Hello! This is my first post in here, been a casual reader of this lovely forum due to time concerns, but as its said: "I favour your undertaking".

First off; apoligies if this has been covered before, but i did check, and i couldnt find a topic for this, if it is, feel free to redirect me and close the thread.

Well my background is a former MT of a guild, joined our servers best horde-guild, which is now our servers top guild, joined as a tank. I was never ever dps post 60 pre-tbc. We have 2 MTs and im now a dps-fury warrior, trying to defend a raidspot in SSC and onwards, and i want some help to do what i can to perfection - but i really didnt build full understanding of all mechanics/tradeoffs pre-tbc and now as a bit underpowered person for dps, i need to get the max out of it

What i would like to ask you good persons of is trinkets:

My stats (unbuffed)

1703 atp
172 hit
27,91% crit in zerker

(been unlucky with armor drops for a loong time now)

without the 2. trinket equipped

- hourglass of the unraveller
Equip: Chance on critical hit to increase your attack power by 300 for 10 secs.
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 32. (1,45%)

is my standard bottom trinket, but i am up for changing that if its shown another combo is better.

- bladefist's breath
Use: Increases attack power by 200 for 15 seconds.
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 26. (1,18%)

- abacus of violent odds
Equip: Increases attack power by 64.
Use: Increases haste rating by 260 (16,49%) for 10 seconds.

Are my two trinkets in inventory, which i am a bit unsure about what to use.

And im considering if I should get

- Bloodlust Brooch
Equip: Increases attack power by 70.
Use: Increases attack power by 270 for 20 seconds.

instead. (got 118 badges and no end in sight, did the Real Heroics in the start and money so its no skin off my teeth)

Ive got my own assumptions, but instead of being shouted down (:P) but i wonder if someone could make a real, solid math-based calculation of what will be the most desirable for drawn-out raiddps. Thank you in advance for any constructive answears.

For me as a DW shammie with less crit (but maybe abit more aps) hourglass is around 50 AP (procs ~once a minute).

The use on bloodlust brooch averages out to 45 static AP. Id use hourglass over the brooch with your AP.

As a sidenote, I am pretty convinced that dragonspine trophy is by far the best PvE dps trinket for a fury warrior once you have really good gear. It will be the drakefang of tbc most likely, grab it while you can.

Agreed on Dragonspine but like DFT, it'll take a DKP bomb to get one from a rogue early on (if you're guild is at that progression level).

I've never had the chance to get a dragonspine or bloodlust brooch yet but I can say that abacus and hourglass aren't bad at all.Although I'm not a master of calculations I don't think that bloodlust brooch would make such a huge difference.As the above poster said more AP,crit and haste of the passive stat + prc trinkets wouldn't hurt. I also think that "proc rate" of hourglass of the unraveller isn't bad at all ,even though I've yet to see it proc twice a minute.I'd say go buy the brooch and test it since you have a lot of badges, you may find it useful, I'm curious about the output of that trinket as well.

I think a lot of this comes down to personal choice - The Hourglass is very useful, but controllable use abilities are very useful in some fights, especially since you can time them to coincide with other abilities, eg death wish. Popping the Abacus at the same time as Death wish gives you extra use out of it (unfortunately you're not an orc, so you can't do the same with blood fury). Still, with the cooldown, you can get away with one usable trinket and still have it up for every death wish. However, deathwish lasts 30seconds so with 2 usable trinkets (say abacus, bladefist's) you can use them consecutively. This is also helpful when you just really need to burst something down (Say Mag phase 1, burning trinkets to get the first add down as quickly as possible should help more than a random proc now and then).

I never got a Drake Fang myself, and I see a lot of people still using them, though I don't know if it's worth the effort getting it. Particularly since the Solarian trinket (+60ap to battleshout) looks like it will be the DPS warrior's passive trinket of choice (In a full melee group, eg. warrior/rogue/rogue/feral druid/enh shaman that's effectively +300ap passive from a trinket).

However, waiting more than 18 seconds to pop that trinket for deathwish doesnt increase your dps. Most of the time you would better use them as soon as they cooldown; which is what a 'chance on hit' trinket automatically does for you.

Abacus and dragonspine should be the better ones in comparison; simply because they scale with dps while the others doesnt. Their value increases as gear upgrades, meaning at some point blizz will nerf them.

My mathcraft may be wildly inaccurate, but I am going to take a stab at the theoretical DPS for each trinket.

Assuming you gain 2.77 DPS per every 14 AP with Dual Wield Specialization before Improved Berserker, using BT and WW each cooldown, or 0.19 DPS per AP.

Bloodlust Brooch would produce a 21 (24) DPS boost.

The Hourglass at worst with one PPM would be around a 9.5 (10.45) DPS increase, (double if you can proc it twice in a minute with no overwriting) not even factoring in the 1.4% crit.

Assuming the Dragonspine has an uptime of 20 seconds per minute, that's an increase of 6.85% haste. Since haste only affects white attacks, which for arguments sake make up 50% of your overall damage, you would have to be sitting at around 800 DPS to get a higher DPS than what the Brooch gives. That is of course before factoring in the boost in rage generation.

The Abacus comes out to a flat 12.16 (13.38) DPS boost before the average 1.4% haste. Will that 1.4% haste end up doing much more than 10 extra DPS if that when you factor in rage? Using the Dragonspine example, the 1.4% haste @ 800 DPS would be an increase of 5.6 DPS.

Again, that is what I came up with and could be terribly wrong, but then if that's the case, I am sure someone much better at math will produce much more accurate results for us to see.

With hit rating I have found that it is usually a matter of opinion. I personally run +14% atm (with talent). I wont go over 15%. You usually wont need to stack hit since the only really good fury items have it anyways, and there are actually some decent options out there for hit. 2p doomplate is a very important part of my gear setup.
Crit is your (arguably) most important stat after hit. 30% is a nice sweet spot, but the higher you get, the higher your flurry uptime and coincidentally, your damage. The only concern comes from aggro since wars have no way of dropping it. AP doesnt makes as big of an impact. General trade off if I recall correctly is 40ap ~ 1crit.

For trinkets I would highly reccomdend Dragonspine Trophy. I got the guild first myself and yes I had to pointbomb the hell out of it; which I actually dont mind since dps wars dont really have any bidding competition for most things ^_^. But the trinket is nothing short of amazing.
Bloodlust Brooch is nice, however many people perfer the Abacus or Hourglass. I am currently using Hourglass in my 2nd slot having gotten neither Abacus or Bloodlust yet, I havent tested them.

I'll post my profile later since I cant access it from work I dont have the link; I'm pretty well geared; slots are Epics + a few blues I havent managed to replace yet (belt, glove, shoulders) and Doomplate Legs/Chest. My guild has killed Mag and is working on resist gear for Hydross, unwilling to do any other bosses first in SSC. In raids such as Gruul, I keep top 1-2 melee dps on meters every raid; only people who keep me from the top period are destruction pot popping warlocks.

The only problem I have run into with raiding is the lack of threat reduction. Now this doesn't generally bother me since I have played a dps warrior since BWL, it is easy for me to scale back when needed; just because you have rage doesn't mean you need to spend it; the only fights that I generally die due to aggro from are Gruul when he bugs out and decides not to HS the OT until he is at 40% and theres no way I will be below the OT's threat, and Maulgar when he drops aggro for his charge and eats 15k damage in executes. Our raid leader doesnt understand the fact that wars can scale back damage to deal with aggro and so tries to sit me on alot of raids because he doesnt want me to just scale back damage and he takes a rouge who does 200dps less. Hope yours isnt as simple-minded.
Or just put a Shaman in the MT group for WF since Alliance hasnt figured out how to do that yet.

Where does the Icon of Unyielding Courage fit in?

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28121#M0z

It seems it should be better since armor reduction scales in the same way haste does for white attacks, but affects white and yellow damage. Or do mobs have no armor to speak of after 5xsunder and FF?

I would think it would still work well, even Aran who has crap for armor takes more damage if expose or sunderx5 is on, the question is how much damage would -600 armor translate into, esp on a use effect. The +30 Hit Rating is nice too. I'd love one to test and play with but Heroic Blood Furnace is... not fun to say the least (especially for a dps warrior to fit into the group).

I know I can, my guild doesnt understand however, most of them are aggro-whores due to playing Alliance all the time; its the whole "LFG Need tank- /t tank are you prot?" deal.
I actually had one of them try to tell me how much less damage I would take if I was full prot instead of my 4/42/15 spec. That and I've realized that Alliance have no clue how to min/max. I laughed sadly when I saw a group that consisted of: Shadowpriest, 2 Rogues, Hunter and a Feral Druid but no Warrior; and a group with 2 Mages, Lock, Warrior, and Enhancement Shaman in the same raid.

Sometimes I regret having gone back to my Alliance toon after raiding horde-side.
The rogue CL also thinks that GoA +Poisons is better than windfury for a combat roguex2, warrior, sham, druid group... =(