I did a search around the forums here and the WoW warrior forums, and have not been able to find anyone who has run numbers on tanks, threat, and + hit. The reason I ask is I noticed a significant increase in the number of dodges and parries I was getting after I dropped about 40ish hit to 15 or so.

To put it more simply, is there a sweet spot so to speak on trying for hit, or is it not significant enough to try to stack?

You will always experience dodge and parry, regardless of your +hit.

+ Hit rating for Warrior Tanks

also you might peruse:
[Tanks] Threat Per Second Considerations
[Warrior] AP and threat generation
[Warrior] Threat gen tips

Well it wasn't just dodge and parry, but misses as well, which I know for a fact are at least partially determined by hit, and I thought someone told me hit has something to do with dodges and parries as well.

Well, +Hit doesn't affect your chances to be Parried/Dodged. It only changes your missrate.
Against a boss I believe it's 5.6% chance to miss white damage and 8.6% to miss specials (Based on Speculation)

I appreciate the links. The first one has some good stuff, I saw it before, I was hoping for something with a bit more detail as I have seen in some of the dps threads. Such as:

Each pt of hit rating or percentage increases threat by X. Knowing what I need to not miss is nice, but I'm not sure how significant the missing is to my threat generation, and that's what I'm not finding. I might have been a bit unclear before...no caffenine in the brain ftl.

Long story short - in general warrior threat is not scaling, the reason for this is that warriors are the backbone of the game pve design - its much easier to design other classes scaling based on a nonscaling class. Most of our skills have fixed threat and the ones that at first glimpse scale are not scaling at all (Devastate, Shield Slam, Heroic Strike, White Hits). The latter are based on stats like attack power or shield block value which sadly is not scaling simply because Strength gained from gear is not increasing as we gain superior Tiers (i.e. Tier6 has much less Str than Tier5 and about the same shield block value). At the same time raid buffs are also not scaling - Windfury or Strentgh totems remain the same, so are the minor threat buffs from GotW and the like. Pots are also static buff and for good or bad soon (in 2.10) they will be out of the equasion.

The above leaves you with only a few options to increase your threat.
1. Main hand weapon - its base dps actually increases your threat as white damage is a substantial part of a warrior tank threat (if you bother to do a small research you will see that each dungeon preTBC or in TBC has 1 tank itemised main hand that offers ~5-10 mroe dps). Upgrading your MH wep upgrades your threat generation.

2. Hit rating - since you can not affect the capabilities of bosses to parry/dodge your attacks (unless with +weapon skill rating which is rarely seen on tank gear or at least not in sufficient quantities) or the speed at which you deploy white hits/specials (due to cooldowns and swing timer, unless you are using haste proc items) your only option is to affect the miss rate. Less Miss = more rage and more specials landed = more threat. Blizzard's way of itemising tank gear so far has been to introduce +hit tank items when the raid dps reaches the tank's threat limits (at least based on their own internal testing bla bla). With gems you can turn the tide in your favour.

3. Swapping tank gear with "dps" gear that provides +hit/ap/str.

To conclude - if you have access to tank items with + hit then use them. Socketing +hit gems also helps however you yourself will have to determine where is the line between +hit/stamina/avoidance since thats more of a personal choice based on your style.

To Kinkaid and Highfather:

Thanks alot, that's alot more of what I was talking about. So ideally (not really happening with present itemization), having +weapon skill and a decent amount of +hit (seems like 5-8% is somewhat reasonable) is the way to go.

That would seem to make a weapon like Mallet of the Tides off Lurker a bit more interesting then. Now Highfather, you say in regards to weapon skill, that there doesn't seem to be enough to make a difference, at what point would it?

Previously when +weapon skill used to affect glancing blows (reducing the dmg penalty thus increasing your rage gain and white dmg threat) it was perhaps the most valued item stat for tanks since with around 10 wep skill you could totally negate the effect of glancing blows (and that was doable especially for human tanks and half way for orc ones).

Currently +wep skill does not affect glancing blows (sadly but next patch they're reduced almost double) but it still acts as a reverse defense meaning that each point of weapon skill above your base pool (350) decreases your target's chance to dodge/parry/block your attacks against it by 0.04%. Blizzard stated that each point of wep skill also gives you a +0.20% chance to hit vs targets above your lvl.

As it is +wep skill is still a valuable tank stat however your question "at what point would it make a difference" should be answered with "think of it as extra +hit". There is simply not enough +wep skill on the currently available tank items that would reduce the boss avoidance rate by even 1% so its effect outside hit chance is too marginal to be considered.

ok, thanks

It seems very odd to me that highfather would claim that warriors don't scale. I assume this is threatwise only? Now that druids/paladins are (supposedly) MT-capable classes, wouldn't that mean that warriors would become obsolete?

I don't think this is the case, and so I'm dubious about the claim that warriors don't scale. My understanding of devastate (et al.) threat is that it has a flat BONUS, not a flat threat value. Ie, a 300 damage devastate deals 300 + 400 bonus threat, 700 total. A 350 hit deals 350+400= 750 threat. Same for heroic strike etc.

Druid attacks used to be different but were changed to flat bonuses as well. To be fair, weapon skill is much more available to druids than it is warriors (earthwarden, several dps leggings, a dps ring), but that alone isn't going to scale long term. I don't have much personal experience with paladin tanking, but theirs should be the only one that multiplies with the +90% holy damage threat. +1 spell damage equals +1.9 threat.

On theory Devastate (and some other skills mentioned above) do scale but on practice the scale is little no none because as tank gear gets better our str/ap remains the same and yes I am talking threatwise only since that was the subject of the topic. As for warriors being obsolete - that will not happen, in the past when our nonscaling threat needed to catch up with the raid dps upgrade Blizzard simply threw in AQ20 the higher ranks books of our most used tank skills (and some more attack power) and some +hit gear in Naxx. That's their solution of keeping the static threat of warriros uptodate with the raid dps upgrade and they will do it again - rank 11 Heroic strike i.e. has been known to exist as a book and will be implemented when the needed of it arises.

Couldnt agree more. +hit is progressively appearing on tank items through SSC but still cant top off 6% without using gems. As it is now warrior threat is sufficient and we should focus on our survival/mana efficiency till there's need for more tps (seeing as how current tailored dps sets are on par with T6 I think that will be at elast during Black Temple encounters).

I see lots of dpsers both in my raids and on this board saying they hold back on dps...so more threat i think is still an issue.

Right but instead of a tanking wearing sub par tanking gear, you can have your Druids and Priests and Shaman to support the tanks TPS through liberal use of ES, PoM and LB.

Not to mention a lot of guilds ignore WF for the MT these days.

Ya, my shamans keep wanting to give me grace of air.

Shammy's atm are obsessed with their own dps to worry about group cohesion. Instead of taking one for the team the standard response is along the lines of "suck it up" or some such nonsense.

Its just another symptom of people forgetting that instancing is a team sport and not everyone can be the star player.

/end ragehumping

There are several excellent items in SSC which help with this, notably freyed tether of the drowned and the mallet of the tides.

However, in general, the miss/parry/dodge rate is obscenely high considering how easy it is for casters to stack hit gear. When your warlocks have +1500 spelldamage, there is almost no way you can stay ahead of them even if all your hits are landing, so they have little choice but to hold back.

Really, what they need to do is make devastate scale better at least in threat generation. Changing revenge to a damage based attack is interesting, but im not sure how much the threat gen will change. I don't understand the crit threat mechanics well enough to judge if this change is equal or better than before. If anyone more knowledgable could enlighten me, please do.

You can't crit a fixed threat value, you can crit damage. So the revenge change is a positive one which should net a bit more TPS (not a ton considering how low warrior crit usually is in tanking gear).

There needs to be a stat that isn't weapon skill which just reduces mob avoidance rates. Its such a huge threat hose. Take a mob like Morogrim which in my experience parries significantly more than anything. Combined with the melee slow from Tidal Wave you take quite a TPS hit when HS takes 6 seconds to connect, and he parries like crazy, and there is really no way to counter this. The biggest problem is while we do scale with gear and we do generate more threat via higher hit, higher str, higher agi, its really not enough to counter the natural rage reduction you get from getting better avoidance stats and armor. There really doesn't seem to be a great solution for this either besides avoiding picking up items with higher avoidance, which is counter intuitive - as a tank, taking less damage should be a positive, but this is just how the game is.

I think the implication that highfather is getting at is this is what is intended. Some classes will be threat bound, some will be mana bound, some will be killed. This does not mean there is anything wrong with the system OR your tanking, just intentional design on blizzard's part.

Blizzard have stated that they want threat management to be a larger part of the game than it had been up to TBC launch. I don't think we'll ever get back to the stage where dps classes could maximize dps with almost total abandon because they had little chance of ever exceeding the threat generated by a fully decked Warrior.

We are seeing the beginnings of this now. Warlocks especially can easily exceed a tank threat, especially as current gear progression does not allow the MT to stack dps gear to increase threat and at the same time have enough mitigation/avoidance to stay alive without giving their healers real issues. As a Feral tank my constant headache is balancing gear to maximize survivability and at the same time have enough DPS/TPS to allow the raid dps to beat enrage or other hard-coded encounter limits. With respect to the topic, in some encounters (especially if I need to build threat rapidly and reliably) I will often sacrifice tanking stats for +hit and let the healers suck it up :P

Personaly i wouldnt sacrifice all the stam to obtain 5% hit, i already sit at about 800-1000 TPS in rage rich encounters.

Thats quite strange, i feel the other way.

As a druid, one of my fundamental damage mitigation stats also provides me with critchance (Agility). I feel my threat is scaling quite well, and 5 mans where rage is limited is the only place i lose agro from time to time. In raids where my rage is pretty much unlimited and im using Mangle, Lacerate and Maul to their full extend, i can keep agro from mages who likes to display their 2.5k non-crit fireballs. This is without salvation mind you, if we have a paladin to buff Salvation i keep agro from anything.

Im quite content with druid agro generation at the moment and my DPSers usually go all out from the start. Im even taking agro of our maintank often when offtanking by simple using Mangle and lacerate. Im using no +hit gear for tanking myself.