[Warrior] Tanking TPS sheet.

Punscho · 05/03/07, 4:26 AM

After seeing rather many threads about different parts of warrior tanking and TPS I decided to release my little project. We've seen many DPS sheets but this is a TPS sheet for us walking tin cans. This is where you should look if you are interested in how hit, crit, ap, block value, weapon skill, expertise, buffs, slow/fast weapons, talents, enchants, devastate and so on influence your TPS.

The threatdown! Beta 4

OpenOffice 2.0: Free file hosting by Savefile.com
Excel XP/2000: Free file hosting by Savefile.com
Excel 95: Free file hosting by Savefile.com

Major changes for this release:

Changed to the new windfury implementation (only white swings/on next ability).
Added the new weapon skill theory.
Added haste rating.
Merged the devastate and sunder armor cycles and added Devastate as a talent.

Upcoming PTR release:
Expertise.
Tactical mastery and the MS/BT change.

Newer version I'm not actually in charge of later in this post:
[Warrior] Tanking TPS sheet.

◊ Thecrowbar · 05/03/07, 4:57 AM

Originally Posted by Punscho

After seeing rather many threads about different parts of warrior tanking and TPS I decided to release my little project. We've seen many DPS sheets and this is a TPS sheet for us walking tin cans.

The problem is just that I don't have a _good_ place to host it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?7mjnxrumoym

I've tried to include enough stuff for most people but I have of course missed some things. Please be nice this first version and keep the feedback coming.

Had a quick run through it and it looks really nice.

I'll have a better look through it all later as I have to be off now, but the one thing I noticed is you have no option for Cruelty in the talent section.

jayowen · 05/03/07, 10:30 AM

I'll have a better look through it all later as I have to be off now, but the one thing I noticed is you have no option for Cruelty in the talent section.

Well, there's really no need since you fill in your crit value anyway.

◊ Thecrowbar · 05/03/07, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by jayowen

Well, there's really no need since you fill in your crit value anyway.

I filled in my crit value and it added 5 to it, so I guess it always assumes Cruelty.

Suesse · 05/03/07, 12:31 PM

I assume this is some staroffice black magic? Can this be opened on Excel easily?

Edit: It downloaded quick enough. I'm good.

Suesse · 05/03/07, 1:52 PM

One thing that would be nice would be a listing of how each stat effects each cycle. For example, for a 2 devastate, shield slam, revenge, full heroic strike cycle
1 block value gives: W tps
1 hit rating gives: X tps
1 crit rating gives: Y tps
1 ap gives: Z tps
This type of info is useful for sites like lootzor or mods like pawn.
Of course, you can also do this by incrementing each stat and noting the tps difference.

◊ Twid · 05/03/07, 2:08 PM

Is anyone able to get this to run in Excel? I shouldn't really install extraneous software here at work.

Asmik · 05/03/07, 2:50 PM

I'm very interested as well, but excel / google spreadsheet available only, any chance of getting a version in either?

jayowen · 05/03/07, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by Thecrowbar

I filled in my crit value and it added 5 to it, so I guess it always assumes Cruelty.

Perhaps you have lotp set to 1 in the buffs section. The character sheet already takes cruelty into account, I see no reason for the spreadsheet to do so as well.

• mutagen · 05/03/07, 6:12 PM

I removed links to ancient versions of spreadsheets from a year ago.

Zamaar · 05/03/07, 6:18 PM

The Excel version has all the dmg values show as #NA

Btw, I saw cycles going up to 7 secs, shouldn't cycles be at a maximum of 5-6 secs (untill revenge / shield slam up again)?

Joy · 05/03/07, 6:37 PM

Perhaps he is adjusting for reasonable latency

Punscho · 05/03/07, 7:07 PM

Thanks for the interest, I'll just add an Excel version (exporting from OO) and there should be no problems I believe.

The thing about cruely is that what you are supposed to insert in the upper left is your unbuffed stats and cruelty is already counted in your char sheet. Then apply the various buffs you wanna play around with.

About the cycles...
I use different cycles, the most common being a 4 skill cycle and 4 global cooldowns amounts to some lag that makes the cycle a little longer in reality. The default in the sheet is 0.1 second which will make the ordinary cycle about 6.4 seconds.

Then there's the 3 skill cycle that just uses 3 skills before going back to shield slam again. That of course will not be subject to a longer cycle due to lag because you just have to fit 3 gcds in 6 seconds and that's easy. At most just minor lag between cycles.

Revenge is 5 second cooldown but if you want to use all available time for skills you'll probably end up using it about every 6 second. If you want a longer cycle where you fit revenges every 5 second then please describe it so I can add it.

About the TPS per stat point thinking that will be added in the future but it's quite tedious to add so I wanted to know if people were interested before starting on that. It's work in progress.

◊ Twid · 05/03/07, 7:14 PM

I'm having issues getting the spreadsheet to work on my work machine. Is it able to handle comparisons between cycles? ie: a SS/Rev/Dev with 200 ms latency versus a SS/Rev/Dev/Dev with 200 ms latency, where the latter cycle has SS off cooldown briefly each rotation.

Punscho · 05/03/07, 7:33 PM

Originally Posted by Twid

I'm having issues getting the spreadsheet to work on my work machine. Is it able to handle comparisons between cycles? ie: a SS/Rev/Dev with 200 ms latency versus a SS/Rev/Dev/Dev with 200 ms latency, where the latter cycle has SS off cooldown briefly each rotation.

Yes, see the "4 skill cycle: ss, rev, dev, dev + variable hs" and compare it to the "3 skill cycle: ss, rev, dev + variable hs". Change the Lag parameter to 0.2.

"Variable hs" means a variable number of heroic strikes per cycle, so you can state approximately how many heroic strikes per cycle you deal, and the other swings will be counted as normal white damage. Change the number in the gray box next to "Heroic strike". You could of course set it to 0 aswell.

"Full hs" means full heropic strike usage and is there for reference since it's pretty hard keeping ALL swings heroic. The top cycles use full heroic.

I've been playing around with this for a couple of weeks so it's no trouble for me but it could really use a cleanup for readability, I know.

Joy · 05/03/07, 7:46 PM

Out of interest would throwing the MT with dps oriented group and giving him bloodlust be quite a dramatic TPS increase?
Faster heroics and a shorter GCD for 45s would be a pretty nice threat buffer against V E fiends.

Zephieus · 05/03/07, 8:06 PM

Is there any way you can add in the threat modifier for the +2% threat enchant to gloves? Oh and great job on the spreadsheet man, its looking good. ^^

Asmik · 05/03/07, 8:43 PM

Thanks for the multiple formats! Very nice tool, nice to see where i can squeeze out another 50-100 tps

my locks/spriests will love this

Nakilos · 05/03/07, 9:02 PM

Originally Posted by Joy

Out of interest would throwing the MT with dps oriented group and giving him bloodlust be quite a dramatic TPS increase?
Faster heroics and a shorter GCD for 45s would be a pretty nice threat buffer against V E fiends.

It is, but if possible I think its better to use Heroism for dps exclusive groups. Shaman can always be swapped before/after to help keep up TPS anyway.

Thelyna · 05/03/07, 10:06 PM

Nakilos - if your DPS is threat-capped (which depends on the tank, fight and dps in question), then heroism on the tank to increase threat is a greater raid benefit than Heroism on an individual group (actually, if *all* your dps is threat-capped, then Heroism is a null benefit in a dps group).

Nakilos · 05/03/07, 10:37 PM

If your DPS is threat capped, heroism won't make the difference in terms of TPS over the entire fight. Its a very nice short term boost, but it doesn't put you leaps and bounds ahead.

Say Void Reaver for example. Much better using Heroism early on your dps groups than on your tanks, they are just going to lose the benefit from it pretty quickly.

zork · 05/04/07, 5:00 AM

Nice calc, to bad rage is limited. Your tps can only be as high as you got enough rage to spam. Your rage will be always limited even in 25man content.

When Thunderfury comes into play things can get tricky. Devastate can proc TF, Sunder does not.

What i could not find out. Is the mob you fight fully sundered?

What could be interesting to know tps wise...is it optimal to use revenge prior SS and delay every special ~0,5sec+lag. or to use after every ss and so every 6seconds. (revenge has 5sec cd)

Larsiak · 05/04/07, 10:29 AM

First of all: Nice Work.

I had a look on the google spreadsheet version.

I've noticed that you use "(430+SBV)*0.9" to calculate the raw damage of shield slam. (SBV= shield block value)

According to this sources (wow-europe.com -> Shield Mastery talent explained and worldofwarcraft.com -> Fortifications: post #7) shield mastery and 1h mastery both affect the damage of shield slam.

Perhaps you should include an option for shield mastery X/3, and edit the formula.

Imo "(430+SBV*1.X)*1.1*0.9" is correct. (with 1h mastery 5/5 of course)

Njial · 05/04/07, 11:35 AM

Given that impale will increase shield slam crits significantly, do you think that this spec would be worth considering for the additional threat?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=TA0czhbZZ0EtoIMzcxst

Suesse · 05/04/07, 11:39 AM

It gives a 10% increase in damage of your special attack crits (shield slam, heroic strike, devastate, revenge*), but decreases your crit rate by 5% by not having cruelty. Without cruelty, my crit rate is pretty bad, honestly. I guess the value of this spec depends on gear.

One interesting change is revenge, since it will crit for 1k in 2.1.0, it may give this spec a little more value.

Also, I like not having deep wounds.

But I suppose, it would be worthwhile to at least get support for this spec in the spreadsheet.