Punscho

Anyone done good testing on the resist-rate of thunderclap? It's feels pretty high but I don't have a good enough data set to determine that. If it is all spell mechanics it's pretty evil since it's an important skill and warrior gear isn't exactly full of spell hit.

 

Stormheart

On bosses, I'd say Tclap is in the range of 20% resist. Hydross in particular seems to have a high resistance to it.

It can occasionally be a problem, but, in general I don't seem to have trouble keeping it up.

 

zork

TC costs you a global cooldown.
if you are the MT in the raid and need to cast it...thats a nogo imo. to many resists, to many global cooldowns spent for nothing.
Get atleast one fury warrior doing all the demoshout/thunderclap stuff if you don't have/use Thunderfury.

RothUI Download - Tank Guide - Avoidance Calc - Threat Calc - Rothar - darkmasters.de

 

zork

i updated my threat calc for patch 2.1.0
http://threat_calc.darkmasters.de/

warrior tps is very low atm. to bad :/

biggest bump to not loose aggro is salvation from paladins

RothUI Download - Tank Guide - Avoidance Calc - Threat Calc - Rothar - darkmasters.de

 

Zurgat

iirc, it was mentioned earlier that flametongue on the maintank is "really" bad, and potentially suicide.
spell enchants like this cause you to put your shield on your back when it casts, thus lowering your block and opening you to crushing blows for a brief period.

also, hm. heroic strike is a yellow attack and doesn't proc windfury.
if you're constantly rage dumping you won't be doing much white attacks as a maintank, thus not getting any windfury procs.

could be worth taking into consideration.

 

Hoonboof

Apparently the shield bug was fixed this patch. When did Windfury Totem stop proccing on Yellow attacks (I've been prot for a good while so I don't normally get Windfury)?

:goon2:

 

Zurgat

iirc 2.0.10, but might have been earlier.
They stopped WF proccing from normal instant attacks, and changed ( normalized ) it to only proc from white attacks.
it warrants some testing though.

 

zork

Heroic is a next melee attack, it would surprise me if it doesnt proc windfury.

RothUI Download - Tank Guide - Avoidance Calc - Threat Calc - Rothar - darkmasters.de

 

Zurgat

it is next melee attack indeed, but it replaces the white attack with a yellow one iirc.
anyway, i think some ingame testing would be welcome.

 

Dots

And where exactly did you get this information?
There was supposed to be a WF nerf at some point but it got canceled. I'm pretty sure it still procs on all instants.

 

Zurgat

hm, would love to see some combatlogs for either of these 2 issues then.
- Does WF still proc from instants ?
- Does WF proc from heroic strikes ?

 

Punscho

This thread and sheet is for a good TPS estimate and more importantly the impact of various stats and buffs on your TPS. It's all about mechanics, it's not a tanking guide. That said, I appreciate all input, although some of you could put a greater effort into providing sources for your claims :-)

The TC resist rate seems pretty bad, but for correct modeling I need to know _exactly_ how bad it is. It's probably counted just like the caster classes spells, but I'd like to confirm that.

The flametongue totem may have been subject to the "shield block bug" (although I never saw anything confirming that) but it was just a matter of time before they fixed that bug, making FTT combined with GoA an interesting alternative on bosses where a little more avoidance is in place. But just like TC, I'd like to know the proper resist mechanics.

Windfury not proccing on instants or specials sound just like an old rumour to me. It seemed to proc just as much as before yesterday on my Karazhan run (I hs/cleave quite a lot and would've noticed I think). Fortunately (since this is about research, not guessing), I saved the combat log for the whole run and will analyze it within a couple of days, maybe even tonight.

If you do wanna help with the TC/FT mechanics, start logging your raids and note potential extra spellhit (draeneis, auras, totems, debuffs) and then just rip out all your attacks vs confirmed level 73 to make a sample.

 

◊ Xerophyte

Nice tool this; now I can safely stop arguing with myself about at what level of rage gain its worth it to swap from SA + HS to Dev + slightly fewer HS (answer: as soon as I can Dev every GC), which is something I've been meaning to theorycraft for ages but never got around to. Thanks!

Anyhoo, a quibble and a suggestion:

- Heroic Strike has it's hidden rage cost modeled in the efficiency calculations, which is great. It also has its hidden rage cost modeled when when checking cycle rps demand, which is a bit less great, really. A full HS cycle doesn't actually require more rage gained from damage taken the more AP you have.
- Relatedly, if you fix the above by removing the hidden rps on HS but keeping the negative rps from autoattacks in the cycle calculations then please consider adding a conversion of rps numbers to incoming dps required for maintaining that cycle. Wowwiki's Rage article claims we gain 1 rage per 109.88 damage taken; they may possibly be right.

 

Punscho

Yeah, you're right since the missed out rage from no white damage already is counted when you replace it by heroics in the cycle. Thanks.

I've been meaning to add the minimum incoming DPS to maintain the cycle but I've been quite busy at my new job. I'll add it to the next version. Cheers.

 

Borodin

Warrior Threat is top of my interest list right now so I love this sheet as it means I don't have to create my own (I did a VERY brief version of this and was dreading having to factor in - well - everything!)

Anyway one problem thing I noticed is the for Stats section. For the stat scores "From Character Screen" you forget that the Strength shown on our "Base Stats" already includes the modifer from Vitality. So when I enter my Strength and then indicate that I have Vitality 5/5 it artificially boosts my Strength by another 10%.

Obviously I can get around this by not ticking Vitality but rather I suggest the sheet is modified to accommodate this.

Anyway great work so far!

 

nfw

Since TC is a spell that does physical damage (going by how often it crits), would 17% miss rate against level 73s be a good starting point for modeling?

 

Punscho

Borodin: I specifically though about this when I did the sheet, may I suggest you check if you have BoK, MoTW or SoE totem checked? I also does work correctly when I toy with the parameters right now.

nfw: I'm leaning against base spellmiss since it can be resisted and seems to resist/miss alot more than regular white/yellow. It takes a long time to get a decent amount of TC data becuase of the none-spammable nature of the skill so any parsing from you guys would be fine, just make sure you don't have a draenei or someone else with a spellhit aura (totem) in your group to corrupt the data.

 

nfw

Ok, from the only WWS I have right now, a night of Gruul attempts with no Draenei (I went back to horde).

Tank #1 had 53 TC landed, 7 resisted
Tank #2 had 52 TC landed, 8 resisted

The logs include trash mobs, so resist against Gruul himself would be higher.

 

rakkarage

 

Executor_5

Unless you're wearing +spell hit gear, vs. a level 73 raid boss you'll have a 17% resist rate on your spells (ie. thunderclap/demoralizing shout/taunt/challenging shout).

 

Punscho

You say 17% but do you have numbers to back that up?
Yes we believe it's normal spell mechanics but numbers confirming that is what we're looking for.

 

Evolve

if I can get my hands on the file (cant seem to download it atm) I can host it on my webserver if you want to

 

galzohar

105 TCs with 15 resisted means you can estimate the resist rate as 14.2%+-3.6%, which isn't even close to ruling out 17% resist rate from spells, but also doesn't really fit as much as it should. However with 3.6% estimated error (25% relative error) you defintiely want a bigger sample to decide wether or not it's 17% resist or not.

All in all I bet if it's not melee hit chance (and it almost definitely rules out using melee hit chance with slightly over 95% certainity if I'm not wrong about the 8% melee miss rate on bosses with no +hit although I didn't really search for it), so what can it be other than spell miss chance?

EDIT: Please don't include trash in your counts, it totally fucks up the data and explains why it was only 14.2% resist. But again a 105 sample size is just not enough to show anything with extreme certainity even if you did only do it on grul, but of course we can always add it up with other people's measurements as long as you only parse boss info.

 

D4vE

Thunderclap is also affected by silence effects, thus it is very likely it is handled as a "spell" and that normal spell resist rates are applied.

Might be a good idea to change thunderclap to a physical attack, or even better, let melee hit rating affect taunts and thunderclap as well, because i really don't see fitting spell hit gear in my tank gear as soon as it should matter (4 horsemen anyone?).

 

ChronoKill

Excellent Spreadsheet. However, I may have found a bug. In column W, where threat from damage is calculated, it isn't modified by the character's hit value (cell AB22).
In that case, it seems that the damage from threat is being counted even if the move would have missed.
That would over-estimate for moves that do damage as well, like heroic strike or devastate.