Punscho

Where it says threat from damage the first column (Mit dmg) is the skills base average damage including armor. Meaning the average noncrit. The next column (Avg dmg) is derived from the detailed section and is the true average damage counting all outcomes (dodge, parry, crit, hit, miss, block). The final column is the true average times the threat multiplier.

If you change the hit parameter you will see that the first column doesn't change, but the second and third does since the detailed section accounts for hit.

 

Llilyth

Does anyone have any information on Battle Rush's effect on TPS? Battle Rush is the 4pc Destroyer Armor (Warrior tanking T5) set bonus.

 

◊ Twid

Apparently it's a 7% chance according to thottbot, so with an estimated attack of 1 every 2 seconds (barring the buff being refreshed), it would have a 35% uptime. I'm absolutely certain the math could be refined, especially since I don't know if there is an internal cooldown or not.

The 35% uptime value is from 7 procs of 10 seconds, every 100 swings, or 200 seconds. This would be 70 seconds / 200 seconds uptime, or 35%.

35% of 200 haste rating would be an average of 6.66% haste. So you would have your heroic strike tps be increased from 372 (unmodified by talents) threat per swing, to 398 threat per swing. In addition, your white tps increases from the haste, fueling more rage per second.

Take this math with a grain of salt, please. I pulled the threat value from wowwiki, at 176 damage + 196 threat, and the haste rating conversion from wowwiki as well. If this gets debunked, I'll summarily destroy this post to avoid confusion.

[13:45] <kenlyric> goddammit, I wish google news had a "only real news" alert.
[13:45] <Kalman> I wish journalists had one.

On the topic of Knight Rider:
<Vontre> What is a KITT?
<Nite_Moogle> jesus christ vontre were you in a test tube until 1995?

 

Kiklion

your uptime is probably far off as it requires being hit. So being hit once every 2 seconds is.... really bad unless they attack fast. parry/dodge decrease chance to proc.

 

Nyfe

So using the assumptions in Twid's post would I be correct by saying the bonus essentially increases the attack speed of your weapon by 6.66%? Going by this, I plugged an armory profile into Threadown ( http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Lightning's+Blade&n=Ripxuzi ) and adjusted the speed of King's Defender down to a 1.49. This only yielded a net increase of roughly 20 tps in the 4 skill rotation of SS, Rev, Dev, Dev + Full Hs which supposidly takes into account both white damage and the increased frequency of heroic strike. I must be missing a major component, where did i go wrong here?

 

Punscho

Nyfe: That's because I have not considered haste effects and if you change the weapon speed it only thinks of it as the same dps weapon but with a faster speed, meaning the average damage is lowered. I should get to work on providing haste rating as it now a reality for real tanking gear.

Now if you would like to try out haste rating you should both lower the speed and increase the DPS of the weapon. If you get a 50% haste that means you get to do 50% more attacks per second. This effectively buffs the weapon 50% more dps.

So for king's defender and 6.66% haste that would be buffing the DPS 6.66% to 93.33 and buffing the swings per second from 1/1.6 to 1/1.6*(100%+6,66%), which is 0.63 -> 0.67. Or 1.5 speed. If you change both those parameters you will see that you keep the same average damage of 140. And that's correct right?

Even with that modification the TPS increase is only ~21, or 2,6%. That's reasonable right? Most of your threat is from instant attacks like shield slam, revenge, devastate that does not care about weapon speed.

Edit: Oh it should be slightly higher since changing the speed like that lowers the amount of damage from AP on heroic strike and with haste you keep the unmodified value for determining extra damage. Just like windfury damage should go up more. For comparison, just take the part that's affected by haste (heroic strike) and add 6.66% to it. that should be about 3-3.5%.

 

Turpin

[quote=Twid;418572]
35% of 200 haste rating would be an average of 6.66% haste. So you would have your heroic strike tps be increased from 372 (unmodified by talents) threat per swing, to 398 threat per swing. In addition, your white tps increases from the haste, fueling more rage per second.
QUOTE]


Rage was normalized to base weapon attack speed in TBC. So unfortunately this means that when you are hasted you get less rage per hit than if you had no haste buffs.

 

• Repeek

I apologize if this has already been covered but I couldn't find it in this thread, does the damage a warrior spell reflects count as threat for the warrior?

 

shnookum

Given the choice, would people prefer Mallet of the Tides, or Blazefury in most situations?

Blazefury comes out a fairly clear winner on threat all other things being equal according to the spreadsheet, but what about for mitigation purposes? Is Mallet's additional mitigation via parry reduction worth it for example?

 

Punscho

This would be because the only thing accounted for from weapon skill is +hit since the other perks of extra weapon skill aren't quite settled on these forum yet. The blue post on the matter is clearly wrong. We expect it lowers the opponent's chance to dodge/parry/block by some amount. Or just dodge, so dps would gain as much as tanks (they don't get parry from behind).

Check out this thread: [Rogue/Warrior] Weapon Skill Adjustment Discussion

If you have a character with extra weapon skill (like the human bonus and/or the mallet, etc) you could contribute test data. Since these are probably small gains you would need a huge data set to settle anything unless you can get your hands on a very high weapon skill gear set.

 

Ketrew

I've recently been asked to pull dust off my warrior and MT for my guild again and I’ve got a question that I'm sure you folks can help me out with. When I retired my warriors I was using Thunderfury as my tanking weapon. Is this still a great weapon for tanking? Should I be looking to replace it with a Blazefury/Mallet of the Tides/Something else I should be aware of? My guild has SSC on Farm and we are working on The Eye now.

Also, I'd appreciate any advice on your best TPS ability rotation when using a TF.

Your thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated.

 

Ketrew

*removed double post*

 

Meyla

There will be probably lots of speculations about TF but honestly Im very happy with Mallet and I think it's much better tanking weapon (I'm using imp TC with it, it's one debuff on boss when TF gives you two, on Vashj we had problems with too much debuffs on her for example) and when you can get Axe or Sword from bt/mh your TF would go to bank. If you will be unlucky in drops then devastate looks very nice with TF so I guess ss/rev/dev/dev would be best option for you?

 

JamesVZ

Yes, with all the proper modifiers, iirc.

 

Culain

I'm not getting a table to add values too, just a lot of talk on what has been added. I may be brain damaged, but is the link not working?

 

Meyla

You got two pages one with infos and second with values and stuff to add.

 

Zediono

Sorry if this has been answered (I couldn't find this anywhere). I've been wondering about the warrior tank t5 2pc bonus, does the +100 block value buff apply to Shield Slam as well?

 

Feji

Yes it does if I recall correctly, been awhile since I've tanked.

 

Tylerlee

Slightly bemused with Tanking atm, and trying to improve my tps, i use the normal reve, slam, dev, dev +hs filler rotation, but looking through my WWS sheets im seeing alot of misses (parry/dodged).

Ive read on various forums where it advises 59 hit rating to stop misses, but misses arent the entire problem, its dodge/parry. One fight i had 8% of my Revenge "missed" while enother fight was 25%, currently running with 99 hit rating in tanking gear, 6.28% and 358 Mace Skill, is there any way to improve TPS through hit/skill or should i just stop trying to improve it and resign to the fact that no matter what i do, im gonna get dodge/parry/miss an aweful lot?

 

JamesVZ

Should be hit capped at 99 hit rating and 358 skill, iirc, or damn close to it if you aren't. You will get dodged and parried a lot, or at least what seems like a lot. Missing a Shield Slam for whatever reason is always sad times . Beyond that, it's about rage management and timing more than anything -- do you queue that HS now and gamble that you'll have the rage for shield slam when it goes off or do you ride it out and throw something else out there? Shield Slam/Revenge/Devastate/Devastate is just a basic model of what you should be doing, any good tank will tell you that they rarely, if ever, match that cycle.

 

Punscho

According to the latest news from the [Rogue/Warrior] Weapon Skill Adjustment Discussion thread the base miss chance is 9% versus a level 73 mob. Weapon skill above 350 decreases this and your 8 extra points of skill should yield you a missrate of 5.7% I think. Your 99 hit rating cover that so there's nothing else in that department you can do.

Even at max hit you have at least 15% (ballpark) parry/dodge and that's really bad.

The only thing gear wise after hit would be adding block value, since str/ap scales threat really badly.

But there are things your raid can do for you like misdirection, PoM, earth shield and whatnot that counts as your threat. Here's another nice thread on the subject: [Warrior] Sustained TPS / WWSed

Btw, I'm not the only one feeling parry occurs twice as much vs lvl 73 than dodge and block does right?

 

Tylerlee

2 repoorts with 358 skill and 99hit

Tylerlee - WWS

Last weeks attempts on Gorefiend, averaged around 863 tps which is abt 100 or so lower than id like.

Tylerlee - WWS

Without WF this week (Resto shammy had PC issues) was looking at close to 780 tps but been messing with my rotation, changing keybinding, button set ups, so putting it down to a bad day and not being comfortable with the layout. Still learning as were only 2 weeks into tier 6 instances so nows the time to step up. Usisng HS far too much i think, but in between rev and SS if ive got tons of rage (which i usually always have on Teron) im free to get 2 devs and 2 hs before i need to revenge again. Only both S.Priests were having threat issues in last 15% of the fight.

What i am seeing from other tanks on WWS is around 50 or so more dps, is that coming solely from Block Dmg? or is higher level gear adding to that? Do a fair few higher geared tanks get WF all time to increase tps, or just solely gear. my 354 dps on Teron came from having WF. while the next week had 355 with no WF, but a longer fight as it was the kill.

 

◊ Fellwraith

Definitely not. "Each time you use your Shield Block ability, you gain 100 block value against a single attack in the next 6 sec." (emphasis mine)

You don't get 100 block value, you get 100 block value against the next attack. This works with shield mastery, so it's 130 damage blocked with the right talents. It's a nice bonus to have, but it doesn't do anything for threat generation.

 

Exigent

The above poster is incorrect. I use the 'Reinforced Shield' buff all the time while doing dailies to boost my shield slams, particularly down in the Netherwing mines while pulling a half dozen or so mobs at a time and rage isn't an issue. Time it accordingly and you'll notice an increase in your shield slam damage about half of what you'd see if you had the Auto-blocker active.

If I didn't see this so regularly, I would have doubted that it worked as well.

 

s[orc]ery

I have a question that's been bothering me for a while...

Why do most raiding tanks get Improved Sunder? I personally only use it 5 times per fight (less if there are other warriors sundering) and then weave in devastates to refresh the debuff.
It just seems like its not worth the points over something like Improved Heroic Strike, which will save you rage throughout the entire fight, or Imp Blood-rage, which allows you to shield-block+shield slam before the boss even hits you.

Some say that a boss fight is typically a vacuum for infinite rage so imp heroic strike is worthless but it seems like there are only a few fights where rage gen is higher than you can use it, one being Morogrim. Most other fights you can experience long streaks of 0 rage if you're spamming hard enough.