Zaroua

Has anyone done the math on the TPS gained from having expertise?


[Gauntlets of Enforcement] 21 expertise rating
[Brooch of Deftness] 21 expertise rating
[Bracers of the Ancient Phalanx] 22 expertise rating
[The Brutalizer] 21 expertise rating

85 expertise rating, or 21 expertise points (rounded down). Add in an extra 6 points from Defiance and you've negated Dodges/Parries on lvl73 mobs (assuming 5.6% for each?). Or you could remove 1 item from that list and take down the chance of a 73mob to Dodge/Parry to 0.1% for each.

Would using these items be the single best way to increase TPS and reduce insta-gibs from mob Parries?

If a Druid specs Moonkin in Darnassus, do the trainers still laugh at him?

 

Healranktwo

I do believe expertise is single best stat by far atm for a tank with how it works. I do think mobs have a higher chance to parry then dodge though, since I notice mobs parry my attacks far more often then they dodge it.

 

Punscho

My data suggests about double the parry chance for level 73s.

Expertise should be the best stat point by point. 1 expertise (~4 rating) is 0.5% less avoidance. Compare that with 0.5% hit which requires ~8 hit rating. Plus the reduced instagibbing it should come out on top with ease.

 

Punscho

New version finarry.

 

• nilme

Last version does have some errors for me, excel whines about some data lost and half of the sheet is skewed with div/0 errors (excel xp/2k version). I'm using Excel XP

 

Punscho

Heh, probably because OO crashed on me when I tried to export to XML. I don't have Excel myself so I'll just try to export again and upload it and let you test it.

Edit: done.

 

• nilme

Same error again Guess Ill have to install OO

 

Punscho

Strange, OO 1.1 always made working .xls.

I'll try googling for some answers later, soccer @ TV atm.

I added an Excel 95 version aswell hoping it will work. I find it strange the other version doesn't work since I don't use any fancy stuff at all.

 

• nilme

I'm starting to think it has something to do with my computer. Thing is, I used this spreadsheet like 2-3 weeks ago and had no problem.

 

Baraz

I have some #N/A errors when using XP Office myself, so I don't believe it's just your computer there nilme.

 

Isidur

Here is updated my personal version. (4.1)

* 2.3: Expertise change
* 2.3: Hit affects to shouts & thunderclap (still not fully modelled)
* Added Mob specific values. (Extra Parry, see: WoW Forums -> Raid and Dungeon Encounter Update)
* Added TEP calculation (based on first cycle)
* TPR for Thunderclap with no Imp thunderclap fixed

Note: For Orc and Human racial expertise should manually added since there is no weapon information, or put your expertise number in "outside of defensive stance"

Download

 

Borodin

The change to +Hit was for Taunt and Challenging Shout only, not Thunder Clap.

 

galzohar

Leveling weapon skills (from rather low level), I noticed I get a LOT more parries than dodges/misses/glances, which settles well with bosses having more than the "0.2% per level" of extra parry. Nothing new, I know, but then again it was never really proven so I figured taking very low weapon skills would make it clearer that the high parry for bosses is probably correct.
Maybe I'll parse it next time I'm leveling a weapon, although does WWS have any way of tracking the actual weapon skill you had when you landed the attack?

 

Kamgha

#N/A problem is dealing with macros I believe, since when I load this up in OO it asks me about macros and when Enabled it works fine. But I believe macros are disabled in my Office...

Quick thing I wanna link from Satrina's A Guide to Threat from tankspot.com (EvilEmpire is being updated atm)


Devastate/Revenge/HS/SS in the newest version 4.1 seem to be off. I am also unsure whether this is closer to correct or Omen is closer to correct in game as sometimes i can do 1.1-1.2k TPS Sustained vs. this spreadsheet showing myself maxing out under 1k.

Truthfully this spreadsheet is awesome and helped me get my rotation/gear choices up til now and prolly will for the future. Great job on this

 

Punscho

You probably have to tweak the target's armor reduction. There's a thread in this forum that deals with armor values for raidbosses.

Nice work on the update, since I stopped raiding several months ago I'm not that inclined to update it quickly or even that often anymore. Of course I have some thoughts on the update but until I get off my ass and update it myself I should just be quiet right.

 

Draya

Does anyone have any data on boss parry rates? I've been running around with 30 expertise (-7.5% dodge/parry), and I'm still getting the odd parry. Do boss mobs simply have such a high parry rate, or is it impossible to push parry off his combat-table, just like mages are unable to fully push resists off?

 

Borodin

Some Bosses are believed to have as much as 15% Parry chance (WWS has shown this). Quite possible that the base rate for Bosses is 10% though that's me guessing.

 

amethyst

Can't provide source for it, but last figures I saw showed lvl 73 boss parry rate as between 11% and 12% against a lvl 70 tank.

 

Punscho

One theory I'm behind is 6.5% dodge and 13% parry. Pretty consistent with my data and the new data in the [Rogue/Warrior] Weapon Skill Adjustment Discussion thread.

 

Gorekras

Isidur - Thanks for the update, but I think you left out one important change from 2.3: the fact that Imp Sunder now affects Devastate now! So while the cost cell for Devastate (W9) is currently:

[top]15-$B$27*1

it should be changed to:

15-$B$27*1-$B$25

to account for the -(1-3) rage from Imp Sunder. This change makes my RPS for the 4-skill, full HS cycle go from 12.41 down to 11.47 - almost a full rage point per second! Pretty rad.

 

Moriantum

My understanding is daggers are normalized to 1.7 speed for devastate while other are normalized to 2.4, making daggers generate less threat due to lower damage. I recently picked up the umbral shiv for kicks out of ZA, and thought with two 12 stam gems in it that it would be rather nice for tanking besides the loss in threat. I wouldn't use it very often of course, but what about for eating pyros on kael? That extra bit of stam would be nice. So I guess my question is does anyone know how much your TPS would go down using a dagger assuming all other things are equal? Assume my TPS is 1k for arguments sake, how much would a dagger bring it down? Thx for the help.

 

◊ Xerophyte

You could just check the spreadsheet, just need to alter a single value in Q9 (2.4 > 1.7). Barring that, though, posit you have 1400 AP. That's 100 * .5 * .7 = 35 damage/Devastate. Call it 25 average after adjusting for avoidance, crit, armour, etc. You do about 2 Devastates every 7 seconds or so, making the Devastate between daggers & swords about a 7 dps downgrade or roughly in the ballpark of 10 tps. As my assumptions on AP, avoidance, lag and the like were largely taken out of my arse this isn't very precise, but somewhere in that region.

For comparison's sake, 10 tps is about as much as you get from 8 expertise rating, 16 hit rating or 60 block value.

 

Sepulture

My combat logs also show about double parry rates for bosses. Blue indicates that parry instagib mechanics are tweaked to change encounter difficulty, in a similar fashion to crushing blows. I no longer believe blue after the infamous Eurowow Blue fib/flub regarding weapon skill's effect on boss parry rates.

I would love to see a (even anecdotal) list grouped by instance with columns for 1) Boss 2) Does he/she/it crush? 3) Observed Parry rate 4) Does he/she/it hasten auto-attacks after parries? 5) Observed dodge rate.

I need to do combat log parsing by boss, but I don't have access to all of BT/MHJ. I hope someone somewhere thinks that it's worth the pain and suffering, because having that list would rank right up there with knowing real boss AP.

Edit: This ambitious person has the right idea, that's a nice karazhan dodge/parry summary.
[Rogue/Warrior] Weapon Skill Adjustment Discussion

Oh, slight derailment... don't forget to equip this little gem. It's not just for ferals anymore.

[Shapeshifter's Signet]

 

Olon97

I was putting together ranked lists of TPR values for a specific gear set for a theorycraft post and noticed an issue with the estimates of TPR for Heroic Strike and Cleave in this spreadsheet.

Just as the cost cells consider the cost of not having performed a regular hit, the threat considered for TPR should only be the additional threat you've gained over doing nothing at all. Eg. "TPR = (HS Total Threat - Mainhand Total Threat) / Cost"

The changes would be cell X6 to "=(V6-V3)/W6" and cell X7 to "=(V7-V3)/W6".