Druid Threat Generation - Page 2

Boevis · 05/08/07, 2:32 AM

If your risking overcoming the MT as a hurtful tank, then I suggest you direct him to the Warrior threat threads on these forums. The only time I risk passing our MT on Gruul is at the start, I even stand in the stone rain just to build more rage to keep up with him. Though, I do dodge quite a few of the hurtfuls.

constantius · 05/08/07, 3:40 AM

Warriors are not created equal.

One of our tanks, we engaged, and about 45 seconds into the fight, the druid OT suddenly got rocked and died. We went WTF? and then we noticed that he'd passed the MT in threat and suddenly become the new MT. Bad timing, and he died (healers weren't expecting sudden dmg).

His TPS was poor anyway, so we didn't think much of it.

Switched to our regular MT, and on that attempt, the druid OT was pushing 85% of his threat the entire time. The only portion where he came remotely close was the first 15 seconds, before position was stabilized and our MT could get his rotation firmed up.

Still, as an OT, with only the rage from HS, our feral OT was putting out 800+ TPS. That's incredibly impressive. <3 feral OTs.

Athinira · 05/08/07, 4:11 AM

druid threat scaling sounds like an AP issue to me. since druid TPS is directly affected by our damage, i dont see why one would ever stack more +hit compared to more +str/ap. with so many abilities to use in case your main ability misses (maul) with a mangle/lacerate/swipe backup for initial aggro pulling, i would think your problem is your damage output at that point. not to argue that +hit is worthless, but in terms of points, i would still value more +str if i had to choose when we're discussing TPS.

Wrong. +hit is the cheapest and best TPS scaling a druid can get. Loads of our threat comes from innate threat now and not just scaling attacks.
Missed Maul = no innate ~320 threat.
Missed Lacerate = No 285 innate threat
Missed Mangle = I still have nightmares about the times i lose agro because of 3 x Mangle misses in a row. Mangle is damage x 1.5 in threat (damage x 1.3 next patch but damage is getting buffed so no change done) and thats alot of threat

Crit and AP only affects our damage done and their only real TPS scaling is when using Mangle. +hit scales with innate threat from moves including Lacerate. AP is worthless for Lacerate, has reduced effectiveness for Maul and is good for Mangle. Crit is slightly useful for Lacerate (very useful when offtanking though because of primal fury for extra rage), good use for Maul and excellent use for Mangle. +hit is excellent for Lacerate, Maul and Mangle.

And on a final note, +hit provides something which crit and AP doesn't: It makes your initial agro generation more reliable.

Cryect · 05/08/07, 4:13 AM

Originally Posted by Athinira

Wrong. +hit is the cheapest and best TPS scaling a druid can get. Loads of our threat comes from innate threat now and not just scaling attacks.

Well almost right, its weapon skill rating which unfortunately besides Earthwarden there is no tank items for druids with feral combat skill.

Athinira · 05/08/07, 4:29 AM

Originally Posted by Cryect

Well almost right, its weapon skill rating which unfortunately besides Earthwarden there is no tank items for druids with feral combat skill.

Might be true, i sadly can't remember the item budget for weapon skill. Could you possibly link the item budget cost for feral combat skill rating and hitrating?

Boevis · 05/08/07, 4:56 AM

Exactly the same as every other rating. They all cost the 230 that stats cost.

Athinira · 05/08/07, 6:20 AM

Originally Posted by Boevis

Exactly the same as every other rating. They all cost the 230 that stats cost.

Ok so assuming 1 hit rating and 1 feral combat skill rating costs the same.

61.62 feral combat skill rating / 3.9 = 15.8 feral combat skill
61.62 hitrating = 3.9% hit

15.8 * ( 0.04% dodge + 0.04% parry + 0.04% miss ) = 1.896% lesser chance to have your attacks not land, 0.632% lesser chance to have a partial amount of your damage blocked

In addition: 1.58%-2.21% additional chance to achieve a critical strike (it is unknown if the +0.1% crit per weapon skill if the mob is a higher level stacks with the 0.04% innate crit from weapon skill. I will personally assume it does, so we select the 2.21% value).

So total summary:
1.896% chance to land an attack + 2.21% crit (sum of the values are 4.108) vs. 3.9% chance to land an attack. Block is on most fronts negligable (and just for info, a Blocked lacerate still generates threat and applies the debuff)

My personal opinion: While the total stat sum conversion goes 0.2% + block in the favor of weapon skill rating, id still rate hitrating slightly higher once again due to innate threat. This also goes for offtanking where you can offtank behind the mob, reducing the effectiveness of weapon skill when the mob can't parry your attack anymore.