I like improved divine spirit and spec for it myself. I do feel it is very unfortunate that if we want to spec for it we cannot fill all five ranks of empowered healing. I think this is one of the major things that should be changed for the healing priest.

Should combine divine spirit and circle of healing into 1 talent.

Perhaps call it circle of divine spirit healing and when you heal a group with CoH it gives them divine spirit for an hour.

And remove the reagent cost. Pretty sure that would be godly.

I noticed a lot of people throwing out the Spellsurge and +81 healing enchants, but I think there's also a third option.

Sure, there is a new +30 intellect and there is not a new +20 spirit, but in my eyes it is a very viable enchant if you take the effort.

Now, I wouldn't be throwing +20 spirit on any weapon, there are only 3 weapons I can think of that are worth it, and one is a blue. (Staves from Steamvaults, Nightbane and Solarian).

You can easily get 70-95 spirit from a single swappable item (counting kings/racials/talents). Ideally, I weapon swap on times when Blue Dragon is up or when I have my Bangles up (Zero Earrings have dropped for my guild).

On a side note, hopefully in Zul'Aman there is a +30 spirit enchant. I can hope, but I doubt there is. It seems forgotten.


Now, that's over. I am curious, what do people generally rate as the best pieces of T5 to get? I am thinking it will be Head/Chest. I think the shoulders are a disgrace, the Hands and Legs are upgrades over what I have, but I don't think they are big upgrades. (T4 hands and Doomwalker's Legs).

Just curious, but what shoulders do you recommend / use instead, then? (On that note, I tried to check your armory to see what you were using, but it didn't seem to link / work properly, and looking up Starfire of Silvermoon didn't work either... has your info changed perhaps?)

I think the Mantle of the Avatar rocks, personally. I just did a cursory sort by epic cloth shoulders on WoWHead, and given that you can obtain them from Loot Reaver, while the only ilvl-comparable healing cloth items you could choose instead (that I saw) are either PvP or clearly inferior (-20 healing or similar with stat losses to boot)....

Well, yeah. I guess I'm just trying to follow you on that itemization logic, because I myself am working towards figuring out what items I need to focus on upgrading next.

Helm:
I chose [Crown of the Sun] over the T5 Helm - [Cowl of the Avatar]. It's very likely that your guild will probably be beating both those encounters (Vashj and Kael'thelas) within a few weeks of each other. With the Crown of the Sun, I wasn't competing with Warriors and Druids (tanks) for a Helm upgrade. It gave the guild the ability to upgrade the tank gear, but I still had a very comperable (to T5), if not better item, in my opinion.

Shoulders:
The T5 Shoulders - [Mantle of the Avatar] - never dropped for me while we were doing Void Reaver (i.e. they went to other people first). I went from T4 to [Amice of Brilliant Light]. Frankly, even now I can say that there might still be situations where I'd use the T5 shoulders (if I had them), over the Amice of Brilliant Light if I needed to maintain my 2pc bonus. Honestly, in order to keep the T5 bonus around...that's probably one of the better slots to keep for a while, as upgrades are relatively minor even in BT/Hyjal.

Chest:
No brainer...always upgrade the Robes.

Gloves:
I still use T5 Gloves - [Gloves of the Avatar]. There are some good upgrades in BT/Hyjal, however there's really nothing better until then. I'd suggest you try to get these as again, if you are in a situation that really benefits from your 2pc T5 bonus, this is a minor piece to swap in.

Legs:
I traded in the Doomwalker leggings for [Star-Soul Breeches]. I passed on every T5 Legging - [Breeches of the Avatar] - drop as I never really found them a huge upgrade over the Doomwalker leggings and then I picked up the Solarian ones. I used the Solarian legs all the way until Archimonde and the [Leggings of Eternity] IMO, the T5 Leggings are probably one of the weaker slots (provided you can get Solarian's legs). Again, you have the same situation as with the Helm. There is a comeprable, if not better item that is available and prevents you from having to compete with Tanks on gear.

I did a search for Starfire and found a NE Priest over on Kael'thelas. I'm guessing that's you and that you're using [Pauldrons of the Solace-Giver] as your shoulders. Good piece, but you'll find as you progress that you could probably benefit from some stamina in the shoulder slot. I'd strongly encourage you to rethink the T5 shoulders.

Essentially, I'd pick up the Gloves, Shoulders and Chest. That way, when you start acquiring T6 items, you still have the ability to maintain your T5 2pc bonus, but not at the expense of only having the Chest and one other item. The Chest is a huge upgrade, but you'll not want to wear it for a 2pc bonus when you get the option for T6 Chest. The Helm and Leggings are the two areas that have very solid, or even better options throughout SSC/TK. Nevertheless, an upgrade is an upgrade and will help you do your job that much more efficiently and effectively.

Hope this helps.

I was reading through this, and I heard a lot about downranking for priests, but with about 1250-ish healing, should I be doing that yet? And if so, what rank? I do tend to cancel my heals a LOT, is that what I should be looking for? I get kinda screwed for being "bottom of the healing meters", and while i know it's hard to tell the quality of a healer that way, they still tend to go by it if it comes down to replacing a healer. And I think it's due in part to my cancelled heals, as i can't figure out what else it could be on my end besides not casting soon enough.

I didn't play a healer before BC so I didn't get the chance to really play around with downranking, and i'm still trying to figure out the regen models (have about 90 while casting? i think. not enough, imo) :x thanks for any advice

I am in the exact same situation as Kayllaira, having reached 60 in november, and 70 last month (still raiding with my warlock).

Context: non-heroic 5 man instances:
I do use GH2 for heal spamming, and GH7 is on my main bar too.
Usually a renew and the occasional GH2 keeps the tank up on trash (I have 1400ish +heal, 130mp5, so you might want to use GH3), and on bosses I use renew+GH2 when no foreseeable damage is coming. When I know the tank will take some spike damage, I precast GH7 so that he'll be full life shortly after.

My problem in raiding situations (I have done full Kara and Gruul) is that I have to "relearn" the encounter completely: positioning, boss abilities (and how to detect them, and reacting correctly) that impact the tank and my healer (instead of just my warlock).
As long as you're learning, you won't nearly be as effective as an experienced healer.

I suggest you don't refrain from casting too much, and don't be afraid to overheal. I was quite proud of my 20% OH on Gruul (I take/took quite some pride for not OHing too much), but no one was impressed because I did half the healing compared to the others :p

My regen strategy is the following (based on these forums): I have favored the mp5 stat over almost everything else, enchant/gem-wise, as it's more forgiving.
But since I have 3/3 PMC and 2/2WM, I am quite low on stamina (7.5k buffed), I had to put +12sta on my boots and wrists and buy some pvp gear.

The Armory

Don't be afraid to overheal is very good advice. It is quite common for a tank to die because healers are being too cautious with their mana and thus the tank drops dead when his healers all have 90% mana... oops. (Prince phase 2 for example is very bad time to worry about overheal.)

I've always been a healer in raids so I actually feel somewhat helpless on my mage alt (all these people taking damage and I have to... just keep nuking the boss). You definitely need to be aware of where the damage is coming from, who's about to get hit, who needs to be healed now and who can be ignored, when to tunnel vision on your tank and let the DPSers fend for themselves, etc.

Yes. oops. :p I happen to spam flash heal (eek) on the "butler" trash before Moroes, and on Prince phase2. It's a very good time to pop my Violet Eye Pendant ^^

When you come form a DPS background, this is quite a lot of information you need to open your eyes to... =)

Re: overhealing and not being afraid to do it, and especially in regard to mana regen and whatnot.

I think it's important to make sure you clarify why it is you are avoiding overhealing and using cancel-casting as a strategy before you go into a fight. Really, there are two possible reasons:

1) Conserve as much mana as possible
2) Make sure to land heals for as full value as possible

Now, while those two often go hand-in-hand, they are actually very difficult philosophies.

The first philosophy is all about mana regen and avoiding healing when not "needed" to get OO5SR as much as possible for longevity. This is a useful philosophy as an off-healer, or with many healers in a long, paced fight. However, it's also something whoever is coordinating heals should be somewhat directing and taking into consideration. Rotating healers through "regen phases" is an option in some scenarios.

That said, I feel that the second philosophy is generally the safer one. Realistically, it will often -lead- to mana conservation in the long run, but the goal is always to land meaty heals at the best possible time. In this case, overhealing is not really something you should ever care much about. It will happen. The in this case should be maximizing heal efficiency for the sake of tank survivability, not the sake of one's own mana pool.

In regard to ranks, I typically use GH2/GH7 as my primary spells right now. GH2 seems to be good for general raid healing due to efficiency and its current size given my +healing at the moment. I pretty much only use GH7 on MTs, though, because I operate under the 2nd philosophy and am willing to eat some potential overhealing and mana loss to assure I'm landing the biggest heals possible as often as possible when they are needed the most.

I have the Masquerade Gown and the Spirit buff procs so frequently is crazy. People told me that it has proc'd when they were making pots.

-MayheM

Another issue with [Masquerade Gown] is that the design is a bit schizophrenic. To get the proc reliably you need to spam heals, but the value of the proc is lowest when you're...spamming heals.

There's no viable playstyle you can use to maximize the benefits obtainable from the proc. Contrast to [Bangle of Endless Blessings], which much more useful - the proc benefits you most when your spamming heals.

I like the robe because it is spirit based, and because it's a unique design - but it'd be a lot better if they'd had decided on something other than a spirit proc...

I really have to question why you would ever want to wear [Star-Soul Breeches] over [Breeches of the Avatar].

Take T5 as your base, and "upgrade" to Star-Soul. You "gain":
-10 stamina
-9 intellect
17 spirit (assuming an 8 spirit gem, just for ease of comparison)
-12 Mp5

If we assume a 10-minute fight, 9 intellect can easily be converted (raid buffed, Kings) into 1.2 Mp5. Also, convert the spirit into SoR+Kings format, i.e. 19.6 spirit.

That gives us a comparison of 19.6 spirit vs 13.2 Mp5. Assuming 100% of the time spent out of the 5SR, 19.6 spirit is 12.3 Mp5, and it is absolutely ludicrous to assume 100% of the time spent outside ... you would be standing still, casting nothing.

So 13.2 > 12.3 (max), and you also gain 10 stamina. In addition, you can socket the pants as you see fit, with any of the great blue gems available, i.e. [Royal Nightseye], [Dazzling Seaspray Emerald], [Imperial Tanzanite], [Lustrous Empyrean Sapphire], etc, etc, etc..

Conclusion: T5 > Star-Soul, by a reasonable margin. Even if you're a spirit priest, Mp5 is not wasted, especially when the total regen from the Mp5 is greater than anything that would *ever* be possible from the spirit.

I agree, tier5 is amazing, but if your guild values PVE progress, it's not realistic to get it. Priests having to share tokens with two tank classes pretty much screwed us over. My guild had been in BT and killed Naj'entus twice before i finally got 2/5 tier5 (hat+gloves) and I don't know what the heck to do once we get Gorefiend down and he drops his cloth hat, because if I have to give up that set bonus, it's just not an upgrade.

Warning, rant incoming:

As I see it, a lot of stars aligned in TBC to screw healing priests over.

a) Sharing loot tokens with the two primary tank classes meant your gear is worse than everyone else's. (Primal Mooncloth doesn't count. I have big enough survivability problems with 0 pieces of armor with 0 stamina on it. I shudder to think of using 3 items with 0 stamina)
b) You need 2 shadow priests. Otherwise your mages and hunters cry.
c) Lower raid cap means b) has a bigger effect than it would have in a 40 man setting.
d) The general consensus is that the raid viable paladin build is holy and you always, always, always want 3 leaving less room for other healing classes.

Benefits of bringing two healing priests? Imp. DS, 1 priest with CoH and (100% encounter dependant) one more PoH. But you could replace #2 holy priest with a restoration shaman and get another set of totems, a bloodlust/heroism, chain heal which pretty much does the same as CoH. And we all know how awesome earth shield is.

So... what happens in my guild is that we tend to bring one 23/38/0 priest to almost all raids (me) and I get every last non-set cloth healing item there is, so life is good these days (BT/Hyjal random loot is pretty darn good). But boy does it have to suck if you rolled a priest to heal and your guild is hot on min-maxing its raids.

Rant over.

I agree that the situation with tier5 instances was horrible when considering holy priests. Our guild had MT out of DKP system and he got every upgrade always first. Only one tier5 full set for him, but since our luck with drops was simply horrible when considering the priest/warrior/ druid bracket, it took a long time to get him the gear (and pre-2.1 one token per boss kill certainly did not help us). For example our last 10 Void Reaver kills have resulted 2x pri/war/dru tokens. We also had a feral druid and resto druid with 100% activity+ 1-2prot warriors per raid as OT (good thing that DPS warrior and shadow priest sets were bad). We also raided tier5 content usually with 7 healers, leaving 1 spot for holy priest when 4 active ones in roster. All this resulted that our holy priests got their first 2xtier5 set bonus on the reset before our first Illidan kill, and even now 1 is still missing it.

However, the situation in tier6 instances is much better, at least in our guild. We have almost always 2 holy priests in the raid (some easy Hyjal bosses exception), sometimes even 3. Some of the encounters like Bloodboil and Mother are simply easier when stacking more healers, and our default healer amount in raid has increased to 8. Even at RoS where we never have more than 7 healers we bring 2 holy priests because PoH+CoH is simply awesome on that encounter. We have also had complete opposite luck with tier6 token drops than we had before, last time I checked it we had had more priest/paladin/warlock tokens than the other 2 ones in total (not saying this is good for the guild).

a) Sharing the token for the t5 instances means nothing, Primal Mooncloth is the best there is till t6, end of story. Getting your hands on 2 pieces is swift business with gloves and legs or head, maybe a little longer if your a head/leg person. Personally, I use 5 items with 0 stamina, and while I must admit on trash it can be a bitch surviving, I enjoy the challenge. An imp is all I need for Najentus, and I enjoy having no margin for error on a retard check like supremus. I haven't been killed by fear->doomfire ticks ever on archimonde either. I could go on.

Hp is almost as overrated as haste.

b) Shadow priest is a different class from healing priest, the numbers you bring shouldn't effect the amount of holy priests.

c) see b)

d) 3 paladins for blessings is a no brainer indeed, that doesn't necessarily screw over healing priests though. We currently have 1 resto, 1 ele and 1 enhancement shaman present on all our raids, 3 sets of totems is more then enough, the MT group does not need the totems and neither does the healer group. Granted, doing say, teron with just 1chain heal is noticibly more difficult, but tbh its no stretch and the extra inspiration on the tank makes up for this.

Shamans are diabolical MT healers, and alot of encounters do not favor chain heal, whereas with Inspiration you just can't miss. Not to mention priests are perfectly capable of going 'healing forever lolol' on the MT if they wish(be it gh1-3 odd without a shadowpriest depending on the dmg your tank takes, or gh7 with) while at the same time flash healing constantly without a problem for a fair while (rage winterchill if your on iceblocks, solarian if your playing it safe, teron if your making up for the lack of 2 chain heal...) if its needed.

And of course, yes you will get DS, and yes you might get COH and you do get that extra POH, and of courseiIf your alliance, you also get those fearwards.

Granted we are wierd and have not 2, but 4 holy priests in the guild. 3 being dwarfs, and the other being one of its leaders ;z

That being said taking taking less then 2 is imo, not the optimal way for the reasons I state above.

We're farming SSC and working on Kael, and the total Warrior/Priest/Druid tokens so far have been distributed:

Warrior #1: shoulder/gloves (tank)
Warrior #2: shoulder/gloves/legs (tank)
Warrior #3: shoulder/legs (hybrid tank, took tank items)
Warrior #4: legs (fury dps)

Priest #1: head/legs (holy)
Priest #2: head (holy)
Priest #3: head/shoulders (shadow)
Priest #4: shoulders (shadow)

Druid #1: head/gloves (resto)
Druid #2: legs (balance)
Druid #2: shoulders/gloves (feral)

From 58 pieces of T5 so far (some at 1 per week, some at 2 per week; VR and FLK the longest having been killed), we have received 19 warrior/priest/druid drops. That's 32.75%, or almost precisely on target for where it should be.

If you are in the situation of being in a guild where it's under 20%, then I feel your plight. But if you are in a guild with 30+% drop rate, there's little excuse for not having grabbed a 2-piece, unless your dkp system really really sucks. As you can see, ours is designed for even distribution, with no tank priority (we're not progressing fast enough to need it; our tanks are geared enough to take us into BT now, and we're not done with Kael).

If the rest of the warrior/druid/priest camp thinks they need their T5 tokens more than you, take them aside and carefully explain to them just how good the 2-piece is. The warrior 2-piece is mostly meaningless; the 4-piece is amazing. Since it takes so long to get 4 pieces for all your tanks, ask them to take 2 each, and then let the holy priests take their 2, then take up to the max. Not many priests would cry if they only got 2 pieces, but got those pieces fast and didn't have to wait an insane amount of time.

If you're smart, you can even indicate to the warriors that you are completely uninterested in shoulders and gloves, and see if they'll let you take pants/helm first.

As far as needing stamina ... eh. Working on Kael now, and the only time I die, it's not a situation where an extra 1500 hp would have saved me. I die to things like 1-shots from untanked mobs, or charge+auto-attack at the same time as throw. I've tried wearing my pvp gear for trash to keep up the stam, and either I live with 5000 hp to spare ... or I die anyway. Stam isn't helping me in T5-level encounters, but regen is king.

As far as benefits to bringing holy priests to a raid instead of shamans or druids?
Not a whole lot.

But if you need healers, and all you have is spare priests ... a priest is still a healer. You might not get a heroism (being nerfed anyway) or an innervate/BRez out of them ... but they can heal, and can actually AE heal the best of the four classes.

We currently have 8 healers:
- 3 holy priests
- 3 holy paladins
- 1 resto druid
- 1 resto shaman

I'd love to switch a priest for a shaman ... but it's almost impossible to find geared, interested restoration shamans on Alliance-side. Every single one is snapped up so fast it'd make your head-spin, or home-grown and geared from scratch by a guild, and thus completely inaccessible. We lucked out and got our one resto as a transfer back to the server intentionally to raid with us, as his old guild fell apart.

If anyone can suggest an easy way to find resto shamans, I'd love to pick up one more. Only having 8 raiding healers in the guild is going to be ... interesting ... when we get deeper into Black Temple. We run with 6-7 atm, and can afford to: the only fight so far that *demands* 7 is FLK. Morogrim is easier, but doable with 6, but FLK demands 7 or there will be a lot of deaths.

This didn't seem to be discussed in-depth before, but as I've been spending more and more time raiding on my Priest, I've been trying to look at the potential min/max options for my gear. I've always been a fan of regen, and it served me very well when gearing up--however, now that I'm rather solid at just over 1900 healing/200 mp5 non-raid, I feel a bit more flexible about playing with stats to see what is "best."

Of course, this lead me to lootzor.com as it's quite handy for looking at things in a numeric sense... however, the quesiton is always "how to weight stuff?"

Realistically, a lot of this goes by feel. Math can't prove everything in regard to healing, but -trying- for a moment to look at things from a pure mathematical perspective, I came up with the following rationale:

-Healing would be the base value to compare everything against (1)
-Mp5 would be valued based on its impact of downranking manacost vs. healing lost
-Spirit would be based on various multiplier of Healing and Mp5 (Imp. DS/Meditation/etc.)
-Int would be based on a multiplier of Mp5 over an 8 minute boss fight

The numbers I ended up with are:

Healing
Healing Value = 1

Mp5
Assumptions:
5/5 Divine Fury
3/5 Empowered Healing
3/3 Improved Healing
5/5 Spiritual Healing

GH7 gain per heal: 1.14
GH2 gain per heal: 0.93
GH1 gain per heal: 0.83

(These numbers were pulled from my current values, substitute if needed)
GH7 701 mana -- 4934 avg
GH6 637 mana -- 4568 avg
-64 manacost (128 mp5), requires +323.7 healing (2.52 mp5/heal)
GH5 603 mana -- 4397 avg
-98 manacost (196 mp5), requires +471 healing (2.4 mp5/heal)
GH2 386 mana -- 3054 avg
-315 manacost (630 mp5), requires +2022 healing (3.2 mp5/heal)
GH1 314 mana -- 2584 avg
-387 manacost (774 mp5), requires +2831 healing (3.65 mp5/heal)

This is a bit variable, depending on what spell you use the most. Given that GH2 is my favorite downrank, I will use a value of 3.2. This may be slightly different for those who use different ranks.

Mp5 Value = 3.2

Spirit
Spirit is the tricky one, because it affects so many things. Impact from Spiritual Guidance/Imp. DS needs to be calculated, as well as Mp5 due to Meditation and potentially the PMC bonus if you use it. Also, one's average OO5SR time may vary heavily from person to person. This section may require heavy substituation of values, so I provide the whole formula below.

Imp. DS + 3/5 Spiritual Guidance Contribution:
Healing Value * .25 = 0.25

OOC Regeneration:
0.625 mp5/spirit (while not casting)

5SR Regeneration:
0.09375 mp5/spirit (with meditation)
0.125 mp5/spirit (with meditation+PMC)

Approx. Time OO5SR = 30% (This may vary)

Formula:
(0.25 * Healing Value) + (5SR Regeneration * Mp5 Value) + ((0.625 - 5SR Regeneration) * OO5SR% * Mp5 Value)

With PMC:
Spirit Value = (0.25 * 1) + (0.125 * 3.2) + ((0.625-0.125) * .3 * 3.2)
Spirit Value = 0.25 + 0.4 + 0.48
Spirit Value = 1.13

Without PMC:
Spirit Value = (0.25 * 1) + (0.09375 * 3.2) + ((0.625-0.09375) * .3 * 3.2)
Spirit Value = 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.51
Spirit Value = 1.06

With PMC + The Human Spirit + Spirit of Redemption
Spirit Value = 1.13 * 1.10 * 1.05
Spirit Value = 1.3

Intellect
Fight time: ~8 minutes (480 seconds)
1 Int = 0.15625 mp5

Formula:
(0.15625 * Mp5 Value)

Intellect Value = (0.15625 * 3.2)
Intellect Value = 0.5

Final Numbers
Healing Value = 1
Mp5 Value = 3.2
Spirit Value = 1.06 (no PMC), 1.13 (PMC), 1.3 (PMC+SoR+Human)
Intellect Value = 0.5

This generates this list.

Of course, these formulas were thrown together somewhat quickly and it's very highly possible I made some glaring error somewhere, or missed something important. So, wouldn't mind people's feedback and thoughts as to how this kind of thing could be calculated.

As I said above, certainly healing is one of those "by ear" things in some cases, so math alone isn't always the answer...but given that lootzor is an interesting tool--especially in how it weights gems/socket bonuses automatically--I would like to investigate this angle a bit further.

(I must admit that prior to now, I had rated Mp5 a bit higher than it has been derived by the above formulas. I have been going with an assumption of around the 4.5:1 mp5 to healing rather than 3.2. So, I'm challenging a bit of my own feelings here--which is another reason why I'd prefer some more sets of eyes on it!)

I'm one or 2 holy priest in our guild that are regulars. Guild just downed lurker, Gruul on farm, working towards Mag & Morogrim. Currently 28/33/0 with Kara and Gruul purps. Both priest have 2/2 iDS so i'm cotemplating changing my spec around. I already want to take 5/5 spell warding for sure (heard great things) but other than that, i'm not sure how much of a shuffle I want to do. If I want to go 20/41 and pick up CoH or just shuffle a little.

I'm trying to get some cold hard facts as to why you guys have specced into CoH. I know it's great for Void Reaver, but I can't justify speccing for 1 talent for one middle of the road boss. Do you priest with CoH use it in every raid? I understand you really don't want to use it unless you have >3 ppl needing say 600Hp (I'll be pushing 1650+ heal (Fort & Spirit) once i get my Golden Spellthread on my T4 legs & almost 1900 full raid buffed).

Just trying to get justification for going that deep into Holy. I carry the old stigma that 20, 31, 41 talents are garbage. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

You would find yourself using it at ROS..bloodboil..possibly teron, and of course the bland other situational uses, most notable 'oh look the melee group is a little shy of hp- coh time' (trash !)

That being said, I have a pvvvvp healing build currently, so despite 44 points in holy I don't have it either ;b

That will change when I respec to drop Blessed recovery, though.

If you can get away with not having DS (ie there is a 100% chance you will have DS in every raid if you do not have it) you have the flexibility as I do, to spec however you want...but don't go taking COH because it is needed as that, is not the case. At the end of the day it's pretty much a gimmick as others have said before.

Spellwarding is very sexy, that I can assure you is true.

Nice list Jade, but I think you picked a couple of the wrong pieces of Absolution - the hood, chest piece, and legs that you have on there for example is from the Regalia set or the DPS set, not the Raiment/Healing set.

(or the site might have picked it on it's own, I haven't looked into how it works yet)