Lyreth

Thank you for taking the time to verify that for me Lightshadow i was starting to worry that something had been changed without me knowing it! <3

 

Jo_

I guess the final result of beeing able to express one of them in terms of the other would be mainly as an aid in to choosing between one item with high mp5 (aswell as spirit and healing) or one with high spirit (aswell as mp5 and healing) or one with an equal distribution and also at what cut off point "the most efficient" stat equals out with the "less efficient" stat due to how ilevel is calculated.

edit: lightshadow, what about if you where chain casting and then used inner focus, did that instantly take you out of fsr or not, that one used to be the winner before kindof.

 

tedv

Lightshadow, thanks for doing the test. I wonder when they changed that, but it's great that we know how it works now. Free spells don't count as casts for FSR. Note that this includes Surge of Light.

The best guess is that the server tracks the timestamp of the last spell cast, and it's less than 5 seconds since that time, you regenerate at the low rate. The following things will update the last spell cast timestamp:

- Using any ability that costs mana
- Continuing to channel a spell

Perhaps the "free spells don't trigger FSR" is fallout from them changing crafting abilities to not proc "chance on spell cast" items. Crafting abilities are all "spells" but they have no mana cost. They could have just changed the "did a spell cast?" code to require a mana payment to change this, which inadvertently affected mana regeneration.

 

Lightshadow

When did the change you're referring to happen Tedv? As far as I know this has been true since they changed when the 5sr starts (used to start at the beginning of a spellcast...patch 1.4), but I was several other things before being a priest so I can't say that firsthand. I think you're spot on with how the mechanics of it work though.

Edit: @ Jo_'s question: didn't test it, but as far as I know it doesn't. My guess is that finishing a spellcast + hitting inner focus + long casting spell (since it's mana free) + time before the next tick is often > 5 seconds and that's what you're seeing.

 

constantius

Good to see some posts.

I concur with the previous posters who confirmed that Clearcast + IF = ~ 8-10 seconds of OO5SR with 2-3 GH:7s landing (for free). It's one of the few situations that makes me happy about the state of the priest class.

It wouldn't be so much of an issue if the encounters we were experiencing were anything but a whack-a-mole fest. Here's what I see a lot of encounters being:

- the tank & spank with extra dmg coming from environment: big hits on the tank (huge hits, sometimes), with a team of healers keeping the tank alive and 1-2 healers topping up the raid
- the multi-tank situation (i.e. Maulgar, or 5-add Maggie), where each healer has an assigned task
- the crap-shoot: lots of damage being taken by everyone, no real "tank" (i.e. Aran)

Paladins outheal us on Aran. Paladins have better "nuke" heals for the tank & spank. Paladins have better quick-fast-top-up heals.

The issue is ... how do we use our uniqueness (PoH, PoM, and Renew) to make ourselves useful, when realistically (at least until 2.1 nerfs their regen) paladins are better at all other roles of the priest class. If I chain-cast GH:7 (with 204 Mp5 self-buffed) and any of the paladins in my guild chain-cast HL:11 (with 150 Mp5 self-buffed, and 20-25% crit), they will do more healing, faster, and for longer ...

But on a fight like Gruul or Magtheridon, how do we *shine*? What can we do that they can't? PoM is a nice gimmick, but it's not exactly a tank-healing spell. It's cool for initial snap aggro, and possibly to help build some aggro (like Misdirect), but it's not a tank-healing spell. Too little healing for use of the GCD.

Ideas?

 

Fitch

Err, I'd disagree that POM can't be a tank-healing spell.

- It heals for around 1600 HP for around 250 mana depending on talents.
- It then bounces to a new target within 15 yards with the least HP, and for at least 10 seconds if you constantly re-apply you may be healing other people.
- It is instant, so during those few seconds while moving it gives you something to do.
- It is pro-active. You can chain-cast and cancel GHeal(1) forever, but PoM pretty much guarantees that time chain-casting won't be wasted. Granted, if a tank is at 100% for the past few seconds I wouldn't cast it since I'd be preparing for an actual hit (since avoidance rolls can only be in your favor for so long).
- You know the mana won't be wasted.
- It's a handy way to, in a way, 'top-off' the tank, in effect increasing the tanks max HP (unless a single hit downs him).
- It can help tanks generate threat.
- As much as I stress queueing up heals, I can't control the actions of other healers. If the tank is not topped off, this motivates healers to step it up, and so if the tank gets crushed, at least that burst of heals could save him (vs. my chain-casting and as he gets burst my tossing on a 3k heal to slightly alleviate the blow but now re-casting along with others who only react when the tank 'needs' healing).

I think it is an amazing situational heal, and this is not even including its utility healing in PVP. It can't be the 'exclusive' tank-healing spell for Priests, but it provides a viable alternative to chain-casting.

One question I do have about PoM: in raids, what is the mechanic for stacking PoM? Via MendWatcher, I know that sometimes it instantly overrides someone else's, and I have a feeling that it is due to group make-up. I'm thinking that only POM per group can be cast on the same target, but can anyone confirm this?

 

◊ Kalman

My understanding is that channeled spells keep you in 5SR during channel, but that the 5 seconds once the channel ends is calculated from start of channel, not from end of channel.

(I.E. channel mindflay; you exit 5SR 2 seconds after MF ends. Channel Starshards, you poor NE bastard, and you'll be in 5SR while channeling, but exit as soon as it ends.)

http://mmorchive.net

The WoW forums, explained:

 

constantius

This understanding seems to be correct to me.

Given that holy priests have zero (0) [null] channeled spells of note, it doesn't really impact us.

The 5 seconds for holy priests effectively begins at the end of the previous cast, whether that be instant (so at the end of the GCD from casting renew/PoM/PW:S) or cast (as soon as the Flash/Heal/GH goes off).

My usual method will be something like:

<chain-casting GH:1 or GH:3 or whatever>
<let one go off, Clearcasting procs>
<start jump-casting GH:7 until the tank needs the heal, during this time, effectively drop out of the 5SR anyway>
<instant I actually use the GH:7, hit IF, and start doing the same thing>

In essence, I land two max-strength heals on a tank for 0 mana cost, while getting anywhere from one to three full 5 second bursts of mana regeneration (which works out to about 1500 mana raid buffed). It's sexy.

Now if Clearcasting proc'd off everything, like mages ... O.o

 

constantius

As far as PoM being a tank-healing spell, I agree that it's USEFUL for healing tanks.

But it's not exactly a bread&butter spell like Greater Heal.

It's an incredibly efficient, proc-on-damage spike smoother, similar to PW:S (except efficient) in that it's reactive (absorb versus heal-on-dmg-taken). But it's not exactly the only thing you can use.

What I tend to do with PoM is cast GH:7+Renew+PoM + <jump>. Then I stand there until the PoM procs and the tank needs a heal, and I start the GH-jump spam again. It's a way to spend a little mana (I think 270 mana for me with my spec, IIRC, plus the 500-odd for top-rank Renew) in order to ensure the tank's HP is smoothed out while I take a regen-nap.

As an aside, has anyone ever seen a tank take damage and *not* proc PoM? It happens about 1 in 10 for me. Tank has PoM, engages a mob/boss/whatever, takes 700-1000 dmg ... and PoM still sits on them. Then they take a nice big 4k hit, and it procs. Just curious ...

 

drowsy

I've only noticed PoM not proccing when the person is shielded and it hasn't broken yet

I like PoM a lot for getting a little extra healing in without losing 5 second rule time. Just like refreshing renew right as another cast ends, PoM buys you another second that can help you stretch to escaping the 5 second rule sometimes, especially in a large gheal/cancel role.

Can't say I agree with using jump to cancel your spells, though. There's a good amount of time (most of a second?) where you are in the air and can't start casting a new spell, instants aside. It can be done just as easily by walking a step. I like to cancel by tapping left or right strafe, alternating so I don't drift.

 

Liryn

Definitely. I've had to train myself out of this...

 

Kamileon

Does anyone have any insight on the logic PoM follows when it jumps?
In my regular 5man crew, the mage gets the first jump of PoM almost exclusively, if everyone is at full health. Proximity to the tank doesn't seem to matter, as there's always 2 rogues up by the tank, and I've interjected myself in hopes of "catching" the jump and had it go over me.
I had a running theory that at full health, PoM will jump to the person with the lowest total HP #, but even after rearranging my gear to come under the mage's HP and standing between them and the tank, PoM still jumps over my head.

Outside of being a nazi and trying to force the mage to stand more than 20 yards away, I'd like to understand why it tends to jump there about 80% of the time, in order to keep up between my 2 rogues and the tank if possible. Or at least on me, so I can SW it on.

Either that, or my PoM is just haunted. I was actually cackling maniacally out loud last night in Gruul's lair as my PoM's first jump would go to this same mage despite them not being in either my group or the group with the tank it started on.

 

Babe Bridou

Well... I don't know about others, but I have the feeling that paladin healing simply requires no human influence besides choosing the target fast enough, and thus is limited in what it can potentially achieve - this is totally biased by the fact that I'm a horde priest, I admit.

For example, I've had a holy paladin guildmate tell me he couldn't solo heal a heroic instance. Meanwhile, I've had a discipline priest guildmate tell me he couldn't solo heal a heroic instance anymore since he respecced to disc PVP tanking. Both have good 5-men/kara/heroic healing gear.

 

dB(A)

My best guess would be that it's the result of "Blade Turning" from the Tier4 set? Even though the tank will take more damage than the absorbed 200 damage from his ability, I suspect it will disallow PoM to proc on that attack from the mob. Anyone that can verify this?
Indeed, jumping gets people killed easily. Just try to strafe left/right or run forward/backwards.

 

Calya

This thread made me register after a couple months of lurking.

I agree with Constantius, manipulating the FSR and squeezing out those uber regen ticks with high spirit is one of the best things about healing on a priest, and means that healing is never boring for me (unless it's farm content, but what can you do). It's something that is fairly specific to our class and requires some skill and attention. I'm *very* happy about the new Eye of Gruul after the patch, since it presumably will now work like Auslese's Light Channeler by allowing you to cast a downranked spell that is essentially free and will not trip the FSR. The new Earring of Soulful Meditation is quite nice as well and may be the only thing I could stand to replace my Bangle with. I like that I have a choice of trinkets that don't simply revolve around spamming as many spells as possible during a 15-second period.

Question: has anyone managed to raid heal with a build that includes Spirit Tap past Gruul/Mag? I'm using a 23/33/5 right now that I intended to keep until I got my epic gryph, but now that I have it I'm wondering how much longer I can justify hanging on to it instead of respeccing to 23/38. I'm concerned about its viability once we move on to SSC, mostly due to the lack of Empowered Healing (I still have 5/5 Spiritual Healing and 3/3 Holy Concentration so Emp. Healing is the main thing at the top of the tree that I wish I had).

 

Kirion

What do you priests think about new 9 healing/4 spirit gems in 2.1? Is it better than Royal Nightseye?

42.

 

drowsy

As far as the OP goes, I like stacking +heal with a little mana5 and a bit more spirit, since I'm big into gheal cancel, and wear mooncloth + bangle. My typical gear ignores stam entirely, with pieces available to swap in to get to the amount of stam needed for specific fights.

Most of my casts are GH 2, 5, and 7, renew 10, PoM. Most of the time I GH2/cancel, refreshing renew and PoM almost always right as a gheal gets through for extra spirit goodness. GH because there is more healing per cast and results in more regen time in many situations. Though when I settled on it, GH1 did not have enough oomph for heroics, but my gear has improved since then and it may need another look. Ranking up I usually go with GH5, late Gruul is the only one we've gotten to (which is to say, mag phase 1) where GH7 is always a preferable uprank, otherwise I tend to overheal with it.

I think we have a lot to contribute in a fight like Aran. When you see Aran casting on someone already low, PW:S is nearly always available to the rescue. You don't always have 1.5 seconds, and while Druids and pallies have some instant things, they have significant cooldowns. When it looks like aran is going to get a cast off, I drop a PoM, shield, or time a flash, then move on to aran's next target while the pally cleans up. Priest healing is great for staying ahead of that kind of damage even if the meter doesn't say so.

 

• mutagen

Don't forget the little threat spike it gives the tank each time it bounces. Not much, but it is that much more headroom for the DPS, especially when you can collect a few bounces on one cast.

 

Qupe

I'm pretty sure PoM jumps to the next highest aggro in range. Its a reactive spell, so instead of jumping to lowest HP it jumps to next highest aggro in range to prebuff for the damage. It seems to make more sense for a spell that heals on dmg taken to jump to the target who is most likely to take damage next.

Not 100% sure, but its my guess.

 

Kamileon

That would make sense. I'll have to watch KTM and MendWatch to see if that holds true.

 

zeidrich

Even better is make a macro:

/stopcasting

That way you don't have to jump or move. Moving doesn't work too well in flame wreath, and wastes time as well.

 

Nitz

I binded my /stopcasting macro to "Space" with my former night elf priest, since I was a heavy jumper due to one post on WoW Forums:

I liked it better when it was called Flourish.

 

Lightshadow

My understanding/guess on PoM was that it simply used the chain heal mechanic--and for people that are down health, it certainly does. The person in range missing the most health gets it 100% of the time in my experience, using it almost exclusively to heal a two-tank heroic shattered halls is some of the most fun I've had in BC =) For when everyone's full though... I haven't even got a good guess for you.

I just can't justify spirit tap in a "serious raid build", though exactly when one needs a "serious raid build" is certainly up for debate =) SSL might well qualify though. The top of the holy tree (holy concentration and empowered healing) really are worthwhile though...

As for the 9healing/4spirit gems--news to me, I haven't been looking at the PTR much, but given the above numbers (even the ones that are very favorable to spirit) you'd have a tough time convincing me that 4 spirit = 2 mp/5 though it might be pretty close. What colors? If that's blue/yellow it'd be nice for going after metagem requirements without losing too much, that'd make me pretty happy