r3dknight

I'm not really experienced in raiding much, I've only been up to Shade of Aran in KZ. And I've noticed I've got a threat ceiling on every trash pull, so my questions are:
-With those Threat ceiling in mind and no skill-based aggro reduction (except for BoSalvation & 10% off talents) why should I go crazy on spell damage?

-I'm sitting on 26% non-buff spell crit currently without the talents included and feel OK with my burst dps, I know my damage is not spectacular when it doesn't crit. But at least I've got some semblance of mana effeciency with the clearcasting crits. So I'm socketing every socket with +8 Spell crit gems with this goal of 40% spell crit in mind with Totem of Wrath it's achieved. Is this OK ? Or am I gimping myself in some encounters?

-Do you include flame shock as part of your spell cycle? Or rely mainly LB, LB LB CL when Clearcast is up? I realized casting CL when clearcast is up seems efficient, but waiting for LB to land & register a crit takes a second or so (more when max distance) so I find it more efficient to just spam LB continously and Flame shock when I'm close enough for a little bit more dps. In boss fight that I have to move a lot eg. Aran, I usually place a searing totem to deal consistent dmg.

-I've taken two trinkets recently for a test and pretty happy with the result with Dr.Boom test on non-PTS Server (100% clearcast still in effect). I've buffed myself with:
Spell Dmg Food
Elixir of Adept
Totem of Wrath
Totem of Mana Spring
Wrath of Air Totem

I popped 1 Combat Mana pot near the start. Then Super Mana pot whenever cooldown is up. I've managed to kill Dr Boom from 95% and ends the fight at around 30-40% mana. It took me around 16 minutes and 7 super Mana potions.

I basically repop the Mana Spring totem when it's gone. Then do a Totemic Recall when they're 5 second to wearing off before resummoning them. Every 3 minute I used my Elemental Mastery skill.

Mark of Vindication
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Classes: Paladin, Shaman
Requires Level 62
Equip: Increases attack power by 54.
Equip: Chance on spell hit to restore 128 to 172 mana to the bearer.

Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 60
Equip: 2% chance on successful spellcast to allow 100% of your Mana regeneration to continue while casting for 15 sec.

I've had these two trinkets equipped with my current armory profile. Would they be a viable raiding gear pieces? or am I sacrificing too much dps for longetivity?

Thanks, sorry if my post kinda long.

Edit:
I did 581,919 dmg and dps metre showed 43% percent crit which is pretty accurate.
There was a mage jumping in the last 3 minutes to finish off Dr Boom. I could've gone a little bit longer but Boom died prematurely.

 

Ragnor

Do you and your tank have KLH Threatmeter installed? What sort of threat level is your tank generating? You might be able to suggest some improvements to your tanks regular skill cycle to significantly improve his threat per second.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

www.retpaladin.com

 

poiza

check :
your TPS
tank TPS

post it here

 

• Daler

There's tons of ways to manage your threat, esp. as elemental. Enhancement basically stop attacking, and pray the tank can regain before they die.

FIrst and foremost, get at the very least your tank and yourself to download KLHThreatMeter. Check his threat per second (TPS) with KTM. Check yours. Adjust your start time accordingly. Keep one eye on your castbar, the other on KTM at all times.

Get Subtlety enchanted on your cloak. Give your tank more of a buffer for threat generation before opening on trash mobs.

If you don't need to AoE, avoid CL with multiple mobs and simply spam LB on the MT/OT's target. Shocks are a waste of a good GCD, imo, esp. given our +10% crit on LB compared to shocks. Save that 6 sec CD for interrupting.

Increase your spot healing. Its threat is only 50% of the total effective healing done.

Etc., etc.

 

r3dknight

Alright that sounds agreeable. That's what I do most of the time anyway.
Lately I've been thinking I should resocket my gems.
Currently I have 18x Gleaming Dawnstones (+8 spell crit) socketed everywhere.
I'm planning to replace them with 18 x Potent Noble Topaz (+4 spell crit & 5 spell dmg)
Which will result in -72 Spell Crit Rating (3.25%) & + 90 spell dmg
I've also considered replacing my +30 INT enchant on weapons with +40 Spell dmg, I'll lose a little bit of MP5 since 6% INT is convered to MP5 from talent as well as perhaps 0.375 Spell Crit Loss.

Right now I'm sitting at 26% Spell Crit & 570 Spell Dmg unbuffed.
After these changes (Gonna cost a lot of gold T_T) I'll end up with:
22.375% Spell Crit & 700 spell dmg unbuffed.

Is this an acceptable number? If there's mistake somewhere please correct me.
I think, with full self buff I would have:
Totem of Wrath +3% spell crit
Wrath of Air +101 spell dmg
Well Fed +23 spell dmg
Adept's Elixir +24 spell dmg & 24 (1%) spell crit
Superior Wizard Oil +42 spell dmg

Which totals up to around +190 dmg & +4% Spell Crit
And...finally bump it up to 26.375% spell crit & 890 spell dmg.

Comments? Is this OK socketing change for the price?
Edit:
I also realized I have almost zero Spell Penetration stat on my gear. Only +20 from cloak enchant. How crucial is this stat?

 

• Praanz

If your post has a headliner stating Aggro Dilemma - I would say whatever Penetration does it's not benificial enough if there's Subtlety wich lessens your threat output.

Ever since the introduction of Inivsibility for mages I couldn't care less if Penetration was beneficial or not in theory - I just know I have 0 use for Subtlety when I can dump my aggro 100% and thus I have Spell Penetration on my cloak.

Raiding is full of challenge. Sometimes there is fire.

You have not to move out of the fire, it will be nerfed soon.

 

kingkaos

Spell Penetration helps against partial resists. I find shaman are the only class with a real use for the stat as CoE covers most of the casters ass in that department. With the 20 on cloak combined with the +30 elixir, I notice a decent difference in the ammount of partials I get. I still wouldnt rate it as an extremely important stat though.

 

Quasi

Threat meter is your friend. Keep an eye on it and make sure you stay below your MT. In my experience a high crit rate makes damage very streaky. When you are riding the MT's butt on threat and get a string of crits you will pull aggro. It's difficult to predict or prevent other than holding back. With that said adding more +dmg at the cost of +crit to your gear should help even it out.

I prefer a minimum of about 20% crit from gear then as much +dmg as I can. Again thats just personal preference.

On most fights I have seen threat has only been an issue during the initial pull or when a boss has a deaggro ability. After aggro is established I have found it very difficult to catch up to the tank (with salvation).

I would recommend spell penetration to cloak over the threat reduction enchant. You will see a much larger improvement in aggro control with KTM installed in your groups than that enchant.

 

Snow

Has anyone figured out the aggro properties of lightning overload yet? I seem to recall that the second bolt either had a reduced aggro component or possibly even reduced your aggro, but it was never clarified and I'd imagine it'd be hell to try to test.

 

Nite_Moogle

I think that was probably speculation or a suggestion, I don't recall reading anything like that in any blue posts or patch notes.

 

Snow

 

Nite_Moogle

Which is why I don't post in absolutes anymore!

 

r3dknight

Yes, I have KTM installed, and it's pretty great for trash and single boss encounters but when we get some Opera event like the one I had today with multiple targets, I find it very very hard to track my aggro.

Failed to control my dps twice in R&J event. I had to force myself to just heal after critting twice in a row because KTM does not reset threat AFTER R or J dies in the first wave, they just keep stacking on the total KTM.

Would love a mod recommendation or any gameplay changes to counteract this problem.
But I had no.1 dps slot for the Kz run and was pretty happy with the general changes, albeit I drank quite a bit of mana pots compared to last time heheh.

 

Ezareth

Penetration is decent, but only get it when you don't have other options(cloak enchant, occasional epic gem).

8 spell crit gems are bad, Noble Topaz is better, and Runed Living Ruby best.

Flame shock in your rotation will increase your DPS, but lower your mana efficiency.

In regards to your question aggro on trash should never be an issue. Either you are DPSing to hard too early, or your tank needs work.

You have the same reduction that other casters have -10% threat. If mages aren't pulling aggro you shouldn't either. Mages can't use a reactive invisibility, and its cooldown is long enough to make it useless on trash. Warlocks can pop a soulshatter if they pull aggro.

 

desertswarm

You can pretty easily just switch between Tranq and Wrath of Air to control your TPS. This assume aren't in a tank group which is pretty easily avoided. Everyone in your group can go much harder if they have BoS + Traq on them to start trash pulls.

Flameshock using a GCD < damage than using it on another LB unless there is movement like on Aran where you are hitting him on the run.

 

• Daler

Bring two tanks. Have them fight for aggro on Julianne during Phase 1 (she's a pushover anyways) so they both stay high on KTM. Stay below both of them. Problem solved.

You can also set master target to Julianne for Phase 1, then switch it to Romulo during Phase 2. Clear master target in between each Phase, and keep it cleared for Phase 3. It won't be perfect, but it'll be more accurate.

 

Kegsta

I don't really have threat problems in Kara, but my group has a druid MTing, and i always ask for salv, if the mob can be slowed i go all out, if it comes on me, frostshock and earthbind are my friend.
Bosses have never been a problem, just watch KTM, but with bosses hitting so hard the druid has to much threat it just isn't a problem for me.
My best guess is your tank needs to generate more TPS.

Those 2 trinkets look like trash to me. but im sure you've worked that out by now.

On the socket selection, how do people value topaz vs runed, almost all my gear is comprised of yellow and red sockets and I just use whichever one it is, and blue usually gains me a socket bonus of +5 damage making it effectivly a +10 damage +6 stam gem.

I think spell penetration on cloak is better than subtlty myself, if a mob has any resistances it gets taken advantage of.

 

• Daler

True, but for those mobs that don't have NR, subtlety still reduces your threat output. And considering we're the only casters without a threat dump ability, every little bit counts.

Personally, it's a toss up. If I have the mats on my enchanter, I'll get subtlety slapped on. Otherwise, I'll stick with spell penetration. Neither are really a make-or-break enchant for elemental.

As for the OP, I honestly have no idea how you're doing so much aggro whoring. Unless your starting WAY too early in the fight, or your tanks just plain suck at threat gen, you really shouldn't be having problems with threat.

And your attack rotation should only include CL on clearcast if there's no chance it'll pull a mob off the tank, since you're having aggro issues during trash clears.

 

whave

While I understand Potent Noble Topaz and Runed Living Ruby are better in terms of damage output, Gleaming Dawnstones are not something I find absolutely bad. As an average blue-geared KZ-raiding elemental shaman with around 23% unbuffed crit (mostly +8 spellcrit gems) and about 640 nature damage, I feel those yellows as a must-have for e.g. a Prince fight, where I spam LB. W/o a shadow priest but with BoW, I might drink a potion or two, but I am still able to finish the fight without completely drying out. If I have changed these yellows to spelldamage gems, I don't feel I could do the same.

I know this is a bit off-topic, and very sorry for this one, but you mentioned these gems and I got very curious...

 

Miaxi

/ktm r
Write that into a macro and push where the built-in boss modules don't clean KTM.

You should ask for salvation before wisdom. Also you have tranquil air totem, which stacks with salvation. It is very useful on threat capped fights, like the prince. Just use it for the first 1-2 minutes and then swap to wrath of air. That will give your tank enough time to get far ahead of you in threat.

 

Malan

This is probably the real problem in your thread - are we talking about bosses or trash here? Pretty much any DPS class has a low threat ceiling on trash unless its a 1-2 mob pull because your tanks are splitting their attention over multiple mobs. If you're opening up on the first marked trash target as soon as its pulled, you're going to exceed the tank's threat very quickly. Pace yourself on trash, most of it (unless they have timed abilities like the gargoyles in Naxx) doesn't require everyone going balls to the wall to kill.

Get used to your threat gen now and figure out what pace you need to go at, because it only gets worse - our elemental shaman has pulled damn near everything off of the tanks lately, Lightning Overload is pretty dangerous in PvE.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

wilfan

You don't have have Elemental Precision at the moment (http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...ogg&n=Vegmund). You were using Elemental Master on Dr. Boom, so you changed your build in the mean time. Did you have it then? Do you have it on raids?

Personally, I can't imagine skipping it when I aim for high DPS. It adds a lot of raw dps due to +hit and lowers aggro slope. Then again, my shammy hasn't been further than a few heroics.

 

Miaxi

Had we figured out how much threat it exactly generates, by the way? I vaguely remember 50% threat on the proc.

I died to a couple trash pulls last night but I can honestly say that it was my own fault for being silly and starting too early. Trash is hard to control, especially if tanks need to watch out for sheep wandering about, and most of the time does not generate a lot of rage to work with. The better geared the warrior/bear, the worse will be his TPS on trash.

 

◊ Sarutobi

According to thottbot the additional spell cast causes 50% less threat.

 

Nite_Moogle

I can't believe none of you looked at the timestamps on the posts you were replying to today.

But yeah: http://www.thottbot.com/s39805 implies there's a 50% threat reduction on the procced cast.