With the recent nerf to EF, I'm starting to think out of the box now and how it may be possible that a shaman may be an oddball class that is not only a hybrid class but be able to hyrbid spec (druids feral would be the only other consideration i can think of that does sorta does that...except they get one tree to do it) Most hybrids must pigeon-hole themselves into a spec and that is their role. But what about a class that has dual roles..I think its an interesting concept. Plus it'd be fun as hell and keep the game interesting.

So ive been basically respecing weekly between ele and resto. I have decent gear for both (ele- 562dmg, 18.5crit...resto 1150heal, 131mp5, 9400mana) The things I wanna focus (I really shouldn't use the word focus since this idea isnt based on focus'ing on one thing) on are still being able to throw on my healing gear to be a viable healer BUT be able to sustain DPS in a raid setting while buffing my group as well as off-healing. PvP currently im an all-out nuker, but reducing mana costs and having mana tide would be extremely nice to have. Also farming/questing is a pain in the ass as a resto build...id like to alleviate that (3 second LB's are just not fun) Also I still want the ability to switch to ele in certain PvE fights if needed. (which is one of the reasons ive had to respec so often) I know some of the responses would be "just bring a mage" or "just bring a pally" but I think there is some nice utility to shamans that could really help raids (10-man or 25-man) in a truly hyrbid role.

Here is my spec im thinking:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GE0uq00aVZZE0ezVxoz

Why I chose what I did-
Healing:
This healing build is built around mana regen and mana conservation. While there aren't many talents that ive chosen to increase my healing % persay, I beleive my mana conservation well be fairly close to being on par if i had spec'd more to +healing benefits. Unrelenting storm will give me about an extra 30-50mp5 (depends on buffs) which in a 5min fight will give me an additional 2-3k mana. I didnt care much for Healing Focus and Nature's Guardian (these are primarily pvp skills with some PvE viability)

Elemental:
This build is truly hyrbid for an ele shammy. My main focus was to get to Lightning Mastery and Elemental fury first and foremost as these are essential for burst damage as well as constant LB spamming in an ele PvE build. You may wonder why i got call of flame...well i see reverb as simply a PvP skill that i can live whithout and Call of flame will help PvE ele as well as farming. My largest concern is the gimp I get without having Elemental Precision. A quarter of this is made up by getting Nature's Guidance, but the threat is still going to be an issue. (i guess get Subtley to cape...even then..its still gimp) However here is my logic...In a pve ele situation I would be in the group of mana damage dealers. Obviously WoA is a boost as well as Mana Spring, but Mana Tide would also prove wonderfully for mages, etc who have noted that they still have to mana pot chug in raids. (trust me mages/locks/hunters love me when im in their group when i mana tide) Now, granted this would be no different than me being pure healing...i could play an active hyrbid role (i say this because i end up having to off-heal in kara quite a bit as well as hearing people saying it may be necessary for fights like some fights like gruul) My point being is that I could dish out some serious damage while still having some very nice healing efficiency. Also, theres talk now on the PTR that Mana Tide might really help ele shamans sustaining DPS in a raid setting...meaning more overall damage in the long run.

Pros:
-Mana Tide - good for both healing and ele...especially with EF nerf in 2.1
-Versatility
-A good mix of DPS and Healing...would be like making me the 3.5th healer and the 4.5th DPS'r (i.e. in a 10man)

Cons:
-Threat in PvE is a major issue...but a mix of healing and DPS'n can alleviate that
-Plus+hit is a concern...but can be somewhat alleviated a bit by gear
-Lack of +Heal skills

I'm going to test it out next week and let u know how I like it.

Any thoughts/comments/concerns???

On first glance, it seems that if you're concerned about threat, then having neither threat reducing talent is probably not the way to go.

Additionally, in terms of increasing your ability to heal, the only thing the hybrid spec you posted brings to the table is Mana Tide, which is admittedly a strong bargaining chip. However, you have a long way to go to argue your utility over a shadow priest in the hybrid role. As deep elem or deep resto, you bring some unique abilities and group buffs that set you apart.

Just my 2 cents, I know there are many shaman here that run hybrid specs to raid. I simply remain unconvinced.

I was that spec for a while. It's pretty good, it works as advertised, and I think it's the best build for running heroics as the off healer. One difference between your build and mine though, and I've got to nitpick- totemic focus doesn't do much for you. With the high crit rate you'll be aiming for, you'd be doing yourself a serious disservice not to take ancestral fortitude. You could toss the other 2 points into imp. reincarnation or 2/3 healing way, or whatever else floats your boat.

It's not great for raiding though. That's a min/max environment, and if you are performing a dps role, you'll be pretty severely threat limited, at the least. You can't really heal effectively in elemental gear and switch to dps later(the most likely "hybrid switch" to make, like druids tanking an add until it's dead, and then switching to dps), because your heals are somewhat puny and you'll run yourself oom besides. You can't do much dps in healing gear either. I was ending up being assigned "dps with patch healing" 9 times out of 10 and there's really not much reason not to go 41/20 then and make the casters happy, so I did.

Again, being able to put up ancestral fortitude a good amount of the time is an interesting niche of the playing style.

@daler
Well I'm more or less demonstrating that I realize there is a major con to this build...however I think a shaman healing/DPS'n might be able to sustain their threat by actively doing both. I'm also presenting the idea to get some suggestions from people to say either "ya, threat will be huge without those talents" or other possible verifications of what I've personally thought about. I'm more or less admitting there are flaws but wanted to get some verification on how badly it may affect the role. Trying to think outside of the box here instead of the typical "This will increase my prime role of DPS by x% or healing by x%"

Another alternative is any suggestions on what to sacrifice and additionally sacrificing DPS threat or healing?

@snow
I agree with the respec'n to 41/20 idea but thats sorta why I chose to go deep into resto to get mana tide. With the EF nerf, mana tide may in fact provide more longevity for a ele DPS'r. Raids have always been min/max but why not break the trend ;-P

After thinking about it...what about this build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GE0uq00aGZZEcczixoz
Threat is no longer an issue, but LB's become 2.6s casting (kinda like frostbolt spec now). I think most people on paper might see that as dumb, but it'd be interesting to see its versatility.

it looks like you're thinking about the lengthy discussion that went on in this thread: [Shaman] Elemental vs Restoration

i would recommend reading through that one if you haven't already, as there was a lot of interesting options and theorycrafting done there.

Well, as Snow pointed out, raiding in TBC is a min/max environment. Having hybrids that provide mediocre DPS and mediocre healing is not really a viable option. With the elem stats you posted, you'll still be lagging well behind by missing out on an extra 9% hit and 3% crit compared to a deep elem shaman. And the only healing benefit you bring that a deep elem build doesn't is NS, Mana Tide and an extra 7.5 mp5 while that's on CD. Is that worth a hefty decrease in DPS or healing? Personally, when building my raids, I can't think of a case where it is. I'd never knowingly bring a mix of mediocre damage and healing throughput when I can just bring a shadow priest instead.

And as a deep elem build currently, yes, threat will be a big issue without that 10% reduction. Even with salv, over the course of a 6-8 minute fight, I have to keep my eye on KTM constantly. LO procs and the massive strings of crits I put out at 35% (w/totem) can really cause my threat to skyrocket mighty quick.

You can do pretty competitive DPS and secondary healing with a simple gear switch with something like 34/0/27, but you really can't do the reverse. That's the only decent hybrid build shamans have. Of course it isn't a raid build.

You can't really put too much points in resto since 75% of the time you won't be using most of the talents on offer. Think of it this way, whenever you cast Lightning Bolt, 16 points of talents from Resto sits there unused for 2 second. Which is why I went with Tidal Focus since it covers every healing spell cost.

The off chance you heal is probably only once every 5 Lighting Bolt or so in 10 man raids. Usually when I need to heal on my 41/0/20 build I just do a Chain Heal since it helps take off pressure from the main healers. I don't do Healing Wave cause it's too slow and putting 5 talent points on it, only to be an off healer seem like a waste to me.

The second build looks fairly good, although you may as well drop out the 2 points in Lightning Master and put them into Unrelenting storm & something else.

a 30/0/31 build is the most versatile of the Shaman builds out there, given that Tide is more useful than EM.
You may also want to look at including Healing Way

That's a nice build for Leotheras.

Good idea missle...

Here is another idea:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GE0uq00aGZZEc0zixou

@dink/baler
Although I dont have a lot of experience in TBC raiding (was hardcore pre-tbc) I imagine spriests are mostly thrown in healing groups. The advantage of of this build is to be the sole mana-dps buffer.

Some Thoughts:
Let's take a step back and understand what really makes an elemental shaman raider viable?

IMO the only 5 points in the ele tree you need to raid DPS are EF, EP, EF, US and LM. Since its impossible to spec both LM and EP, I think sacrificing LM to make it a 2.6s cast may still be viable...but that would also probably take a lot of theorycrafting, etc. (part of the discussion here) I've heard from many shaman that raid (in general) that "ya my DPS coulda been better because i was busy off-healing" Why not add some more healing ability (i.e. mana conservation for our already ineffecient heals) while barely disrupting our DPS capabilities. Also, it would be nice to still be able to main heal 5-mans (and possibly lower tier heroics with good gear) without having to respec. I do think this hyrbrid build definitely leans more towards the ele tree, as mana tide was the main talent to get in the resto tree. A lot of these ideas are coming from the fact that EF was nerfed hard. While the WoW general forums aren't always the most viable source of data, there is a post there with PTR information that more or less concludes that mana tide, although sacrificing spec, will ultimately help with longevity for an Ele shaman and thus increasing DPS. I dont know, just some thoughts.

Lightning mastery is the defining talent of elemental spec. It's solely responsible for making elemental shamans competitive DPS. It's probably the best 5 point talent in the entire game. Moral to the story: don't sacrifice lightning mastery.

What he said. I've heard that most dps talents in the game are designed around giving you a 1% dps bonus per point; give or take and ymmv, varies on the situation, etc. LM lets you cast LBs 33% faster, while making our spells the quickest scaling the game; so in the theorycrafting world, it's worth 6 times as much as the average talent :P.

The only way it would start to be comparable is if you were going to run out of mana either way.

Here's another problem: you seem to be looking to be healing/dpsing in equal quantities. Aside from that not being efficient min/max theory wise, it's even less efficient in practice. Keeping up a tank? You might need to be starting and canceling large heals. Doing emergency healing? Interrupting lightning bolts to throw a LHW to save someone close to death only to have a flash heal land at the same time is going to be maddening You'll lose dps to that alone. Just from experience, the difference in my dps is pretty amazing when I stop to throw "pity heals" now and again. It's one of the reasons the tier 5 bonus is better on paper, or for 5 mans, then it is for actual raiding...

Hah.

I get put with the healer group by default. Partially because I have restorative totems, tide, T4 2pc, and spellsurge. The other reason is so I get the spriest bonuses too!

Anyway, past the 5min mark, the damage output difference is around the 10% mark... theoretically anyway, when looking at a 41/0/20, 40/0/21, 30/0/31 & 31/0/30 type build

This assumes only 1 shadow priest per raid. A typical Kara raid for my guild is something along these lines:

MT
Feral OT/Hybrid Warr OT
Rogue
MM Hunter/Rogue
Lock/MM Hunter

Holy/Disc Priest
Shadow Priest
Holy Paladin
Elem Shaman (me)
Fire Mage

Obviously there'll be some variation along this theme, but mana is so rarely an issue that a resto hybrid just doesn't fit a need. A deep resto, on the other hand, becomes an interesting addition to the healing rotation (we drop the hunter/rogue for a 3rd primary healer when needed).

In 25 mans, with multiple shadow priests at my disposal combined with hotswapping and group stacking, again, there's no reason to take a hit in our DPS with so little gained.

Something I would be interested in seeing is group mana regen comparisons for the hybrid shaman and a shadow priest of reasonable gear (no higher than Kara). I think that would be the real selling point for me to consider a build like the ones proposed here.

I could be mistaken but I seem to recall a quote from Binkerani in one of the larger threads saying a 30/0/31 build is going to lose around 10% DPS, but gain 20% healing effeciency over a deep Ele build.

Absolutely. But why bring the hybrid that's at the bottom of both when you can bring a shadow priest who will be in the middle of the pack or higher on at least one of them?

And that's the entirety of my point. I don't see a 30/0/31 outweighing its cons. Replacing the elem build with the hybrid loses 10% DPS from 1 character and foregoes the benefit of 20 spell damage (once that damn helm drops) and 3% crit and hit to all casters. That's a significantly larger gap then the simple 10%.

Additionally, that 10%/20% disparity is assuming the hybrid is either DPSing OR healing, not both during any one encounter. The single person DPS reduction would be substantially more if the hybrid were nuking and doing any more than the occasional (rare, even) spot healing.

If the benefit to his healing can outweigh that, then by all means. Hell, I'll go respec today if that's true. I just don't see that being the case. But if someone wants to do the math, I'm always open to being proved wrong.

I'm not gonna double check that but I think the key issue is 'what will you be wearing'. Hell; even as deep enhance I can comfortably heal any non-heroic dungeon with the exception of Arc. IF I wear my healing gear. In my dps gear, I can't heal Ring of Blood event.

Now granted, you'll have better synergies in ele gear. But let's be honest: 700 spelldmg would be pretty decent for elemental, but 700 healing is absolutely gimped for a healing role.

For panicy offheals, any build will suffice. You can be 61 elemental and still your LHW will pack a punch in a pinch (ouch). The only situation where being hybrid specced would pay off a bit (imo) is if you have a boss like Major Domo or High King, where you first have to deal with some adds and healing is spread out thin. Then you could switch to dps after you have only the boss left.

As long as you have NS and 3/3 Healing Wave, you can solo heal the easier Heroic instances (with sufficient gear) and do decently healing in raids. You'll also do well in PvP. The thing is that if you're gonna be raiding you pretty much have to pick a tree. With the OP's build you will not be able to DPS any raid boss (you will not get anywhere NEAR the hit cap even with amazing gear). You will also not be a great raid healer, and your spot could better be filled by a fully specced healer or full time DPS.

As for a soloing/arena/fun/5man build, an Ele/Resto hybrid is great. It is highly limited though.

Whilst I can attest to healing in DPS gear being pretty lacking, factoring in the ability to change gear from encounter-to-encounter 30/0/31 does allow for effective healing (albeit in a secondary fashion). If you're playing for the meters than a hybrid build is not worth looking at - but even in TBC Min/Maxing Healing Way, Mana Tide and Nature's swiftness does allow you to be pretty flexible swapping functions as encounters demand.

It all comes down to what your guild or raid make-up requires of you really; if you're spending significantly more time in either role its not worth the sacrifice.