[Warlock] how do you do high DPS? - Page 65

Idk · 09/05/07, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by rochan

Hey my guess was pretty close! haha

Nice analysis Idk.

Typical Destro locks will have around 26% crit minimum (and often more than 30%) in raids, so yeah about 40 crit rating. This trinket could definately use a buff of some sort.

For late game these numbers may be correct. For the stage of the game that I'm in (KZ, Gruul, pretending to be in TK) the gear that's available for destro locks is still very light on crit assuming you're going for maximum personal dps. I use the spreadsheet to figure out relative stat values.. when I do this for destro, place those numbers into a gear calculator, I find that I have a good chunk of the best gear for a destro lock at this level in the game.. and with that gear I'm sitting at ~18% crit for destruction spells with 0/21/40.

Unrelated, I remember a relationship of about 7:1 in regards to changing the crit value of the trinket. So for every 7 crit rating that you add to your setup, you lose 1 crit rating from the card. It's not linear but that relationship is fairly useful across the spectrum of realistic crit values.

Sinsei · 09/05/07, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by Silmeria

This is how my raid is at the moment. Out of curiousity, what is your second warlock spec'ed and do you two coordinate specs at all? I'm been looking at the specs trying to find a nice two-warlock match-up, but it's been near impossible as I'm fast swallowing the fact that I should be respec'ing almost nightly for my raids depending on the fights. My greatest fear is taking shadow embrace off the table, so I might ask my second warlock to grab that and stay affliction spec'ed, and just alternate with him perhaps. Maladiction is fast losing its importance in our raids as we can barely man the spec the keep it up consistently through all the spec-changing.

Nice to see raids can hobble by with two warlocks though. I know mine feels gimped with only two =)

If you're running melee heavy raids, putting up CoW and CoR might be a better option then having someone spec malediction and shadow embrace. Then on mobs where CoR doesn't reduce any armor, then just put up CoE or CoS depending on mages/s.priests, I'm sure you wouldn't miss the extra 3%.

Silmeria · 09/05/07, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by Apoq

If you're running melee heavy raids, putting up CoW and CoR might be a better option then having someone spec malediction and shadow embrace. Then on mobs where CoR doesn't reduce any armor, then just put up CoE or CoS depending on mages/s.priests, I'm sure you wouldn't miss the extra 3%.

Pretty much what we do, minus the CoW stuff. We have imp demo shouts going up on everything, so I'll never bother with CoW.

Idk · 09/05/07, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Silmeria

What curse are you using in the T4-25mans, out of curiousity?

Good question.

The simple answer: our typical raid is caster heavy with only two locks, so I do curse of shadows and the other does curse of elements.

Longer answer: for a bit of background.. I come from a small guild on a low pop, underdeveloped server so there's not a whole lot of raid potential here (which is why we're still stuck). The most developed guild hasn't reached Kael yet. That said, the makeup of our raids varies alot since we depend on a good chunk of word-of-mouth and allying with other guilds to make the 25-mans happen. As a result, it's not uncommon for me to be the only warlock in a raid. The highest number of warlocks that I've had in a raid is 3.

I like to think of myself as a rather quick mathematician so I try to gather as much info as I can on the trash and use that assessment for the boss. I look at our group composition, I gather damage stats on the trash. Then, when the boss explanation is happening, I figure out which curse is best to use given our number of locks and I distribute that info to the locks of the raid.

The elemental curses are easy to figure out.. I look at a breakdown of overall raid damage. If 10% fire/ice damage is greater than 10% shadow/arcane damage, than curse of elements is priority. I can do this with fire/ice damage, shadow/arcane damage, physical damage, and then curse of doom damage. If we have a malediction lock, they're on duty for whichever elemental damage is higher. If we have a second malediction lock (never seen this) they get the other elemental, otherwise a non-affliction lock gets the other elemental curse. If we have a lot of melee than CoR usually gets the next curse slot. We've never had enough damage problems to need someone doing CoW.

There's something to be said for me being affliction instead of demonology so that I can always fill that malediction slot. However, 95% of the time that we have another lock in the raid other than myself they're affliction so SE is covered. I consider myself a skilled raider and our overall raid shadow damage is rather low, so I believe that the 3% shadow boost from malediction is roughly equivalent to the additional damage i get from raiding with the felguard instead of deep affliction (this is just what I've discovered empirically.. maybe I just suck at refreshing dots). Felguard feels more useful to me for the other things that I do in the game (heroics, KZ, arena, etc.) which is why I stick with that spec.. and I'm way too poor to be able to respec for every raid.

EDIT: I should add that I also like the demo spec because if we have a raid without almost no shadow damage and me as the only lock (it's happened, I've been in a gruul raid with 7 fire mages), I can use curse of elements and incinerate instead of shadowbolt.

Sinsei · 09/05/07, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Silmeria

Pretty much what we do, minus the CoW stuff. We have imp demo shouts going up on everything, so I'll never bother with CoW.

Our only warrior is the tank, so. =/

/sigh

I assume you both want to be destro and not have to respec. CoS/CoE + CoR combo doesn't seem too bad in your situation. Blood pact + shadow embrace is nice for learning fights, but once your tank hits 18.5k+ health buffed without pact and your farming content, it's safe to say you dont need to be affliction. (Our MT had 21k buffed without pact, but recently quit the game for RL stuff)

But you can do well as affliction though. I've been destro for about 3 months and recently went back to 40/0/21. I went from typically being number 1 to number 2-4 behind our other destro locks. I know I'm not maintaining DoT timers as well as I could, otherwise I'd have to agree that it's all "in our head". Affliction is harder to play and thus easier to mess up but honestly I think destro v/s affliction is too close to matter with average gear(before 4/5 Tier 6 anyway).

Our new tanks are lacking HP, so I went affliction to help out for now. Seeing that I'm still 2-4 on the meters, I should pull ahead in 2.2 with a gear swap. Once I get 4-piece T6 I'll be heading back to destro land though.

Idk · 09/05/07, 2:00 PM

A couple more felguard tips..

1. Bug your pallys constantly about keeping Blessing of Might on your felguard. The more you bug them the better they'll get at keeping it up and it's nice incentive for you to keep your felguard alive so you don't have to annoy the pallys for another buff. The blessing really makes a substantial difference.

2. Ask your healers to drag the pet bars out and tell them how to do it because almost no one knows how (drag the pet tab out from the raid tab).

3. I use the following macro for managing my felguard with 1 button. It isn't the greatest macro in the world but I like it and bind it to my r key.

/petattack [target=pettarget,noexists]
/petfollow [target=pettarget,exists]
/cast [modifier:shift,pet:Felguard] Intercept

So "r" sends him in, "r" brings him out, and "shift+r" causes him to charge (or just attack if his charge is down). Only thing I could ask for is a way to turn autocast of cleave off and on which I've just been too lazy to figure out.

Sinsei · 09/05/07, 3:01 PM

Originally Posted by Idk

Only thing I could ask for is a way to turn autocast of cleave off and on which I've just been too lazy to figure out.

There is no command to toggle auto-cast abilities directly but you can use a /click macro to reproduce a right-click though, for example:

/click PetActionButton5 RightButton

This would act like a right click command on your pet's 5th ability.

Voivode · 09/05/07, 3:02 PM

Thanks for the information Idk, I was wondering, how hard actually is it to keep the FG alive on your own? Do you find yourself using Health Funnel a lot for example, or is VE/VT more then enough to keep him topped up?

tetracycloide · 09/05/07, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by Chimera

So, even if you proved to me mathematically that 0/21/40 was superior stand and burn single target DPS to 41/0/20 with "end game" gear, (it wouldn't surprise me if you could prove this, though I haven't the inclination to do it for you) it really wouldn't convince me to drop affliction. Stand and burn a single target is usually a recipe for either a really easy fight (gorefiend) or a really luck based fight (mother), neither of which I am particularly interested in designing my spec around.

I could post the ideal gear set for a standard affliction build and a standard destruction build if access to all drops was open and show that the spread sheet indicates the single target DPS of the destruction build in the destruction gear is higher DPS but it doesn't really sound like you're actually interested in that fact so why go to all the trouble?

Stand and burn a single target is the theorycrafting staple of camparing the DPS of two different specs. You can rightly argue that affliction is worth bringing to the table for the utility it provides with it's unique talents and on some fights argue that putting out higher DPS overall, spread between several adds, is superior to just buring down one as quickly as possible. That doesn't change the fact that a destruction build gets more from hit capping, more from crit stacking, and more from haste than an affliction build.

The entire point of the post was not that affliction is useless in high end raiding, it is that stacking more than two affliction locks in a 25 man raid provides little marginal utility given that you already have two and the two affliction locks should be using CoS and CoE, not CoD or CoA.

Originally Posted by Pentamorfi

Where does that kind of DPS place you on the damage meters in your guild?

I'm trying to figure out whether, in the given circumstances, I am dishing out (almost) as much damage as I should.

On gruul that usually puts me at #1 on total damage out. For DPS listed on WWS I'm almost always behind the destruction lock which bring me back to my original point about WWS. I'm obviously dealing more damage in the casting windows available because my total damage is higher. My DPS number is lower, however, becuase the destruction lock doesn't get the silences and ground slams counted for their DPS time like I do.

Sinsei · 09/05/07, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by Voivode

Thanks for the information Idk, I was wondering, how hard actually is it to keep the FG alive on your own? Do you find yourself using Health Funnel a lot for example, or is VE/VT more then enough to keep him topped up?

This information has been included in the previous pages of this thread. The final answer is that it depends on what fight, what group setup you have, and if you have certain gear.

You can't actually say the FG is or is not hard to keep alive, because of so many variables. Think of him as a rogue and anytime a rogue has a hard time in a fight, so will he. Depending on how good your healers are, you may or may not have to use Health Funnel. Obvious if you find yourself using it alot then you have your answer.

Sinsei · 09/05/07, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by tetracycloide

I could post the ideal gear set for a standard affliction build and a standard destruction build if access to all drops was open and show that the spread sheet indicates the single target DPS of the destruction build in the destruction gear is higher DPS but it doesn't really sound like you're actually interested in that fact so why go to all the trouble?

Stand and burn a single target is the theorycrafting staple of camparing the DPS of two different specs. You can rightly argue that affliction is worth bringing to the table for the utility it provides with it's unique talents and on some fights argue that putting out higher DPS overall, spread between several adds, is superior to just buring down one as quickly as possible. That doesn't change the fact that a destruction build gets more from hit capping, more from crit stacking, and more from haste than an affliction build.

The entire point of the post was not that affliction is useless in high end raiding, it is that stacking more than two affliction locks in a 25 man raid provides little marginal utility given that you already have two and the two affliction locks should be using CoS and CoE, not CoD or CoA.

Going along with this, you wouldnt be 41/0/20 with end game gear anyway. You'd be 40/0/21. Aside from that we've hit the debuff limit when we had 2 affliction warlocks, and curses were getting pushed off.

So you have to ask yourself, is affliction really all that useful when it requires 5/6 debuff slots to do comparitive damage? Then having to re-apply curses because someone procced an ISB at the same time you re-applied immolate, its going to hurt everyones DPS.

With end game gear, and procs going off for all classes, debuff real estate is important. After the patch I'll only be using CoS, Corruption and Shadowbolt as 40/0/21 because of this. Destro is less needy for this reason.

In any case, as Tetra stated the gear out there supports Destro moreso. However I still think affliction builds are still viable. Once you hit 4/5 T6 though, it's a clear choice. Add +haste and the relentless meta to that and affliction just can't keep up. IMO the 2 piece bonus should have been an increase to affliction DPS instead of a health gain.

Leveret · 09/05/07, 5:22 PM

Originally Posted by Idk

Only thing I could ask for is a way to turn autocast of cleave off and on which I've just been too lazy to figure out.

From what I remember, there's a ToggleSpellAutocast() function you could use. I don't remember if it's been disabled or not, but I think I saw macros involving this function well past 2.0, so it's probably still usable.

Idk · 09/05/07, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Apoq

This information has been included in the previous pages of this thread. The final answer is that it depends on what fight, what group setup you have, and if you have certain gear.

Apoq, I think you're missing the point. Voivode was asking about felguard raiding before SSC and voidstar/T5.. I agree with him that information about felguard raiding pre-SSC is missing from this thread (having followed this thread for quite some time) which is why I decided to try the spec in the first place. Voivode asked:

Originally Posted by Voivode

I know this is going back a bit but: Felguard Raiding

We have Nyar and other's very in-depth studies and reports from SSC onwards, but can we look further back? How viable is Felguard raiding in the Tier 4 dungeons before you have access to the 2 pieces of Tier 5 and Voidstar talisman. I'll welcome any personal experience or theorycraft on the subject.

Thus I think his question was targeted specifically at pre-SSC/T5 demo raiding.

Back to the topic at hand,

Originally Posted by Apoq

You can't actually say the FG is or is not hard to keep alive, because of so many variables. Think of him as a rogue and anytime a rogue has a hard time in a fight, so will he. Depending on how good your healers are, you may or may not have to use Health Funnel. Obvious if you find yourself using it alot then you have your answer.

I agree with Apoq that it's extremely situational.

I think the rogue analogy is too much of a generalization. As a general rule, fights that are difficult for melee tend to be difficult for the felguard (Gruul). On the otherhand, fights that are well suited for melee aren't always well-suited for the felguard (Aran). Finally, some fights that are frustrating for melee players can be easy for the felguard pet (Prince). A major frustration playing felguard is that a player can often make a few steps sideways in melee to avoid some kind of aoe effect (cleave, void zone, wall of fire, etc.) where it can be much harder to make a felguard move those few extra steps.

Originally Posted by Voivode

Thanks for the information Idk, I was wondering, how hard actually is it to keep the FG alive on your own? Do you find yourself using Health Funnel a lot for example, or is VE/VT more then enough to keep him topped up?

I think health funnel in combat is a bad thing in most (not all) circumstances. For every second that you're funneling health, you're losing something on the order of 600-800 damage. Therefore I think health funnel should only be used in situations where it's either A.) not costing you any dps because something else is happening, or B.) as a result of using health funnel your net damage over the fight will actually be more than if you just kept dpsing and either resummoned or let the pet die.

I can recall only a few times in the last KZ raid where I used health funnel in combat: on the melee only worm things before Aran (because I had nothing better to do), right before the 2nd evocate on curator to make sure the felguard could survive the last unkilled spark during the evocate, and during the netherspite fight as part of the banish phase.

I haven't worked out the math on it yet but I believe that in almost every encounter where the felguard won't die if he's standing next to you then you're better off having him stand next to you doing nothing rather than have him doing damage while you heal him. That said, if I'm in a situation where I don't have VE or a healer for my felguard in a raiding situation.. I just let him stand next to me buffing me and sucking up damage rather than try to manage his health myself. Without a healer and without VE, I think that in almost every encounter you can still get a few good whacks in with your felguard and every little bit counts. Aran is the only encounter I can think of off the top of my head where the felguard is at risk even just standing next to you.

You mentioned VT so I'll touch on that quickly. Without VT, the felguard never has mana problems with 1 point in mana feed as long as the aggro gaining ability isn't set to autocast (which it shouldn't be anyway).

EDIT: I can think of a better way to generally answer your question: I make it my job to ensure that the felguard takes as little damage as possible. If healing isn't available to keep him alive, it's my job to either make sure he doesn't take enough damage while in melee or pull him back to me so he doesn't die. I consider it implausible to heal him by myself (barring a free moment from dps to health funnel or quick resummon).

Evidicus · 09/05/07, 6:27 PM

Originally Posted by Silmeria

This is how my raid is at the moment. Out of curiousity, what is your second warlock spec'ed and do you two coordinate specs at all?
Nice to see raids can hobble by with two warlocks though. I know mine feels gimped with only two =)

Our mages are all hyped about deep arcane builds with a shadow priest mana-battery. So my other lock is Affliction spec'd for Malediction and puts up CoS. Our lone shadow priest and boomkin certainly don't mind CoS being the priority. I usually can throw up a damage curse, but it depends on the boss/mobs... sometimes I CoR. CoW is rarely used as we usually make our token DPS warrior put up Demo Shout.

Our guild doesn't *enforce* specs, but we highly suggest a few alternatives. You won't get many invites if you show up with a straight PvP build. We have 8 locks in the guild, and 2-3 usually rotate out to occupy that second raiding slot along side me, and they normally all go Affliction (We have a few non-raiders and folks who can only really raid on weekends in the guild - they mainly focus on PvP). We happen to have a very talented Demo lock as well who will fill in sometimes, and his mastery of that build is such that no one bats an eye at it. All of us spec for ISB, however I am the only one looking at keeping it rolling consistently.

Pentamorfi · 09/05/07, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by Apoq

In any case, as Tetra stated the gear out there supports Destro moreso. However I still think affliction builds are still viable. Once you hit 4/5 T6 though, it's a clear choice. Add +haste and the relentless meta to that and affliction just can't keep up. IMO the 2 piece bonus should have been an increase to affliction DPS instead of a health gain.

To be fair, the 4/5 T6 bonus does increase the damage done by an affliction lock, even if not by as much as it does for a destro or even demo one. Then again, affliction has been one of the best PvE class specs in the whole game for so long now, it hardly needs a buff. As for the 2 piece bonus, I personally think it's a really good one for an affliction lock who might find himself in the tank group with no shadowpriest. It helps at making you a bit more self-sustainable, nothing earth-shattering though, I presume.

Edit: Thought I'd mention we did Gruul again today, with an undergeared raid that had several wipes at 16 growths before finally managing to get him down. 3 locks again, so I was on CoD, trying to get used to not using my usual UA-Corr-Immo rotation, but rather mixing them up a bit in order to facilitate control over refreshing them ASAP with no downtime. Wiping so many times meant I could practice at it a lot (along with keeping CoD up), had a peak of 1022 DPS on one of these wipes, but most of my tries showed me at around 900 DPS, give or take. The only saving grace was that I was #1 at dmg meters in the kill, since our kick ass BM hunter wasn't around :P

Oh well, I guess I suck.

bhaltayr · 09/05/07, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by Chimera

I guess I'm dumb because I'm killing Illidan with an affliction spec, and toping the damage meters while doing it.

Hyperbole aside, you've not provided any evidence to back up the bolded assertion. Just because there's better nuking gear available in BT/Hyjal than there was in karazhan doesn't mean that nuking builds will be superior.

Furthermore affliction excels on some of the harder encounters in the game. On phase 2 of Illidan, which is the most difficult phase, there are two mobs to DPS.

In phase 2, 3, and 4 of Kael'Thas there are multiple mobs to DPS.

On Archimonde while there is only one mob, you spend so much of the fight moving around that DoTs easily out pace nukes.

On reliquary of souls in phase 2 affliction's steady (not spikey) damage prevents me from one shotting myself with an unlucky deaden crit, and my lack of dependence on pet sacrifice allows me to use a felhunter to autodevour his shield without taking a DPS hit. in phase 3 I require zero heals as siphon life and (soul siphon buffed) drain life keep me up even as the aura starts doing 3k+ per tic.

So, even if you proved to me mathematically that 0/21/40 was superior stand and burn single target DPS to 41/0/20 with "end game" gear, (it wouldn't surprise me if you could prove this, though I haven't the inclination to do it for you) it really wouldn't convince me to drop affliction. Stand and burn a single target is usually a recipe for either a really easy fight (gorefiend) or a really luck based fight (mother), neither of which I am particularly interested in designing my spec around.

I am really not sure how you are topping the damage meters in those fights as Affliction. We have four warlocks in our guild, 1 is Affliction for Malediction, Shadow Embrace, and Blood Pact while the other three are all 0/21/40 and the WWS parses speak for themselves. I recently respecced from Affliction to Destruction (we rotate every couple months to keep things fresh) and the difference is night and day. The only fights that I could compete on were Supremus and Council as Affliction.

You could make the argument that I was horrible at DoT uptime or just suck in general but after respeccing and going over the WWS parses with me as 0/21/40 and another warlock as Affliction it's the same except we switched places. Affliction just can't keep up past T5 content even if the fight involves a ton of moving around. With that said having an Affliction warlock in the raid is needed as the utility they bring with Malediction, Shadow Embrace, and Blood Pact is huge. However I would have all my other warlocks spec 0/21/40 (none of us have messed around with demo spec yet so I won't include that).

If you want numbers then I can link you to our WWS page with all of our fights for the past month or so WWS History. I was Affliction up until our first Illidan kill on August 29 then I respecced 0/21/40 and Altiods respecced Affliction. We use all three curses on all bosses (CoS, CoE, and CoR) so we have one warlock on CoD duty unless the boss needs Tongues and we drop CoE or CoR depending on the fight if we have less than three warlocks. Here is a link to my armory also if you have questions about my gear The Armory.

The point I am trying to make is taking player skill out of the equation, Affliction cannot compete with Destruction in high end raiding on the damage meters. However the utility you get from Affliction cannot be overlooked taken lightly as I think every raid needs one.

Finkum · 09/05/07, 9:54 PM

Originally Posted by Stangg

Wow, I had no clue about this. Sorry I should do more research it seems, I did just check wow head to confirm this and rank 2 says 10%, is this accurate?

Yes improved DS gives 10% of your spirit as +damage (the 25% is a different priest talent that only affects the priest's +damage/healing, not that of raid members). This is why the token holy priest in a raid is usually 23/38; it's a buff of 20 - 30 +dmg/healing per mage/lock/shadow priest/elem shammie, so approx. 200 - 300 +dmg/healing for the raid as a whole.

authority11 · 09/06/07, 2:01 AM

I just switched from Affliction to Destro and let me say, it has been godly. I wasn't a 100% believer at first, but after seeing the numbers for myself I sure am now.

Here's a WWS of our teron gorefiend fight with me sitting at 2125 DPS without 2x 12 dmg ring enchants (waiting for different rings), a non-activated 3% extra crit dmg metagem, and some crappy green gems in my gear (due to the fact that I am still waiting for epic gems to regem my gear). I also had a couple lag bursts during the fight (goddamn roommates DL'ing crap).

Wow Web Stats

I firmly believe that if I had an activated meta with ring enchants and non-green gems (lol) I can hit 2300+ DPS on this fight.

Nyarlathotep · 09/06/07, 3:47 AM

Comparing warlocks?

About comparing affliction, demo and destro in high end raiding. It's very hard, only thing you can compare builds is spreadsheet, and that is in void environment (no movement involved, etc environmental problems). When it comes down to practice you can't compare two different players. It comes down to these facts:

Gear
Skills as Warlock
Latency / FPS (bad comp, using 10 DC per night ISP)
Experience on that certain build

Now we have mr. A and mr. B. A is super good warlock player and optimizes everything that warlock ever could, worse gear, affliction build raid stuck at Vashj. Mr. B is always playing drunk with felguard and keeps killing his pet all the time, they are farming Illidan. If A > B it don't prove that affliction is better. No one should say I can top our guild dps here. If you want to compare use WWS and see dps times, but even then people are not standing at the same line.

I personally topped our guilds damage many times with affliction, destruction and demonology, so if I top another warlocks damage with any of the builds I can't say that one build would be better than another because I just probably am playing better.

Tank might be bad building threat, which limits the other player. One guy gets Elemental shaman and 2 bloodlusts cause he's so good dpsser, other guy only has shadow priest...

This is what all these "how to dps" threads are about: What build is best for YOU. Since it's you who plays it and it's you who should find a build you find interesting to play and that also suits your raid and group setups so that you will give maximum performance for your raid. Build needs to be interesting too so we don't see one more "I quit wow, I find pressing SB stopcasting macro bit boring after 2 years" posts on guild private forums

Only way to find out what is best build for you is to see what kind of groups you are getting and think what kind of groups you would be getting with X/X/X build. Then change builds, try out different things. See with what you perform best and if you find that something you are willing to do 5 hours a night for next year. Even now there is still biased stuff cause people rarely will change all enchants and jewels to fit new build so even when you are comparing your own performance in build 41/X/X, X/41/X and 0/21/40 (+few others that are used for raiding) you should have same level of gear for each build cause best you can get SSC/TK affliction gear might not be the best Destruction gear.

I hope everyone understands that even if we talk here and many people seem to understand lots of things there are big differences when comparing two warlock builds played by two people who both post WWS here, other player is always better than other, too many variables to get a good picture.

My guide would be test build on your own, take advice from experienced people from here, but always test yourself. It's like buying set of speakers, only you can say if they sound right

-----------------------------

About felguard T-4 raiding, I can't say anything for certain, but at least one good thing to spec felguard early on is the spelldamage bonus you get from raidbuffs (sta, motw, ai, etc).

Also I always ask BoK > BoM for felguard cause BoK increases survivability of the pet and increases my spelldamage --> and some extra AP for pet.

Tornwings · 09/06/07, 3:51 AM

Wow... just wow. Thats so much dps, form the whole guild. Did you ever make any videos as affliciton btw? I'm trying to improve my dps and I can't go destro. If you want I can post some WWS parses from my guild.

Idk · 09/06/07, 4:23 AM

Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep

Comparing warlocks?
Also I always ask BoK > BoM for felguard cause BoK increases survivability of the pet and increases my spelldamage --> and some extra AP for pet.

Awesome, how come I never thought of doing that? Makes sense to me now. Oops.

Seniath · 09/06/07, 4:43 AM

One thought on the whole Affliction vs 0/21/40 debate; how much of the difference could feasibly come from the Affliction warlock being stuck in the MT group, and the 0/21/40 'locks getting spots in caster groups? (Yes, I'm somewhat in denial)

Kobal · 09/06/07, 5:06 AM

Originally Posted by Nyarlathotep

About felguard T-4 raiding, I can't say anything for certain, but at least one good thing to spec felguard early on is the spelldamage bonus you get from raidbuffs (sta, motw, ai, etc).

Some experiences from Karazhan and Gruul during my time as Demonology Warlock:

Karazhan (with the exception of Maiden) is rather easy in my opinion:

- Cellar: Anyone still goes there?
- Attumen: Fire and Forget
- Moroes: Just send the Felguard on your current target
- Maiden: We were not sure if the Felguard would chain the chain lightning that Maiden does, so I used the Imp here.
- Opera: The Crone in the Alice Event might be a little tricky due to the cyclone, else its Fire and Forget
- Curator: Fire and Forget
- Aran: The felguard is not affected by Flame Wreath in any way. The only things you have to be careful about are: 1) The Blizzard. 2) The Felguard is not affected by the mass polymorph either. So he will keep hitting Aran and force a premature Flamestrike, without the raid beeing healed up. Therefore withdraw him if you see the mass polymorph coming.
- Prince: Fire and Forget
- Illhoof: Fire and Forget. Actually Soul Link and the resistance part of Master of Demonology are nice perks for the SoC-Spammer , and the healers were more than ready to heal the Soul Link damage my Felguard took, as this made healing me even easier.
- Netherspite: The only problem might be the void zones. The way we did Netherspite the Felguard stood far enough away from the other melees, and since he himself wont be the target of a void zone (at least it never happened to me) he also never got to stand in one.
- Nightbane: Watch out for the Scorched Earth, otherwise no problems.

Gruul's Lair:
- Maulgar: I was enslaving the felhounds, and only insta-summoned the Felguard after Olm went down. He basically can't melee Kiggler or Krosh, but you can send him onto Maulgar if you withdraw him as the Rogues are running out. Not a perfect felguard fight, to be sure.

- Gruul: The Felgard is completely unaffected by Shatter in any way. Which means you can send him onto Gruul and only have to watch for Cave-Ins. Which makes it actually a very good Felguard fight.

I have to add that I was grouped with a good Shadwo Priest all the time, which of course made things easier. 2 pc T5 would also be a great help, but once you have 2pc T5 Kara and Gruul should no longer be a big concern.

authority11 · 09/06/07, 7:00 AM

Originally Posted by Tornwings

Wow... just wow. Thats so much dps, form the whole guild. Did you ever make any videos as affliciton btw? I'm trying to improve my dps and I can't go destro. If you want I can post some WWS parses from my guild.

Here's a video where I pretty much dominated everyone on Illidan when I was affliction. I posted it earlier in the thread, but I'll just repost it for convenience's sake. (Every Illidan while I was affliction had the same damage meter results, so this wasn't a fluke or anything)

Premonition vs. Illidan Stormrage

I sat out last night's Illidan, so I didn't get a good chance to see how my destro damage on that fight is, but I'll try to get a WWS of that next week to compare destro vs aff on that fight.

shed · 09/06/07, 8:00 AM

Originally Posted by authority11

Here's a video where I pretty much dominated everyone on Illidan when I was affliction. I posted it earlier in the thread, but I'll just repost it for convenience's sake. (Every Illidan while I was affliction had the same damage meter results, so this wasn't a fluke or anything)

Premonition vs. Illidan Stormrage

I sat out last night's Illidan, so I didn't get a good chance to see how my destro damage on that fight is, but I'll try to get a WWS of that next week to compare destro vs aff on that fight.

Only thing to be careful of as 0/21/40 is your threat compared to affliction and the tendency to focus a single target.

I recommend doing 5-10 sbolts on the first flame and then doing 2 to the other and so on.