Sorry for not explaining that in depth a bit more.
2.46 was the average shadowbolt cast time for a shadowbolt if you have the 4% chance of a 1.5 second nightfall proc.
(2.5 x 0.96) + (1.5 x 0,04) = 2.46
Sorry but this is wrong. It is 4% proc on corruption (and drain life) tick, not on SB casting.
If you keep corruption on one target, without missing any tick you should have in average a proc of nightfall every 75s (1/0.04*3)
Guys (and Gals), thanks very much for what has turned out to be one of my bibles.
Brief background/history....
My guild is currently clearing Kz, with solid attempts on Gruul. We have ventured into SSC to visit the lurker, but in all honesty are awaiting 2.3 and ZA to arrive.
I respecced into the 1/39/21 build as we tend to have a lot of warlocks around, failing that, shadowpriests (previously 43/5/13) - the first thing I did notice is that fights are a lot less frantic (once I got the hang of Succi micro-management).
Armoury link should be to the side, is there any simple steps I can take to up/augment my damage. (I know that I need more +hit, and have Handwraps baggsied for our next run)
Is it worth getting SpellStrike over Major Spellpower enchants on gloves?
Edit - Blast, WoWDigger profile is out by a good amount of time.
Is it worth getting SpellStrike over Major Spellpower enchants on gloves?
No, you should change your crit gems into hit gems and get a spellpower enchant, I think. there are so many ways to improve your hit rating without this subpar enchant...
our guild finally brought down gruul (one shot no less, go figure), and i noticed a debuff slot situation arising. i've been afflict since before BC (currently 44/0/17), so i figured i'd give destro a shot since i'm the only one who's hit capped. we can run with anywhere up to 3 locks and 3 spriests. my crit kinda sucks a big one (12% tooltip) but i was told i could have a space chicken and a totem of wrath in my group (gotta love guild leaders who realize increasing raid dmg is better than mages increasing their personal dmg), so that would bring sbolt crit up to 28% with the proper talents. just wondering what kind of gear changes will be useful. i'm thinkin veteran's wrists and a crit cloak (hope for brute cloak of ogre magi?). and for the moment (since i'll have 3% hit from totem of wrath) i can switch out my bloodgem for something with high crit. xiri's? mebbe the skyguard exalted trinket? (sucks in general for boss fights but it has a lotta crit on it and i can get it now)
criticisms of my assumptions and any additional info is much appreciated.
If you regularly get totem of wrath from an ele shaman, then you can dump some of your +hit for +crit. With this you'll only need like 165 HR instead of 202. I wouldnt use the Skyguard trinket lol, it's pretty bad. You have two great trinkets.
PVP bracers would be a good upgrade yeah, and a cloak upgrade would be good (either Prince or Maulgar - Prince would allow you to ditch some more hit for crit with gems). Eventually getting the Prince or Gruul one hander would give you some crit also.
Eventually getting the Prince or Gruul one hander would give you some crit also.
oh man... dont even get me started on my rolling ability when it comes to mindblade.... i even have talisman of nightbane or orb of soul eater waiting for it should i somehow get it....
Sorry but this is wrong. It is 4% proc on corruption (and drain life) tick, not on SB casting.
If you keep corruption on one target, without missing any tick you should have in average a proc of nightfall every 75s (1/0.04*3)
Anyakfe, you are correct about the proc, however, kbd's math actually works out correctly as well. Consider:
75 seconds / 2.5 spc = 30 casts
But, you have to cast Corruption 4 times for 72 seconds of uptime. That's 6 seconds lost already, and you have 16.5 seconds between Corruption casts (assuming it's instant) which will let you cast 6 bolts and have 1.5 seconds left over (to spread out for lag, though maybe not post-2.3). To get the 25 ticks of Corruption, though, you have to cast it one more time, so 75 seconds of Corruption uptime would look like this:
That gives 75 seconds of casting (4x 18 + 1.5 + 1.5, assuming one NF proc out of all the SB).
So, we have 24 SB and 1 NF SB.
(24*2.5 + 1*1.5) / 25 = 2.46 exactly.
Now, I realize that you aren't going to just sit around and wait for 1.5 seconds to recast. So let's look at a slightly more realistic scenario, which is Corr, 7xSB rotation for a stand & nuke:
This will give 25 ticks of Corruption, which will guarantee 1 NF proc (on average).
(28*2.5 + 1*1.5) / 29 = 2.4655...
However, this will take 77.5 seconds to accomplish.
So both of you make valid statements, but neither is exactly correct. Keep in mind that on a mobile fight, you maybe won't cast as many SB due to moving, but insta-Corruption would be ticking (or cast-time-Corruption). This would lower the average time because just moving won't change the NF proc %.
Note: Casting 2 second Corruption doesn't change the above numbers. The 6xSB rotation has plenty of time to allow for casting, the 7xSB rotation would still want to start the 7th SB.
If you regularly get totem of wrath from an ele shaman, then you can dump some of your +hit for +crit. With this you'll only need like 165 HR instead of 202. I wouldnt use the Skyguard trinket lol, it's pretty bad. You have two great trinkets.
PVP bracers would be a good upgrade yeah, and a cloak upgrade would be good (either Prince or Maulgar - Prince would allow you to ditch some more hit for crit with gems). Eventually getting the Prince or Gruul one hander would give you some crit also.
You never want to dump hit rating, a resisted spell=0 damage. Don't depend on another class to do good dps, we are probably the most independent DPS classes in the game and there is no reason to dump our advantage.
There are also other factors like SL, Immolate, Curses, Lifetaps etc. So it's pretty much impossible to model it perfectly. But an approximation of shadowbolt to a 2.45 - 2.47 second cast is reasonably accurate. Sometimes it will proc while you are moving depending on the fight so you get a "free" shadowbolt which is essentially a zero second cast.
You never want to dump hit rating, a resisted spell=0 damage. Don't depend on another class to do good dps, we are probably the most independent DPS classes in the game and there is no reason to dump our advantage.
this is why i wanna just be able to swap out a piece of hit gear for a piece of crit gear (blood gem for xi'ri's gift for example), and not regem, depending on if i'm with the shammy or not. cuz if ur with a shammy with wrath, that's roughly 38 wasted spell hit, which, to me, seems like a lot.
Picking up crit gear to swap with hit gear isn't all that hard - just grab your set gear, particularly the gloves and hat (both T4 and T5 gloves/hat lack hit and stack damage and crit instead). Swap those with Spellstrike/HoFT.
this is why i wanna just be able to swap out a piece of hit gear for a piece of crit gear (blood gem for xi'ri's gift for example), and not regem, depending on if i'm with the shammy or not. cuz if ur with a shammy with wrath, that's roughly 38 wasted spell hit, which, to me, seems like a lot.
I have a item set with 51 less hit for when I'm with a ele shaman. I usually switch out rings, wand, gloves, and cape and gain about 4%crit. Seems like you are going in the right direction, just don't gimp yourself by not being able to cap when you have to, for fights where you get out of range or when you aren't in his group.
Thanks for your input Silverstorm - very much appreciated.
I had assumed implicitly that if you have Nightfall - you would attempt to keep the Nightfall Proc as much as possible by recasting the corruption debuff appropriately. I may not have made that very clear - so I put my hands up to that.
Corr, 6xSB, Corr, 6xSB, Corr, 6xSB, Corr, 6xSB, Corr, SB
(...)
So, we have 24 SB and 1 NF SB.
(24*2.5 + 1*1.5) / 25 = 2.46 exactly. (...)
You are assuming that you are not casting UA/SL/CoD/CoA/DP/LT ....
If you have NF I suppose that you also have UA/SL ; so you will cast less SB than in your example.
So you will have the same procrate (~= 1 each 75s), but you will cast less SB, so the ratio of 1.5s cast is not 4%.
You can also immagine a fight where you cast no 2.5s SB and only the NF procs.. The average casttime of the SB will be 1.5s in that specific case .
Given the massive +damage bonus the 1/39/21 build gets, how much +damage should I sacrifice in favor of +hit/crit. When I was UA, I hit capped and ran to as much +dam as I could squeeze out (although I do like keeping socket bonii). Currently, with my new spec and a succi out, I'm breaking 1380 damage self buffed, Is it worth swapping out my +crit/dam or +hit/dam combi gems (purple/oranges) for pure +hit/+crit and losing the +dam? 6 x Yellow sockets gives me +48 to hit from Great Dawnstones vs +30dam/+24hit from veiled topaz.
Getting hit capped should be top priority regardless of spec. Beyond that people can only really speak on their behalf. Use a spreadsheet to find out what is better for you personally.
Given the massive +damage bonus the 1/39/21 build gets, how much +damage should I sacrifice in favor of +hit/crit. When I was UA, I hit capped and ran to as much +dam as I could squeeze out (although I do like keeping socket bonii). Currently, with my new spec and a succi out, I'm breaking 1380 damage self buffed, Is it worth swapping out my +crit/dam or +hit/dam combi gems (purple/oranges) for pure +hit/+crit and losing the +dam? 6 x Yellow sockets gives me +48 to hit from Great Dawnstones vs +30dam/+24hit from veiled topaz.
I've followed most of this thread and I haven't seen discussion of the value of bringing a warlock with ridiculously high crit rating for raising ISB uptime.
I've followed most of this thread and I haven't seen discussion of the value of bringing a warlock with ridiculously high crit rating for raising ISB uptime.
Post 2.3 the changes would be:
Chaotic Skyfire Diamond
Fury of the Ursine or Vindicator's Cuffs
Depravity Trinket
Which would yield over 45% crit to destro completely unbuffed. Minor changes could be made to gems to reach the hit cap.
Would the tradeoff of this locks personal damage be worth increasing the raid's damage if the average raid includes 5-6 shadow based DPS classes?
I know ISB models are incredibly hard to theorycraft, so this might be a 'try it and see' deal. In any case, thanks for the thoughts and responses.
As much as I love crits, foregoing other stats for crit might be a bit overdoing it. Remember that each comes individual stat (hit / crit / haste / +dam) comes with diminishing returns, so focusing on one stat exclusively isn't recommended. I don't have anything other than the educated guesswork though. Except maybe that for me, at 0/21/40, 1300ish spellpower and 30ish crit in raids, spellpower and crit rating are of about equal value, according to ShadowSeer.
I've followed most of this thread and I haven't seen discussion of the value of bringing a warlock with ridiculously high crit rating for raising ISB uptime.
-X-
Which would yield over 45% crit to destro completely unbuffed. Minor changes could be made to gems to reach the hit cap.
Would the tradeoff of this locks personal damage be worth increasing the raid's damage if the average raid includes 5-6 shadow based DPS classes?
I know ISB models are incredibly hard to theorycraft, so this might be a 'try it and see' deal. In any case, thanks for the thoughts and responses.
Uptime on ISB also depends on how many warlocks and shadow priests you have in the raid. Assuming 3 warlocks and 1 shadow priest, going from 300 crit rating to 400 will in theory result in about 5% more ISB uptime. The more shadow priests, the less uptime you get.
This is only true if they use Mind Blast and Shadow Word: Death, yea?
I don't know much about Spriest dps, are either of those part of their rotation?
Mana permitting, SPs will be burning at least MB every time it's cool. Of course, what "most" priests do doesn't matter -- you should check out some WWS of your raids and see how many shadow nukes they're landing to figure this out.
You are assuming that you are not casting UA/SL/CoD/CoA/DP/LT ....
If you have NF I suppose that you also have UA/SL ; so you will cast less SB than in your example.
So you will have the same procrate (~= 1 each 75s), but you will cast less SB, so the ratio of 1.5s cast is not 4%.
You can also immagine a fight where you cast no 2.5s SB and only the NF procs.. The average casttime of the SB will be 1.5s in that specific case .
True, though I do remember 19/0/42 being a pretty good spec, at least for a while. It was theorycrafted as one of the highest at 2.0 release. kbd's initial post suggested the SB/Corr only, so that's what I modeled, assuming enough mana to not lifetap, which is possible (~12k mana needed, less if you have SP <3 in the group).
Adding UA/SL (curse should be CoS/CoE/CoR from Aff locks, since you probably would have Malediction for pure raid spec, and debuff limits suggest 2 Aff locks max) would take out 7.5 seconds for UA and 4.5 for SL, or 12 seconds, which is ~5 Shadowbolts. So you'd have 23 regular, 1 NF proc...not too much difference (2.458333). If you want to add LT/DP...it's complicated since we all have to LT/DP at different intervals based on available health/mana/+dmg.
As for the fight where you only cast the NF procs....at that point you would have more issues to worry about than the average cast time of Shadowbolt because we all know that SB > DL spam.
Have any felguard locks done the math on the usefulness of haste rating? I am 6/44/11 for both raiding and PVP, and generally top charts by a wide margin in my guild (we farm gruul, VR, and Lurker Below...now hydross like everyone else post 2.2, and will be working deeper in SSC to give an idea of where we are and what gear we have access to).
Perhaps an easier question, is the leulier spreadsheet fairly accurate in how it estimates the effects of haste rating? If so, I can go play with it myself, but I figure that (like crit) haste is only semi-useful to me, since some of my dmg comes from corruption and CoD or CoA, plus the DoT part of immolate.
10/17/07, 6:00 AM
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