This seems to be the thread to ask this. I've got a warlock that consistently underperforms our others. Tremendous team player (he and his wife farm herbs constantly outside of raids), so he just needs to be educated. Unfortunately, he's come to a mage for advice. But lest my reputation for omniscience be threatened, I want to do what I can for him.

Now my general caster knowledge is sufficient to advise him on gear (currently ~800 damage, and ~860 shadow, but in need of some more hit for boss fights). I know enough about warlock DPS to suspect his would improve if he focused more on either fire or shadow DPS instead of the roughly 50-50 mix he uses now. I'm also vaguely familiar with general specs enough to know that 8/8/45 sounds like an odd talent point arrangement. But the deeper mechanics of warlock DPS aren't something I've devoted a lot of study to, so rather than re-invent the wheel, I thought I'd ask here.

Basically, I'm just looking for a Destruction lock spec for a raiding warlock and some basic spell rotation advice.

Related Facts:
1) There is often a shadowpriest in the raid, but not always.
2) There will always a fire mage in the raid (till we hit an instance that's fire-unfriendly).
3) There will usually be a Malediction improved CoS up.

We had a warlock who consistently had difficulty on Leotheras killing his demon. Is there any tips that we can give him. He said the first time he feared the demon, it ran completely away and he got 1 shadowbolt off before he had to chase it and never caught back up to it. We told him to not use fear but rather death coil and howl of terror as they have shorter duration. The next time he went into the demon phase having just been battle ressed so he said he only had 20% mana, and 80% health. Anyway, have any warlocks had any difficulty killing their demon then suddenly found it easy after a tip or 2. Is there anything I can share with him to make sure we don't have this problem again. Also, how does the demon behave, does it beat on the warlock or does it sit back and cast. If the latter is true I would suspect he could just let it cast at him and hopefully out damage it, with little spell pushback. He did say it hit him for about 3500 shadowbolt.

Toabo, check out the first few pages of this specific thread. It's got tons of advice for helping a warlock with the basics. (although it drifts off after that, which is perhaps why you posted the question again?) -- just go back to the first few pages.

1/21/39 Build
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=AzZcxczIbzZxx0tr0tVzN

Sacrifice succubus. Cast Curse, Corruption, Immolate, then shadowbolt spam. Use DotTimer to keep dots up.

This is my cast sequence as an affliction lock. CoS, imp HoT, UA, Corr, Immo, SB until he's back, Deathcoil, SB, Shadowburn. The CoS is key, as they have large resistances to Shadow and Fire.

You know thats an interesting build however why take soul leech over backlash? Wouldnt the extra crit be worth more in the long run? Also how does this compare to a pure affliction 41/2/x build in long fights DPS wise?

I tried a similar build although it was more of a DK build and it didnt seem to me to work so good for me or maybe I was missing the succy sac.

Backlash is 3% counted into the character sheet number (it's +crit to all, not just destro).

Depends on lots of stuff, of course, but you could drop Emberstorm and get both.

No you can't. 39 in destruction with 4 in 35 point talents (S&F) means a maximum of 5 point in 30 point talents (balcklash, conflagrate, and soul leech).

could you provide a good affliction rotation?

Also wanted to thank you for answering my question regarding the Leotheras demons. I was suprised to find that he was failing to kill the demon despite a fair amount of crits but most of which were being resisted. He was using agony and will start using Shadows.

If you mean good deep affliction (at least Siphon, good chance for UA) rotation - there is no such thing. Main problem is that in most of the fights you are moving and even if not, there is always chance you will have your DoT resisted (even with full Supression and good +hit). Moving or reapplying DoT breaks whole nice theoretical rotation. There is also Nightfall proc. that can pop up anytime, breaking your casting order. Add to that Lifetapping and Dark Pacting (both depend in efficiency on your gear) and you have too many variables to use any kind of long lasting rotation.

There are some basic guidelines on that though. You open with long lasting DoT (CoD/CoA/Siphon) then move to shorter (Corr, UA) and end with Immo. This way your initial "rotation" have big window to put SB in it without some DoTs running out too soon. After that, it all depends on the fight and situation around you. If you expect some sort of stun/DPS break soon, you should stack all your DoTs on target before, even if it means reapplying too early. If you are forced to move, you obviosly can reapply Corr/Siphon/CoA/CoD (and pray for Nightfall proc), but your other DoTs can't be used for a sec (so it's wise to reapply them before moving). And so on, and so on...

Basic rule is - get good DoT timer, keep your DoTs under control and be creative.

I feel really goofy asking this question, but why only 1 point in Improved Corruption in the (1/21/39) builds?

I would think that 2 points would be needed if the goal is to make it cast within the GCD.

Are people just relying on server sync lag to ignore that 0.1s over the GCD?

The return you get on the first point (.4 second cast time reduction) is much more significant than the second (.1 second cast time reduction).

And I assume people ran the numbers and decided that 1.6s Corruption was better than 1 more point in Shadow and Flame? Or would this vary as you got better geared?

in practice for me, 0/21/40 was the better dps. Plus no more running into range to cast corruption

In theory, casting corr+immo+SB with 1/21/39 is marginally better than with 0/21/40. In practice I haven't seen much of a difference.

In theory, casting immo+SB with 1/21/39 is a fair bit worse than with 0/21/40. In practice there is indeed a noticable difference.

In theory, immo+SB with 0/21/40 is worse than corr+immo+SB with 1/21/39, but it's only by a bit, and as noted above there are range issues.



I'm 1/21/39 but that's through inertia mostly, since I really keep meaning to be 0/21/40 and never remembering to respec (it's a marginal difference either way.)

The shorter corruption is darn convenient though when farming (because I'm so used to it being instant.) 2 seconds is a *long* time.

It's really a matter of taste though, none of the differences are that large.

Thank you very much for your help. This should help greatly.

I have another question which I don't believe has been answered here but I believe can be vital to playskill.

What abilities do you have bound to where and which do you have to click. It seems you would want SB as your most accessible button (depending how you play) then followed by- corruption- siphon- UA (for affliction)- life tap, fear, deathcoil, Howl of Terror, Immolate, darkpact and curse

As a hunter there were really only maybe 5-6 buttons that you needed good access too and bound. It seems an affliction warlock has almost twice that.

Also, do people typically macro their trinkets into spells or click them. From reading above it seems that in a typical rotation UA Corruption and Immolate will be up at roughly the same time quite often. It seems if you macro your trinkets to say UA that all 3 would get the benefit a fair amount of time. Also this can clear up UI room without having a trinket menu.

Everyone's different. And so I think you'll get as many different schemes as you get answers to this. And to a certain extent a person is only going to be efficient if they feel comfortable with their key layout. But I'll tell you mine, and maybe you can pick what sounds good out of it.

My spell quickbar arrangement is mostly due to how I received them as I leveled. That's to say, Shadowbolt is on 2, my three DoTs on 3 through 5, and so forth. But to fight the glut of Warlock buttons, I've done two things: hotkeyed lots of spells to key sequences, and gotten a Logitech MX1000 mouse with 5 *extra* buttons on it. And I've bound spells to each button, with and without the Alt key, so I essentially have 10 spells bound to my mouse.

I use Necrosis so that I don't have to spend screen real estate on buttons for summoning my pets, making healthstones/soulstones, or the spells I hardly ever use like the Eye of Kilrogg, Unending Breath, Sense Invisibility, and the like.

My trinkets I have bound to macro keys on my G15 keyboard, right next to my focus key and my focus seduce macro key - two different keys: one activates my first slot trinket(s) [I swap in a trinket with +hit for boss fights] and Blood Fury. My second key activates my other trinket and Blood Fury. I also have on-screen buttons showing the cooldowns so I can see when to mash the button (though to be sure, mashing it once in a while has no negative effect) - I suppose to be more efficient I should tie the trinkets in to casting spells, that way they'd be firing all the time automatically.

I also use Power Auras to show when any of my miscellaneous buffs is active (the Spellstrike, 2 piece Voidheart, Blood Fury, trinket, or Shadow Trance).

During a fight I typically start with the following (I have fairly large hands so I don't mind having to move em around a little):

Pop trinket (left hand pinky)
Unstable Affliction (7)
Instant Corruption (3)
Immolate (4)
Siphon Life (Mouse button 5 - hit by thumb)
Curse of Agony (5)
Shadowbolt spam (2)
Dark Pact (mouse button 1 - hit by left index finger) or LifeTap (mouse button 1Alt - press alt with left thumb and hit mouse button 1).

Watch all of that with DotTimer and refresh as necessary, which is typically UA then Immo, Corr, CoA then SL. Lifetap/Dark Pact when necessary - trying to Dark Pact only when the imp is over half mana.

So basically I'm typing 7, 3, 4, 5, mouse5, mouse1, 2, 2, 2, mouse1, 7, 4, alt+mouse1, 3, 5, 2, 2, 2, 2, alt+mouse1. Yes, UA/Immo/Corr will often times expire at the same time, but there's no getting around that. That's what something like DoTTimer is good for, to let you see when they're going away so you can plan when to refresh.

I have Death Coil/Shadowburn bound to mouse button 2 (plain/+alt), Fear/Howl of Terror bound to mouse button 3 (plain/alt) and banish/hellfire bound to mouse button 4.

I typically use spell slot 1 on my main quickbar for whatever custom spell I need for the fight at hand - Curse of Tongues or Shadows, or Banish (though all my curses are also bound to Ctrl+first letter of word, so Ctrl+S is Curse of Shadows, Ctrl+T is Curse of Tongues, and so forth).

I have a 2nd quickbar of every other spell I use bound to Ctrl-1 through Ctrl-=. The only one I use a lot though is Soulshatter (Ctrl-3). Most of the other ones are utility spells used infrequently.

I also use a /stopcasting macro for my shadowbolt spell for the 2 button. It seems to help, but you have to train yourself to stop mashing it over and over, which is how I did it when I was leveling. Takes a bit of practice to get used to that.

The big thing about my setup is that I can lifetap/dark pact on the move, without having to move my hands from their default positions (left hand WASD, right hand on mouse). I can also Death Coil or Siphon Life easily while moving since they're on mouse buttons independent from my movement keys.

One thing I also do if we're just in a "burn em down" type of pull (that's to say, where I don't have to do anything special) is set my focus to target #2 - so I can be blasting away on target #1, and when it gets really low on life (so low that it's not worth renewing dots or casting a SB, I click on my focus and start DoTing it up (I use ag_Unitframes and show the focus frame).

Of course, most important is using something like DoTTimer to ensure your DoTs are continually up, and that you're not renewing them too soon. I think you can play with just about ANY kind of setup, UI wise, but if you mess up your DoT rotation, you'll be hurting your damage output significantly.

Hope that wasn't too rambly, and that you could glean something useful from it!

Rotation when using CoE or any long duration curse, CoS/CoE etc, UA, Corr, SL Immo. UA and Corr fall off at about the same time and if you time it right you can apply then both again as they go from 1sec to 0 on the DoTimer. Then immediately cast Immo because it will be about to drop. Obviously when no dots need refreshing you need to SB LT DP etc. Try to save LT and DP for when Dots are up, preferably right after a reapplication of UA, Corr, Imm. SL is 30 sec so refresh when necessary. Always try and keep all Dots up as much as possible and anticipate changes. If Leo is about to cast inner demons, you might want to refresh all dots on the boss a little early so you can get as much dps in as possible before your possible inner demon spawns. Lets face it, mana is not a problem with affliction. I havent used a mana pot, well....ever. When using CoA or CoD, you must find a way to work them in the rotation. depending on the boss or encounter, i like to use CoD if i am not on CoE, CoS duty. It gives me more time to SB and i only have to reapply it once a min, plus if you dont out dps someone you can always brag about your 30k amp doom on mag.

To the person complaining about his locks performance:
860 shadow dmg is extremely low for raiding. Im assuming that is without fel armor but even 960 is embarrassing. I think im at 1257 or so with just fel armor up and im far from geared. If hes willing to put in the time, i would suggest leveling tailoring, depending on how far you have progressed. The tailoring set pretty much owns most gear until vashj robe and the eye, BT, MH loot. Also what you suggested is good. Tell him to pick shadow or fire. Shadow is much more practical with the way synergy is with shadowpriests etc, plus ISB is possibly the best thing ever. If he wants to go affliction, have him watch a good vid of an affliction warlock with a good dot rotation. Id be happy to hit up Dr Boom and make one for you if you want. Not saying mine is perfect but it works.

Kinda OT but does anyone else rape the meters as affliction on Leo. Last night was our 3rd or 4th kill and we killed him in around 7 min. I was ~3% above the rest of the guild. The only other lock was tanking Leo so i cant compare my damage to him but i would think that mages and hunters might beat me. The more i do this fight, the better i get at timing dots etc and the more i realize its tailor made for affliction. Human phase and WW last long enough for you to get a full UA, Corr Imm and CoA(if you lucky enough) rotation off. I keep up SL all the time because the dmg isnt enough to pull aggro when WW stops and all other dots are off when WW is over anyways. Anyways im done rambling. back to work.

Yes, obviously. I guess I assumed the build was posted for Shadow pve, so you'd drop conflag and go 3/3 Backlash, 2/3 Soul leech (or the other way around if you want a bit more mana).

But, if you're only going to pick one, Backlash is by far the better choice.

I see the sacrifice strategy mentioned quite a bit and I certainly don't doubt the impact on the warlock's DPS. However, it puzzles me that such a build is heavily premised on always being able to sacrifice your demon when it seems like you'd still want at least one lock to keep his/her imp out for the Main Tank group. Does no one use Blood Pact these days?

That's what affliction locks are for. The alternative raid spec's are generally only promoted when you're bumping up against the debuff limit - in which case, crit based shadow destro builds are nice b/c they really don't eat up a lot of debuff slots, contribute greatly to ISB uptime, and *can* do respectable damage - plus you arent slapped with the vulnerability that demon spec's have of needing to keep a pet alive (wru T5 bonus).