Sorry that link was referring to the conflagorate part of the question, I should have iterated that in my post.

The other point about dropping Corruption and Immolate from your 0/21/40 rotation that I haven't seen made yet is that neither of those spells does anything to keep ISB up, which is half of what your contribution to the raid should be. The other half of your raid contribution is a high DPS to debuff ratio. By casting Immolate and Corruption as 0/21/40, you needlessly take up 2 valuable debuff slots. This will be a real problem for raids who have 2-3 mages, 2-3 shadow priests and 2-3 warlocks, which I imagine makes up the majority of 25 man raid configurations (give or take a spot or two). Better to keep those debuff slots opened up for your Affliction brothers and sisters, as they are the ones who are providing Imps/Shadow Embrace/Malediction so that you don't have to and can just pewpewpew the whole fight.

Even this theory I don't like. A destruction warlock that has the intelligence to burn a GCD during movement on a fight rather then while he's standing still will most likely burn that GCD on a lifetap. Trading a lifetap GCD for a Conflag GCD can't be a good trade off in most situations. (By the time immolate hits a point it *might* be worth popping when you move you'll most likely have burned enough mana to get a full tap.)

Conflag is a neat idea and used to be pretty lethal to use in pvp before resilience was introduced into the game. Now about the only purpose it serves is as a final cast on trash mobs or while farming. If a mob is going to live the extra two seconds it would take to cast and land a shadow bolt instead of a conflag that's what you should be using, even on trash mobs. The damage you lose in such situations by using conflag over shadow bolt is immediate.

To the guy who originally asked the question. You have to realize that a lot of the idea that conflag is worth using (and even that fire is a viable way to dps for a warlock in a raid) comes from a few destruction warlocks in a top end guild. Even one of these warlocks said that she knows conflag isn't worth using in a casting rotation and mentioned that the only reason she uses it is because she likes fire destruction and she likes being able to change up her casting rotation. In other words, it's fun for her, and she likes it. If it works for you that's great, but there's no maximum dps rotation that includes conflag because casting conflag instead of just about anything else is almost always a dps loss.

hey I have a question. I recently respecced destruction. My guild has mostly ssc on farm and is working on vash. I feel like affliction did more dps and ssc/tk support affliction more. My gear is good enough for destruction but on every encounter I feel affliction would do better. Do you think my gear is good enough/ Destro would be better atm for ssc/tk or do you think affliction will still outperform?

Also one last thing does anyone know a good destruction build for kiting striders on vash.

A warlock kiting striders is a colossal waste of raid dps for vashj.

"Feeling" is subjective. If you want to know stuff, use WWS logs before and after your respec, and compare dps.

In my experience, with TK/SSC gear, destruction warlocks outdamage affliction ones, in every raid I've been in. Your mileage may vary, obviously.

But I'm 100% sure it hinges more on the player and gear than on spec. In the end, if you play your spec right, your dps will be acceptable regardless of whether you're affliction, demo or destro. As long as the spec is reasonable: the compendium outlines the good ones.

If you prefer playing affliction, and your damage is high enough, you should be that, really. High enough means "near the top of the meter" in SSC/TK. Hyjal and BT is where rogues finally get the gear to beat warlocks consistently.


0/21/40 is the default all round build for destro, it produces the highest dps. If you're learning Vashj and want a build specifically for kiting striders, I'd suggest 5 points Emberstorm, 3 points Searing Pain and Shadowfury, supported by some affliction (Corruption, Imp Life Tap) and Demonology (Demonic Embrace/Blood Pact).

This is my first post here, so hi everyone!

I have a small question: Im an aff lock specced 41/3/17 atm for maximum raid utility, and i was wondering where the barrier really sits on when to stop immolate. Already im probably guilty of using it more than i should do, but its annoying because it fits so nicely into my DoT string.

My shadow damage (unfbuffed) is 1260, and my fire 971. thats a 289 difference which seems pretty big to me. FOr raids i use Flask of Pure death, spell damage food and wizard oil, so it should be the same difference fully buffed.

Sorry if this is posted somewhere else, but it seems a bit drastic having to read 95 pages of this stuff.

Thanks!

I am Affliction spec and my boots are currently Frozen Shadoweave Boots. I'm considering buying a Boots of Blasting pattern on the ah, but it's god damned pricy and I was wondering if it's worth getting.

Frozen Shadoweave Boots w/2 Veiled Noble Topaz

15 stam
9 int
67 damage
8 hit

Boots of Blasting

25 stam
25 int
39 damage
18 hit
25 crit

Going from FSW boots to Boots of Blasting:

+10 stam
+16 int
-28 damage
+10 hit
+25 crit

As an Affliction lock in a raid, that seems worth it, right? I think so...I do throw alot of Shadow Bolts, and anything critting is more ISB procs, but I do lose a chunk of damage. Opinions?

Use the leulier spreadsheet, takes about 10 minutes to set up and you've got your answer.

Also read the forum rules before posting.

It'd be worth it for me, but I ain't hitcapped. If you are hitcapped, probably stay with FSW.
Also, would this break the setbonus? Then I'd probably stay with FSW regardless, unless your healers are frighteningly quick even on minimal heals for single lifetaps.

Stay with FSW until you get [Boots of the Shifting Nightmare] or the pattern drops for your raid. In my oppinion it's not worth buying it from the AH unless it's like 200 gold or you respec destruction.

I've noticed several people mention swapping gear for trash and boss fights. I realize it's less important to be hit capped for non-boss fights, but how much of a difference does swapping gear make? Also, what are more important stats for non-boss fights other than just spell damage?

I am currently affliction, and I've pretty much resigned myself to not worrying so much about dps or damage during trash fights since affliction is not really designed to max out on damage/dps for mobs that live for 15-20 seconds. Should I really be concerned about swapping gear? Also, realize we have done VR a couple of times only and have yet to down him, so I have a small taste of what trash is like beyond Gruul/Mags.

The diffrence for me is about +70 spelldamage and +0.40% crit when I drop my hitrating to 103, or 8.16%. I'd say that's worth it since it takes about 2 seconds if you have an addon for changing gear. Everything above 5% hit is really a waste on trash.

I try as hard as I can on trash, and on alot of trash you CAN be close to the top. Like on the trash before Alar's room, where you have to sheep/tank everything, you can throw dots up on everything that is being tanked then go nuts on whatever, I've gotten #1 on damage (via WWS) on trash before during a run where we killed VR this way. If everybody tried harder to do more damage on trash that speeds up clears, gives you more time on bosses.

I miss being affliction for trash for the reason the above poster mentions. For many pulls (at least in ssc/tk), you can easily get away with 3 tanked targets. In that case, affliction can be one of the most damaging specs on trash for locks. Swap out excess hit gear in favor of pure +damage if you can. Use the same logic you do when dotting a single target and cast the highest DPCT spell you can. If you can spend a pull casting just corr/ua/coa that go most of their full length, your DPS will be nuts. Slip a Doom on one of the last mobs if the pull goes longer than 60sec.

In order to maximize your trash damage, you should know how long each DoT needs to tick in order for it to be worth casting over a shadow bolt. Doesn't take too long with the spreadsheet linked above.

Stop.

If you are being relied upon to provide CoS for boss fights, then you have no reason to spec Destruction. You are only gimping yourself and the rest of your raid by not having Malediction. That extra 3% may not seem like much, but I bet your mages are getting it from Imp CoE from your other Warlock in the raid; hence they outperform you.

Destruction is a bonus spec, imo, for when you already have your Affliction bases covered and want to increase ISB uptime and add another lock without creating debuff limit issues.

Lieuler's spreadsheet really would answer 99% of these questions... Put your stats in there, change them according to gear alternatives you have, and see if your DPS goes up or down...

The problem I'm having is one of education. Every bosspull I go through the A = CoS, B = CoE, C = CoR, I'm destro, so dumped CoD.

And every time, I see 3 x CoA.

It got to the point that i respecced UA again. Why should I have the same conversation for the 6th week in a row when the answers I got were "Your not topping our damage, why should we do it?".

Worth noting, after the respecc, taddaaa, top of the meters again.

As an aside, is there a way to show ISB uptime in WWS or am I an idiot who can't see?

If they don't understand that you putting CoS buffs their damage while they don't buff yours and that's more than enough of an excuse for them to have up to 10% (13% with malediction) more DPS than you? Granted it's not exactly 10/13% of total dps without CoS due to misery and shadow weaving but pretty close.
It's like the enhancement shaman that puts down agility totem for the warriors and rogues and doesn't even spec improved weapon totems. With such a self-centered approach to raiding I fail to see how you can make much progress.
Not to mention it had been said many times in this thread CoD>CoA if the mob lives for at least 60 seconds.

If people don't listen to curse assignments, nothing in a post can change that.


WWS cannot show imp SB very well, since all Warlocks should be able to put it up. However, the mod Shadowseer shows what imp SB is doing.

One question, I am currently Affliction spec, and I am thinking if it's worth buying Belt of Blasting or wait for 2.3 and get Voodoo-woven Belt. I am currently using Sash of Serpentra atm.

Also, I have capped my +hit and I am thinking to lose some of the +dmg gem for +crit as SB is 30-40% of my overall dps, any thoughts?

I also intend to stay Affliction as long as I could, but many of us are Destruction spec, so I am really not sure if I should change spec to Destruction or not.

Care to explain why? Our warlock who does it has no problem keeping his aggro high on the strider and also keeping up his dots up on the elite.