Arelenda

CoA? Are they insane? CoE is debatable, sure, it depends on the amount of fire mages, which are pretty rare pre 2.3). But CoS? How is it now obvious that that will produce more raid dps?

CoA is like 4k damage over 24 seconds. CoS equals that amount provided you do 40000 damage over 24 seconds with the entire raid. In other words, 1666 shadow dps, or about two warlock's worth. And uh, you know, CoS lasts 5 minutes, CoA needs to be reapplied every 24s.

If people are that clueless, any attempt at improving your personal dps will be lost in the sea of bad play in your raid. Talk to your raid/community leader. If he doesn't get them to shape up, I'd look for a new community.

 

Scud121

As I was trying to point out, all they seem concerned with is personal place in the recount meter.

I had to argue for nearly 2 weeks for them to let a retadin join the raid in favor of a mediocre rogue.....

 

Nas

Quoted for truth. Having people with that mentality in a raid is extremely detrimental to progression, and keeping them in the raid would simply be unfair to those who genuinely want to progress with their guild and are willing to do what it takes. I would have a chat to your officers/GM - and if nothing changes, I would personally do what Arelenda suggested.

 

Fafhrd

You should use the dps spreadsheet to find more about this.
But generally I think you need about 450 more shadow damage than fire damage to make it a dps gain to drop Immolate. You'll be hard pressed to reach that, so Immolate will always be a part of your rotation as an affliction warlock.

 

Dondarion

@Scud: I would tell your warlocks, GMs, and officers to come to this thread (and particularly this part of it), and have them read the responses. If they still want to be clueless and not listen to reason, find yourself a new guild because you're just setting yourself up for long-time frustration.

 

Ruanur

Not sure if it was discussed in this thread but that's 95 pages I don't have time to read =P On all my characters I use the site lootzor.com - World of Warcraft search and rate items - profile your wow character to help me pick and choose gear. Was wondering if anyone had any rating for a destro lock's stats I could use for it?

 

Eph

I've mentioned this earlier, have you tried searching for it? You can get the exact numbers from the spreadsheet by entering your personal stats, but what I used was:

0.0 stm
0.2 int
1.0 dmg/shadow dmg
1.2 hit
0.6 crit

 

Gumibear

Warlocks are pretty much the best class for killing elementals. They can cover a far wider section of stairs than any other class because it only takes 3 dots (or 2 and a shadowbolt for destruction) to make sure an elemental dies before reaching Vashj. Since a Warlock needs little or no time standing still, depending on spec, to kill an elemental, they are the ideal class for killing the elementals.

I've seen Shadow Priests perform the role of an Affliction Warlock to kite striders effectively. VE aggro is actually advantageous for the phase.

 

Telkster

If you've hit capped, does it make sense to make hit a value of 1 as well? Since in most cases you'll probably just be regemming and switching 4/5 for 0/9? Or doing similar switches with pieces of gear? Or is this just a quick initial and flawed thought?

Boo creepy foot doctor! Hooray beer!

 

Ruanur

Maybe I'm crazy, but wouldn't you just switch the values of crit and hit once you're hit capped?

 

rochan

Maybe you're both crazy and if hit capped, +hit is worth 0

 

Telkster

Um... no, because getting a piece of gear with higher than previous hit makes itemization in other slots and gem slots possible. ie. getting 11 more hit in your shoulder slot makes it possible to switch out that Tirisfal Wand of Ascendancy for the Black Stalk. Or similar situations with gems in other slots.

Boo creepy foot doctor! Hooray beer!

 

Lumines

Are they simply ignoring you? I don't understand why some officers decide to be hardass about everything and won't give little things a chance. You'll be amaze on how the little buffs(BM hunters, ret pally, elem shamans) could help dps. The only thing the officer in my guild won't try are moonkins lol

Traek for Moonkin '08!

 

galzohar

Problem with hit once capped, is that the amount of spell damage you can increase by increasing hit depends greatly on your gear and how much hit is under discussion. You have to do a case-by-case analisis for each item that has hit once you're hit capped, although it gets much simpler when the highest hit->damage conversion item swaps are hit gems to damage gems. That gives a 1:1 ratio though, some item swaps will give you more than 1 spell damge per 1 hit rating since when you picked that item you picked it by 1 hit rating = 1.2 damage, so once you get hit elsewhere you might find, say, an item that swaps 1 hit to 1.1 damage which used to be bad but with the new hit item is actually better.
Bottom line is value of +hit while capped isn't simple at all, and is only 1 hit = 1 damage if the only swaps you're going to make are 5 damage 4 hit gems -> 9 damage gems, and even then if you're *exactly* at the hit cap, gaining 2 hit rating doesn't give 2 spell damage, it gives -2 hit rating +4 spell damage for a total (based on his numbers, you should use your own for your gear) +1.6 damage equivalent.

 

Ruanur

He'll try a ret pally but not a moonkin? Wow....

 

Eph

I still value hit after capped and have found the easiest way to balance between all gear is to total the point value for all gear and switch the wand and shoulders or whatever to find the highest gear point value while hit capped. This a little bit easier to do when compiling an 'end game' set, while going through kara, ssc, etc there are alot more items to consider.

 

rochan

Ahh yes, the warlock gear puzzle. I find using a spreadsheet similar to the one Altyera made: (another) DPS Spreadsheet helpful to decide what gear to use.

As for hit over the cap, I suppose you are right in that it will give the bonus of whatever you can swap for the gained hit. But I was also correct in that any +hit gained over the cap is worthless UNLESS you can swap it out for other stats.

 

galzohar

Also remember when considering a gain of an item with hit in terms of "DPS increase per DKP spent", that the other item you need to get to replace your other hit item will also cost more DKP if you don't already have it.

 

Trickykid

I'm not sure how BT/MH works out, but a large amount of the fights in ssc/tk have non-boss level mobs involved. And most of those the adds are the crucial part of the fight, not boss-DPS. Hit-gear will still be great for bosses, but it's worth noting when you consider which upgrades to buy and what sacrifices you're making on your "trash" set. I see locks on Tidewalker or Fathomlord with max hit gear on, which is a considerable waste considering where most of their damage (and raid-value) comes from in those fights.

 

galzohar

Problem is that maintaining such gearset for the small benefit in those fights is quite difficult. I wouldn't expect anyone to get an alternative FSW set or bid on expensive sidegrades just for those fights. If you have it or it's possible to get outside of raids then definitely use it for fights where the majority is a non-boss DPS.
Remember that on tidewalker, most of the fight you do DPS the boss, plus as far as I know AOEs don't scale well with spell damage anyway. On lurker killing lurker faster means less add waves, etc etc. So on many fights you have hit having a lower point value, how much lower depends on the fight though and the change to the hit value will rarely make or break the difference in your gear choices if you consider that the different gear also needs to be attaineable.

 

Trickykid

Well sure, if DKP is a restricting factor... pick up what you feel will benefit you the most. I wasn't saying throw all your hitgear in the garbage and gear up for trash. I'm just commenting that there are given portions of boss fights that will see no gains from hit-rating. If 25% of your damage on bosses comes from non-bosses, then hit rating is potentially worth that much less than a spreadsheet aimed at just level73s would say. Calculating that out may make some of those "sidegrades" more appealing.

It's not worth dwelling on though, just a comment :P

 

galzohar

I wasn't claiming one should do 1 thing or the other, was just giving pointers to what you should take into consideration when picking an item, then sum it all up and see if the item is worth it or not

 

Telkster

Oh I'll definitely agree with you there. I pity the person who actually argues against you in that respect.

Boo creepy foot doctor! Hooray beer!

 

Krathis

This applies to most add fights in the game. The less you hit Morogrim the more adds you'll have to deal with, same with Solarian. Not sure what level the demons Leo spawns are but the philosophy would apply there too (I tank Leo so have never been able to experience the inner demons). On Hydross I generally bounce seeds of Hyrdoss himself to make sure all the adds are dropping as quickly as possible. Kael's advisers are level 73, not sure on the weapons.

That said though, the faster adds drop the more dps time you have on a boss (in most fights) generally making hit even less valuable on such fights.

On the other hand aoe doesn't scale all that well with spell damage but seed of corruption can crit so swapping hit out for crit might be viable in those situations assuming you have the gear to make the swap possible.

 

clavarnway

I don't see the point in not using hit gear in those fights, doesn't Seed of Corruption get very little benefit from +dmg which is our main AOE spell?

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