Unless your raid has planned perfectly to avoid it, if you see 40 debuffs up it's very likely something was knocked off. The only way you could really tell is if you throw a DoT/curse up there and it drops off of your DoTimer before expiration.

I suggest you use Demon to monitor debuffs.
Demon - Debuff Monitor (pDebuffList2)

Forgive me if someone has already gone over this, I just found this board and I haven't been able to read everything yet, but does anyone know when you should click spell damage trinkets to boost dots? I always thought that you had to click the trinket before the dot or other spell cast, but other people tell me that trinketing just before CoD goes off, rather than when you cast it, is the way to go. Which one is correct?

Spell damage is calculated on cast, not on hit.

Is it just me or are the bosses in ZA especially resistant to shadow damage? To be more precise, Akil'zon was resisting more than 30% of my shadow damage (I did not have CoS up for him and I don't have any spell penetration on my gear). Jan'alai was also fairly resistant, but I don't have the WWS for that fight.

Nope. It's calculated at spellcast completion. There's a post about it in the compendium thread.

Update: full detail on what counts when are found here

I think thats what he meant.

Anyone that uses Pitbull Unit frames I suggest you use the filter function that comes with it. It is a great tool for when your things get knocked off.

My unit frame in a 25 man raid will show Warlock only debuffs and shadow increasing debuffs (Shadow Weaving). I found it to declutter my screen a lot and it gives me all the debuff information I need. Most importantly I instantly know when my Curse or another locks curse falls off.

I've been wondering, I use demonology/Demo build with CoS for raiding, and with the high amount of badges easily available now, I was wondering if the haste gear was worth getting over things with higher spell dmg etc.

I see lots of the late end game items with haste, and I was wondering if I should be gearing to go that direction, usually, most of my dmg output is done by shadow bolts and am kind of just entering 25 man content and wondering what to use my badges for.

You can dig up Leulier's spreadsheet in the (another)Warlock Spreadsheet thread and fiddle with numbers yourself. My guess is, it's good for demonology because it increases shadowbolt damage (the bulk of your personal damage) by around the same amout as hit does. It does funky things with ISB uptime though--it makes your contribution to the weighted-raid-average-crit-chance higher, which can be good or bad depending on if that's better or worse than your personal numbers atm. It doesn't buff your demon at all, which is the one thing that spell damage has on it, and the main reason I would recomend running it through a spreadsheet.

I use the demon to sacrifice, so my pet is non existant when I raid, so Im not to sure, where can I find this, can anyone post a quick link? Thanks in advance.

I've been playing around with a ton of haste gear lately and found myself very surprised at how well it's working for me. I'm also Demo for raiding 0/44/17(Destro atm from doing AVs) and despite the fact that I dropped literally a ton of spell hit for it, it doesn't seem to be affecting my dps at all. I can't give you any math really to back it up, only speaking from personal experience. Now if only my pet can scale from my haste.... =)

Wow, thanks for that incredibly contributory post.

How about you guys leave this thread alone and use the compendium one.

Hi! Since most of this already been coverd i thought i'd throw in my two cents, spellrotation has alot with how well a warlock can end up on your meters, a basic spellrotation that i personally use is Curse of Agony, Unstable Affliction, Corruption and Immolate.

I do not include Siphon Life into this spellrotation mainly cause of two things.

1. Mana inefficeny
2. "Slows down ure dps".

So what i do instead is that when i feel i have time like when i move and such i always put it up, since it's not that huge dps i don't feel i have to put it up straight away, i generally time it so when i've finished applying Immolate in my rotation i put it up, this will roughly allow you to go through two full cycles before reapplying it thus not wasteing any mana. Hope this have helped.

If you do it this way your UA and your Immolate will end at the same time, and that's bad imho. I though it was already covered in this topic, but well :-/

With your current gear and spec, Siphon Life does considerably more damage per cast than Immolate, at a lower mana cost. If you can afford the debuff slot, your dps should increase by maintaining SL.

The one case where it may lower your dps is if you insist on casting spells in a strict order, instead of recasting as each expires. If you prefer a strict rotation, you will likely prefer the playstyle of a 0/21/40 spec.

I strongly recommend you check out the DPS spreadsheet in http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10065-a...s_spreadsheet/. It should help you determine your best options.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Shadow and Flame merely increases the spell damage coefficient by 20%, regardless of your gear.

I may not have expressed myself clearly.

You have 1000 spell dmg, 1200 shadow spell dmg.
Without shadow and flame, your SB dmg is calculated like this:
base dmg + 1200 * 3/3.5

Now with shadow and flame, is it:
base dmg + 1200 * 3/3.5 + 1000 * 3/3.5 * 0.2
or
base dmg + 1200 * 3/3.5 * 1.2

It's assumed to be the latter, and I'd like to see any calculations made to prove it differently.

Tested this in SMV, 0/21/40, no sacrifice, no external buffs.

Gearset: 434 generic spell + 337 shadow.

If S&F accounts for shadow damage, then we would expect SB (base 544 to 607) to hit for
base + 1.057 * (434 + 337) = base + 814.9 = range(1359, 1422)

If not, we would expect
base + 1.057 * 434 + 0.857 * 337 = base + 747.5 = range(1291, 1355)

Results from 5 shadow bolts: 1362, 1393, 1385, 1376, 1406.

I think this conclusively proves S&F correctly adds all shadow damage.

That is right. Also run some tests and it proved that S&F takes the shadow spell dmg into account, not spell dmg.

Thanks for your interest.

Actually, it is "base damage" + "shadow damage" * (3/3.5 + 0.2), for all "empowered" talent types with that kind of wording. Makes the coefficient 1.057 like in the calculation above.

As far as I know, the damage is capped as the base non-crit damage on the targets that get hit and do not resist fully.
That means at the cap, +crit and +haste (if not GCD capped) improve AoE damage, +damage and +hit do not.

Also, self-buff multipliers do not improve it (Arcane Power does not, so I assume that Power Infusion, Demonic Sacrifice, Shadow Power, etc.) do not help either.

When some AoE targets have CoS/Misery on them, they take more damage than those who do not have it. I think those mob debuffs increase increase total damage just like +crit does, but I'm not sure. Could be tested in The Stockades I guess.

Also, I wouldn't say that +damage sees lousy returns on +damage - it gets half of what a direct damage spell of the same type would get. Half full, half empty - your choice how to see it