[Warlock] how do you do high DPS? - Page 98

Daxe · 12/22/07, 8:20 PM

First of all I ain't sure if this has been discussed earlier in this thread or in any other threads.. tried to look up for one but couldnt find any so it made me wonder..

How does spell penetration work for destruction wlock (0/21/40) in PvE?

I mean, is CoS enough or do i have to stack some more such as enchanting spell penetration enchant on my cloak instead of subtlety?
Is there a spell penetration 'cap' or something like that?
Of course there are many bosses which have more spell resist than normal ones, such as Supremus(fire resist), but im interested in those 'normal' ones, for example Teron Gorefiend.

Arnath · 12/22/07, 9:28 PM

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17008-w...ng_compendium/

Look around before making posts.

Daxe · 12/23/07, 3:47 PM

Apparently i wasn't careful enough : /

Ratamahatta · 01/21/08, 8:48 PM

Hello everyone,

I'm at a 0/21/40 build, SSC clear, currently working on Kael. I have three pieces of the tier 5 set (head, shoulders, legs) and I was thinking about the t5 hands and the second set bonus. Is it worth it? I'm wearing the hands for heroic badges which are quite nice and way better than t5 hands alone. If the set bonus is great I could switch the hands, if I don't depend on the second bonus I would probably switch the head as well for the one from ZA.

Another thing I am not sure about: Is it worth to keep immolate and corruption in my rotation assuming I don't have aggro problems? Might be a bit boring if not

Thanks in advance from Germany

Trickykid · 01/21/08, 9:23 PM

Your post:

Originally Posted by Ratamahatta

Hello everyone,

I'm at a 0/21/40 build, SSC clear, currently working on Kael. I have three pieces of the tier 5 set (head, shoulders, legs) and I was thinking about the t5 hands and the second set bonus. Is it worth it? I'm wearing the hands for heroic badges which are quite nice and way better than t5 hands alone. If the set bonus is great I could switch the hands, if I don't depend on the second bonus I would probably switch the head as well for the one from ZA.

Another thing I am not sure about: Is it worth to keep immolate and corruption in my rotation assuming I don't have aggro problems? Might be a bit boring if not

Thanks in advance from Germany

Two posts above yours:

Originally Posted by Arnath

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17008-w...ng_compendium/

Look around before making posts.

The other thread has a good opening post that goes over most things -- if you still have questions, the thread contains almost every lock discussion, so read up.

Ratamahatta · 01/22/08, 9:44 AM

Originally Posted by Trickykid

The other thread has a good opening post that goes over most things -- if you still have questions, the thread contains almost every lock discussion, so read up.

Concerning immolate and corruption you are perfectly right. Such topics have been discussed and I will look it up for my special case. For the 4/5 tier 5 bonus I didn't find a really satisfying answer. Within the compendium at page 7 there is a short post about dps increase of ashtongue with 4/5 t5. It's stated, that 4/5 t5 does an increase of about 8 dps. I can't believe that this is really it. Was it probably fixed so it not only applies to corruption before spelldamage? Would be great to hear experiences about this bonus.

best regards

calisti · 01/22/08, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Ratamahatta

Concerning immolate and corruption you are perfectly right. Such topics have been discussed and I will look it up for my special case. For the 4/5 tier 5 bonus I didn't find a really satisfying answer. Within the compendium at page 7 there is a short post about dps increase of ashtongue with 4/5 t5. It's stated, that 4/5 t5 does an increase of about 8 dps. I can't believe that this is really it. Was it probably fixed so it not only applies to corruption before spelldamage? Would be great to hear experiences about this bonus.

The information on the 4 piece T5 bonus can be found in the PvE Compendium, its just hidden. If you look under the trinkets section you'll find a link the Warlock Trinket Simulation Wiki on shadowpriest.com. All of the warlock set bonuses are included in the list.

Arelenda · 01/22/08, 12:40 PM

I would actually like to add the 4p T5 bonus to the compendium, if I got a clear definition of what exactly it does. For now, all I know for sure "it sucks". Any warlock out there that can give me a solid description? I don't have 4p T5 myself and likely never will.

Stran · 01/22/08, 4:35 PM

Originally Posted by Arelenda

I would actually like to add the 4p T5 bonus to the compendium, if I got a clear definition of what exactly it does. For now, all I know for sure "it sucks". Any warlock out there that can give me a solid description? I don't have 4p T5 myself and likely never will.

I do not have the data to support it but here is what I have observed.

T5 4 piece bonus adds 10% to the BASE damage of corruption.

If you have a coruption active, and hit the same target with a shadowbolt, at hit time the corruption gains a 10% damage bonus to it's base damage (without +damage bonuses). Subsequent hits of shadowbolts add aditional 10% to the base damage. This bonus is only applied to the current application of corruption. The bonus is applied to all subsequent ticks remaining.

If I remember I will tets it tonight, will have to dig out my pants out of the bank I suppose.

Vinniepaz · 01/22/08, 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by soob

Im a druid, it seems I know very little about locks sadly. But I also lead raids so I need to know more >.<

I keep seeing references to locks doing 900+ DPS on Gruul. Yet our locks arent anywhere near the top of the DPS charts even with a shadowpriest.

I can't help but think they are doing something wrong in PVE DPS. I don't think it's gear with them having 1000 +dmg or approaching that. They are all Affliction afaik. So can someone tell me what it is that locks use as a high sustained DPS attack style? Is it timing on DOTs? Combo moves? Special talents?

Can some really good DPS locks give me a rundown on their attack method please?

Thanks for any help you can give.

I find a question (and some response to this) are a bit loaded.

Fact is dps can vary depending on the fight, gear AND spec. But I'll talk about me.

I have just about 950 shadow dmg w/ Fel Armour, I'm specced 40/0/21. In Gruuls I can get 700 dps on the 'trash Brutes' and upwards of like 'almost' 800dps on the overall raid. Granted I just started raiding and still am adjudting my rotation (timing wise). My rotation is COA -> Corruption -> Siphon Life -> Immo -> SB's.

Any fights that have a few good AOE fights (Dinner quests for Moroes, Opera Quests) I can get nicely into the 1,000 dps with "seed - tab - seed - tab - seed tab" rotation.

Hope this helps.

Trickykid · 01/22/08, 5:00 PM

Originally Posted by Vinniepaz

I find a question (and some response to this) are a bit loaded.

This is why we should let this thread die out :P The original post is almost 10 months old. Most relevant info is included in the new thread and any discussions that continue should probably happen there so that we keep the knowledge as centered as possible.

Stran · 01/22/08, 5:04 PM

Originally Posted by Stran

I do not have the data to support it but here is what I have observed.

T5 4 piece bonus adds 10% to the BASE damage of corruption.

If you have a coruption active, and hit the same target with a shadowbolt, at hit time the corruption gains a 10% damage bonus to it's base damage (without +damage bonuses). Subsequent hits of shadowbolts add aditional 10% to the base damage. This bonus is only applied to the current application of corruption. The bonus is applied to all subsequent ticks remaining.

If I remember I will tets it tonight, will have to dig out my pants out of the bank I suppose.

With affliction locks the key stat is dot uptime. Dots should remain up at least 90% of the time. what this means is, a 18 second dot should be refreshed asap but good locks will do it within 2 seconds of it dropping off.

Priority needs to be given to the "better dots" such as Corr, UA and curse of choice.

For this, dot timers are a necesity, tell your locks to get a dot timer mod. Then they can start casting UA even before it is gone.

Keep in mind it's a LOSS of DPS to refresh dots before they complete. Any free time should be spend shadowbolting or mana taping/dark pacting. Dark pacting and manataping should be done often and not in bursts.

Using trinkets at the START of their dot rotation helps boost their damage as the damage bonus is locked in for the duration of the dot.

With all that in mind, for grull, they should be mindfull of the events around them. It is actualy a gain in DPS if they refresh dots just before a shatter.

• frmorrison · 01/22/08, 7:44 PM

Originally Posted by Stran

I do not have the data to support it but here is what I have observed.

T5 4 piece bonus adds 10% to the BASE damage of corruption.

This is right.

Here is a log showing the effect of 4 Tier 5: I had like 1100 damage and 25 crit with 21/40 build, using max rank corruption and rank 1 bolt. I have a crit in there to show that the set bonus is affected by stuff like the 20% more shadow talent and it is affected by CoS, not not by +damage. Unsure about the 10% or 15% shadow damage talents affects it (I had a VW out).

1/22 18:17:59.890 Ironspine Chomper is afflicted by Corruption.
1/22 18:18:02.187 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 72 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:02.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 332 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:04.296 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 75 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:05.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 348 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:06.390 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 73 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:08.562 Ironspine Chomper suffers 367 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:08.578 Your Shadow Bolt crits Ironspine Chomper for 145 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:09.484 Ironspine Chomper is afflicted by Shadow Vulnerability.
1/22 18:18:11.265 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 87 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:11.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 464 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:13.421 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 87 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:14.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 520 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:15.015 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 90 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:16.703 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 90 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:16.703 Shadow Vulnerability fades from Ironspine Chomper.
1/22 18:18:17.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 489 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:17.906 Corruption fades from Ironspine Chomper.
1/22 18:19:04.156 Your Shadow Bolt hits Warp Stalker for 74 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:19:05.140 Warp Stalker suffers 332 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:19:06.125 Your Shadow Bolt hits Warp Stalker for 74 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:19:08.171 Warp Stalker suffers 349 Shadow damage from your Corruption.

Arelenda · 01/23/08, 7:54 AM

I can't make out the mechanics based on this. If anyone can, feel free to explain it to me. I'll update the compendium stating that "it adds 16 damage per tic remaining to your corruption" is a good estimate.

Originally Posted by frmorrison

This is right.

Here is a log showing the effect of 4 Tier 5: I had like 1100 damage and 25 crit with 21/40 build, using max rank corruption and rank 1 bolt. I have a crit in there to show that the set bonus is affected by stuff like the 20% more shadow talent and it is affected by CoS, not not by +damage. Unsure about the 10% or 15% shadow damage talents affects it (I had a VW out).

1/22 18:17:59.890 Ironspine Chomper is afflicted by Corruption.
1/22 18:18:02.187 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 72 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:02.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 332 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:04.296 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 75 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:05.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 348 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:06.390 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 73 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:08.562 Ironspine Chomper suffers 367 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:08.578 Your Shadow Bolt crits Ironspine Chomper for 145 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:09.484 Ironspine Chomper is afflicted by Shadow Vulnerability.
1/22 18:18:11.265 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 87 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:11.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 464 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:13.421 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 87 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:14.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 520 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:15.015 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 90 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:16.703 Your Shadow Bolt hits Ironspine Chomper for 90 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:18:16.703 Shadow Vulnerability fades from Ironspine Chomper.
1/22 18:18:17.546 Ironspine Chomper suffers 489 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:18:17.906 Corruption fades from Ironspine Chomper.
1/22 18:19:04.156 Your Shadow Bolt hits Warp Stalker for 74 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:19:05.140 Warp Stalker suffers 332 Shadow damage from your Corruption.
1/22 18:19:06.125 Your Shadow Bolt hits Warp Stalker for 74 Shadow damage.
1/22 18:19:08.171 Warp Stalker suffers 349 Shadow damage from your Corruption.

• frmorrison · 01/23/08, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by Arelenda

I can't make out the mechanics based on this.

The set bonus adds to the base damage of 900, so that is 150 damage a tic, then it gets modified by about 15 each Shadow bolt and it stacks 15 each time you cast shadow bolt, for a maximum of 6 times (for an extra 90 damage to the last tic), assuming you cast 6 SB while Corruption was up (without instant corruption), you would have added 315 damage to your corruption.

Ratamahatta · 01/25/08, 12:25 PM

Wow, 315 added Damage per Corruption sucks a lot. That's about 17,5 DPS added. I already loose 17 Spelldamage when changing to T5 Gloves.

Shadowpriest.com rates the bonus at +32.4 Damage for 0/21/40, which is a lot more. Anyone has an idea where the difference comes from? Does the setbonus possibly profit from ISB?

Trickykid · 01/25/08, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ratamahatta

Wow, 315 added Damage per Corruption sucks a lot. That's about 17,5 DPS added. I already loose 17 Spelldamage when changing to T5 Gloves.

Shadowpriest.com rates the bonus at +32.4 Damage for 0/21/40, which is a lot more. Anyone has an idea where the difference comes from? Does the setbonus possibly profit from ISB?

315 raw damage added. Misery, SW, CoS and DS multiply that out.
315*1.05*1.1*1.1*1.15 = 460.2
With a two second dot gap that's ~23 DPS.
With my gear I gain 0.84 dps from each +damage, so 23 dps = 27.4 +damage. Still not 32, but they may have been using a larger bonus to Corruption.

• frmorrison · 01/25/08, 7:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ratamahatta

Shadowpriest.com rates the bonus at +32.4 Damage for 0/21/40, which is a lot more. Anyone has an idea where the difference comes from? Does the setbonus possibly profit from ISB?

Not sure how edits the Lock section of that site, but it is incorrect. First off, 21/40 would never cast Corruption. It is possible to cast 7 SB (taking 17.5 seconds), but due to the travel time of SB plus normal lag, I don't believe the 7th SB would ever land in time to proc another 10% base Corruption damage. That is part of the error.

The set bonus is affected by raid debuffs like imp SB and CoS.

krazykr0w · 01/28/08, 1:13 AM

I'm certain I will receive many a tongue lashing since I'm nub to these forums and probably repeating someone else's

question, but w/92 pages of Warlock forum pages, I got keyboard face halfway through.

What is the Best Raid Spec for A Warlock Doing SSC Content with the gear to do so 4/5 T4/S3 ? Maintaining max

dps w/whichever build is not an issue, I've experimented a lot w/ the many popular builds, and am probably

more confused than ever. Do we change spec as we advance in End game content or is there an overall superior

build?

Go easy on the Stupid Jokes please!!

Talosh · 01/28/08, 5:31 AM

Originally Posted by krazykr0w

I'm certain I will receive many a tongue lashing since I'm nub to these forums and probably repeating someone else's question, but w/92 pages of Warlock forum pages, I got keyboard face halfway through.

What is the Best Raid Spec for A Warlock Doing SSC Content with the gear to do so 4/5 T4/S3 ? Maintaining max dps w/whichever build is not an issue, I've experimented a lot w/ the many popular builds, and am probably more confused than ever. Do we change spec as we advance in End game content or is there an overall superior build?

Go easy on the Stupid Jokes please!!

Try the Excel file posted at: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10065-a...s_spreadsheet/

There is no 'best' spec for a warlock, since you're raid wants one to be the 'supporter'-affliction warlock who run a bit less dps. If one warlock can grab two pieces of T5 and is very good in handling his pet, he probably does more dps with demo (and also can tank Leo/KT).

Type in your stats in the excel sheet, play a bit with the talents and find the best that suits for you personally.

Bolche · 01/28/08, 6:03 AM

Before I add it to the spreadsheet : does anyone know or can test if the 4/5 T5 is affected by talents (SM, Contagion, Emberstorm, SL, MD) ?
And another question : in the following scenarii :
A)
t=0 : SB leaves your hand
t=0 : you cast corruption (instant)
t=1 : SB lands
t=3 : 1st corruption tic

B)
t=0 : SB leaves your hand
t=0 : you start casting corruption
t=1 : SB lands
t=2 : you finish casting corruption
t=5 : 1st corruption tic

Does the first tic of corruption get the +10% base damage ?

PHeliak · 02/15/08, 6:34 AM

The main part of this topic is about our DPS Cycle. But i've a question about trinket and how it affetcs DOTs.
For exemple, let's talk about "Scryer's Bloodgem".

How does it really work ?
I mean : will the boost dmg be applyed on Dots i will cast during the Bloodgem's effect and will last until the dot is off ? (for exemple, if i cast UA > Corruption during the last 4 sec of the effect, will it still be effective for the whole dot duration ?)

Or will the effect be active only during de bloodgem's effect (15sec) for DOT casted during the effect, or be active for 15 sec but for alls dot on the mob, even if i casted them before ?

The may be usefull to know, so i can time to maximize effect for Agony/Doom.

Thanks,
Pheliak.

laseen · 02/15/08, 9:00 AM

Could you not even look back just one page?

http://elitistjerks.com/556350-post2406.html references http://elitistjerks.com/523423-post164.html where it states:

Testing proves:

for nukes: (Shadow Bolt, Soul Fire, etc)
Spellpower AND Multiplier are measured at the COMPLETION of cast.
If it's a projectile, it'll start traveling at that point.

for dots (Corruption, UA, etc)
Spellpower "locked in" at completion of cast.
Multiplier reevaluated per tic

for channeled spells: (Drain Life, Hellfire)
Spellpower is "locked" at START of cast.
Multiplier is recalculated at every tic.

So if you want to maximize the effectiveness of your dots then cast them after you've used your trinket but before the effect runs out.