laforce

Did anyone test this on PTR ?

I just got it yesterday and I'm a bit worried concerning the proc rate.. I tested on a 12min fight and it only proc'd 16 times.. thats 1.2 times per minute.. also, I tested it on the rogue spreadsheet and it's worse than Bladefist's Breadth.. jesus christ, that's an item level 88 vs. level 128! There must be something wrong..!

I'd appreciate comments.

 

Cel

http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.p...oil#post351893

Fair bit of discussion regarding proc rate and such starting with this post onward... perhaps some before.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

laforce

OMG.. it really sucks. REAAAAAAAAAAALLY sucks. The spreadsheet is 100% correct, it's even worse than Bladefist's Breadth (Blue, quest-reward level 62 easily obtained)..

40 minutes of combat with a Servant, and it proc'd 24 times, out of 827 shivs (that,s 2.9% proc!!)

Math time:
24 procs x 15 sec duration = 360 sec = 6min
6min / 40min = 0,15 x 100 = 15%
That means it stays up 15% of the fight duration.. an average of 150 armor penetration.. jesus christ...

Worse than every other trinket out that, cant believe it.. the proc rate would have to be at least 3x higher in order to be a good trinket. AT LEAST.

 

laforce

I withadraw what I said before, after some INTENSE testing, I have to say that this trinket is very good indeed.. my tests results were:

Test #1: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=b4qr3w6uh1cns&m
Duration: 10:00 minutes
Trinkets: Bladefist's Breadth + Drakefang Talisman
DPS: 795dps

Test #2: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=udu6fw4634brw&m
Duration: 10:04 minutes
Trinkets: Warp-Spring Coil + Drakefang Talisman
DPS: 813dps
Total procs of WSC: 9
WSC Uptime: 9 x 15sec = 135 secs..
% Time up: 135/604sec = 0.2235 x 100 = 22,35% of the time up.
Average armor reduction: 223.50 armor reduction.
Proc%: 9/(SS + Evis + Swordspec*) = 9/271 = 0.0332 x 100 = 3,32% proc-rate.

I performed my tests on a Servant of Razelikh, using a 5s/5e cycle, trinket (on test #1), BF and AR always when available, on both tests you can see that BF and AR were used equally (5 times and 2 times). Both tests were done using only poisons, Deadly on MH, Instant on OH.

*I also noticed that the trinket CAN proc off a Sword spec hit:

5/11 23:06:25.687 Your Sinister Strike hits Servant of Razelikh for 511.
5/11 23:06:25.687 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 172.
5/11 23:06:26.890 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 178.
5/11 23:06:27.312 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 360.
5/11 23:06:27.718 Your Sword Specialization hits Servant of Razelikh for 339.
5/11 23:06:28.125 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 192.
5/11 23:06:28.515 You gain Perceived Weakness.

Side note: There were NO missed hits on this mob WHATSOVER (well, he's like 15 levels behind me heh), so.. the +21hit did absolutely NO DIFFERENCE, and I still got +18dps using this rather than using Bladefist, can you imagine what difference would this make on a lvl 73 boss? So I think the spreadsheet is way off, since it gives me even less DPS with the WSC than with the Bladefist, but we do need more testing, this trinket is available for free on the PTR

And I say again, this results were against a low-level mob (lvl 57) and the +21hit did absolutely no difference, but against a lbl71-73 (bosses), would certainly do a lot of difference, that's around +1,3% hit... ;P

 

MasterDinadan

Ah but there is one other thing to consider. The lower level mob has less armor, therefore the armor penetration has more of an effect than it would on a high level mob with more armor.

 

• tsigo

Does it consider Slice and Dice an "attack" for purposes of the proc?

 

gakutomagnum

The spreadsheet isn't even accurate. It's mainly simulated. But as for Warp-Spring Coil vs Bladefists... you're on crack. There is no competition.

 

Sokkou

Good question, would make the 1s/5r cut cycle even more appealing.

 

Telani

I doubt it, SnD only works as a self buff as of TBC. It used to actually be a targeted effect that would pull a mob from 100 yards if you had combo points on them.

 

• Wodin

In 2.1 it's the third best trinket, after Dragonspine(by a large margin), and Tsunami Talisman. Yeah, the proc rate sorta sucks, but it's a relatively powerful proc.

 

laforce

The buff is good, but it's not good enough since it doesnt proc enough ;/

 

laforce

Also, if it's the 3rd best trinket, the spreadsheet is WAY off.

 

Tosa

As far as I can tell, the spreadsheet models it as a passive -125 armor regardless of build and gear. That's probably not really accurate because specials per second won't be the same for every rogue. For it to be third best in the sheet, I think it would be at least -300 armor.

 

Cottonface

I did a 500 Sinister Strike test on both Normal Realm and PTR of Warp-Spring Coil. I only used Sinister Strike attacks. Neither Slice & Dice nor any finishing moves were used. I only registred Sword Specialization and Sinister Strikes, and ofc Perceived Weakness, using ProcMeter. It was tested on Ogres in Nagrad. Weapons used were Hope Ender and Gladiator's Quickblade (1.8 NR / 1.5 PTR). Average DpS on Ogres were according to SWS 589 DpS.

Normal Realm
Sinister Strike: 500
Sword Specialization: 92
Perceived Weakness: 21 (3.547% - aprx 3.5%)

PTR
Sinister Strike: 500
Sword Specialization: 96
Perceived Weakness: 59 (9.899% - aprx 10%)

Assuming (simplified) an attack cycle of 5 Sinister Strikes per 20 seconds, with Combat Potency, 500 Sinister Strikes would be aprx 2000 seconds. While there may be a statistically variable, which either increases or decreases the data, during long fights, the data here suggests

Uptime: 59 x 15 sec = 885 seconds
% Uptime: 885 / 2000 = 0.4425 x 100 = 44,25%
Average armor reduction: 442.50 armor reduction.
Increased DpS @ 1000 Armor: 3.25%

 

Svidrigailov

Combat Log:
5/20 15:26:59.203 You gain Slice and Dice.
5/20 15:26:59.796 Servant of Razelikh hits you for 108.
5/20 15:27:00.000 You crit Servant of Razelikh for 294.
5/20 15:27:00.218 You crit Servant of Razelikh for 867.
5/20 15:27:00.718 Your Healing Potion heals you for 2154.
5/20 15:27:01.656 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 163.
5/20 15:27:01.656 Servant of Razelikh attacks. You dodge.
5/20 15:27:02.640 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 452.
5/20 15:27:02.734 You crit Servant of Razelikh for 278.
5/20 15:27:03.031 Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Razelikh for 778.
5/20 15:27:03.640 You gain Perceived Weakness.
5/20 15:27:03.640 Servant of Razelikh hits you for 100.
5/20 15:27:03.828 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 160.
5/20 15:27:04.437 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
5/20 15:27:04.671 You crit Servant of Razelikh for 1006.

[Edit]Previously established in the thread, ignore me. =)

 

Fifty

Really appreciate the info Cottonface, the only part of your uptime calculation im curious about is tho, have you considered the 30s hidden cooldown, or simply, extended the time frame of you test?

Howmuch wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

 

laforce

WoW!

Did they buff it or something? Coz i tested on PTR like 2 weeks ago and it was a 2.9% procrate I believe... if it's 10%, it rules!

 

Cottonface

As the test was done on single mobs, the 30 second hidden cool down was encountered, but isn't part of the data as such, as there was no time frame. However, according to Duskmourn post, his Warp-Spring Coild procced 32 seconds after first proc

which means, that the proc is included in the hidden cool down. So while the the tricket is active for 885 seconds due to 59 procs, the hidden cooldown is active for 59x30 = 1770 seconds, which is less than the 2000 seconds (estimated) for 5 Sinister Strikes, and as such, if perfect proc (first SS after cd), the duration would thus still be 2000 seconds.

Uptime: 59 x 15 sec = 885 seconds
Hidden Cooldown: 59 x 30 = 1770 seconds
Time needed for 500 Sinister Strikes = 2000 seconds
% Uptime: 885 / 2000 = 0.4425 x 100 = 44,25%
Optimal Uptime: 885 / (1770+59) = 0.4838 x 100 = 48,38%
Average armor reduction: 483,80 armor reduction.
Increased DpS @ 1000 Armor: 3.56%

 

Baltazur

Did some simple testing myself (10 min grind), and a rough calculation on hidden CD and came up with ~300 armor reduction on average. Your calculation is alot more accurate, but good to see that I wasnt far off.

What do you mean with this?
Is this the increased dps from the average armor reduction (332,10) that we can expect on a raid boss?

 

Fifty

I believe that is the dps increase while the Percieved Weakness aka -1000 armor buff is active.

Howmuch wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

 

Baltazur

That would mean that u get an average dps-increase of 2.4%x33% = 0.8%, which would be kinda bad imho.

 

Duskmourn

http://www.thottbot.com/test/s37173 READ IT.
25%proc chance + 30 second hidden CD equals a bit less than 30 second uptime. so 442 Armor seems pretty close to being accurate to me.
Is dragonspine still the same as it was before? Haven't had time to retest it.

 

Svidrigailov

I tested Dragonspine sometime last week on PTR, and aside from the 40 ap buff it seems to be unchanged.

 

• Aldriana

I did some short tests a couple days ago and found that Dragonspine can still refresh procs (I observed it happening several times), and didn't notice any particular difference in proc rate.

 

Thillis

Quite honestly I’m surprised this hasn’t seen any new and remarkable changes on PTR that I saw. Gruul’s trinket was given passive Attack Power and many are still bitter over our class BWL trinket.