Duskmourn

Dragonspine is the new Drakefang, in that every melee or AP using class wants it, but only one boss drops it. We had enough bad luck with Drake Fang and we're seeing the same for this. 9-10 Gruul kills and no Dragonspine so far /jealous.

 

Fielding

Wondering if anybody else has had a chance to test this out? I picked it up for min DKP the other night. I currently have Abacus, Bloodlust, Romulo's and now Warpspring. (Damn Gruul and that damn trinket).

When I have both Romulo's and Warpspring on I am at 304 hit, just to add that. My AP is about 1690 and crit is around 26%, unbuffed.

I'm wondering if I should bother using warpsring? I haven't installed procwatch yet, but just eyeing the buff it seems to be up a decent amount. From what I understand Armor reduction is asymptotical and therefore when fighting mobs with less armor I will see higher gains.

To sum it up, should I use this at all? Situationally? Where does it rank amongst the trinkets I listed above. I'd like to see some more data about this =) Thanks.

 

• Wodin

Yes. Of the trinkets listed I would probably use Bloodlust/Warpspring, but you might run some comparisons with Romulo's in the place of Bloodlust to doublecheck that the proc rate hasn't been increased past the effective threshold of Bloodlust.

 

• Aldriana

The rogue gear spreadsheet (Rogue Gear Spreadsheet) has fairly detailed models of the trinkets in question; I would recommend plugging in your gear and seeing what it recommends. It's focusing mostly on the sustained dps situation so there maybe circumstances where the others are useful, but in terms of which gives best sustained dps you should be able to get at least some sort of answer out of it.

 

Fielding

Yeah, I tried using the newest version of your spreadsheet, but it wouldn't let me select an offhand dagger, so I gave up due to the information being inacurate. I am an avid user of pf's, but I've read that the trinket isn't modeled correctly.

How is the trinket modeled in for your spreadsheet?

Romulo's seems to be procing quite often and the 31hit is really nice for me since I'm still under the hit cap, especially after taking a loss in hit while picking up the new stranger shoulders. (10dagger skill is pretty nice with the new asumption on weapon skill).

Anybody have any opinions on Bloodlust Vs Warp Spring for those of you lucky enough to have Dragonspine? Which one do you use with it?

Thanks for all the input.

 

• Aldriana

I assume you're using OpenOffice? That's a bug that we're aware of but haven't been able to track down yet. Give us another couple versions .

It computes the number of special attacks you launch per second, uses that to compute the time between procs (which is basically 30 + 4/(atts per second)) and then uses that to get uptime. In the end it scores competitively with a number of the other trinkets in question.

So, the thing is, with Dragonspine Trophy the value of +hit skyrockets, so Bloodlust stops being very appealing. As long as you're benefitting from the full +hit on R+J, it tends to be optimal. WSC is fairly competitive as well, as is Abacus, but I have a hard time imagining using Bloodlust Brooch, myself.

 

Fielding

Thanks for the reply Aldriana. I am indeed using Open Office. =/ Hope something gets worked out, because I'd really like to add your spreadsheet to my arensal of tools.

Again, I appreciate all the information, appreciate it Aldriana and Wodin. I'm kind of a hit junkie, so like you said, I find it hard to see bloodlust being optimal.

 

LiteSabre

I picked this up the other day and tried it out for an entire SSC run, from entrance to Vashj. I was led to believe that this had a 25% proc rate, with a 30 second forced CD? Surprisingly, while I never got it to refresh itself, I do distinctly remember it ending and then proccing again before one of my mongoose buffs faded. Even supposing that mongoose refreshed itself while I wasn't looking, that's far less than the 30 seconds I was led to believe. Has anyone really tried this intensively on live servers to see if maybe it hasn't been changed yet again?

While I wasn't running procwatch, my impression was that the proc rate was substantially high, but not quite 25%. Somewhere around the range of 15 to 20. Again, no procwatch so this is all anecdotal, but I do distinctly remember that buff popping up again before 30 seoncds were up.

 

Zerix

According to Thottbot the proc rate is 25%

http://www.thottbot.com/s37173

Still just a meh trinket all around for the most part. If it was given 40 passive AP then it might become attractive, until then I'm sure most of the rogues are just randoming between each other in the raid to see who ends up with it .

 

Fandy

I picked up the Warp-Spring Coil last week, was testing it out. Obviously it reads to only proc off special attacks, so SS, Mute, BS, Hemo. Definately not worth using on a non-Mutilate build, I promise you. Each Mutilate hit has a chance to proc the Coil, which is probably the only reason I would use it. Last Magtheridon, it proc'd 27 times, while my Dragonspine Trophy proc'd 23 times. Having a very constant 1000 AC ignore is pretty substantial for DPS, blew away the raid having top dps by 211k over 2nd :\

But then again, Mutilate won't work on Void Reaver or Hydross, so respecing twice a week is fun, but that's for another day to rant about

I dont have any numbers to prove my assumptions, but trying it as combat daggers vs. Mutilate was a very easily noticable difference in proc rate.

 

Grimmlokk

Not sure if this has been covered yet, but does the new Sword Spec proc it? Since it's a yellow attack now and all. Seems kinda important to know for choosing this=)

 

Gogge

Post #4 and #15 seems to indicate so.

 

laforce

Did they buff this trinket? Post #35 said it proc'd 27 times on Magtheridon? That's a 9min fight... that means 1 proc every 20 sec? And it lasts for 15sec... Didnt it have an internal cooldown?

15 sec X 27 procs = 6min 45sec on a 9min fight isnt bad AT ALL....

Could someone update me? Thanks!

 

ainav

I just got WSC tonight and went to Blasted Lands for some testing over Servent Of Raz
what i saw was that 1st of there is no hidden 30cd timer cuz couple of time the proc popped up like 10 or less seconds after the previous proc wear off and 2nd i tested my dps with Hourglass and after that with WSC
useing the same rotation i finished with 974 dps for 5 min fight with hourglass and 985dps with WSC so basicly considering i have around 260 hit rating it turns out that this trinket is nothing so special maybe with full raid buffs + wf totem it will be more useful tho but from what i saw unbuffed it increased my dps with less then 10dps overall
i regret now i didnt just waited for tsunami

 

Fifty

Could anyone confirm PTR rumors saying the trinket got buffed along with confirming it either has or hasn't internal cooldown, or simply lead me to a post answering the questions, valid for 2.1.1, as i was unable to find any myself.

Howmuch wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?

 

todesbote

imo warpsrping-coil is still the 2nd best trinket for rogues in game.
it sucked pre 2.1 but with the 21 extra hit rating and the new acceptable procrate it really exceeds the Tsunami Talisman.... no new changes on PTR though

 

Cel

What are the numbers you're basing this off of? I picked up the trinket this week, and it seems good enough... at least an upgrade over Romulo's Poison Vial which I was using. I am fist spec, so my proc uptime will not be the same as a Mutilate rogue, but it's not poor uptime at least. My problem is I really don't know it's exact value, so it's difficult to know what would be an upgrade for me.

I started this (http://savefile.com/projects/808501840) silly little spreadsheet to try to figure out what benefit the trinket is giving me, but I'm blocked as to where to go next with my modelling... I don't know how I'll set up the proc to figure out the armor reduction value over time.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

Cel

I finally decided to do some testing. Not sure what the proc rate is, but my initial guess is that it has an internal cooldown which is definitely not more than 30 seconds.

15-Jun 26:51.6 You gain Perceived Weakness.
15-Jun 28:01.8 You gain Perceived Weakness. (01:10.2 difference)
15-Jun 28:37.7 You gain Perceived Weakness. (00:35.9 difference)
15-Jun 29:29.5 You gain Perceived Weakness. (00:51.8 difference)
15-Jun 30:28.0 You gain Perceived Weakness. (00:58.5 difference)
15-Jun 31:00.6 You gain Perceived Weakness. (00:32.6 difference)
15-Jun 31:34.6 You gain Perceived Weakness. (00:34.0 difference)
15-Jun 32:52.5 You gain Perceived Weakness. (01:17.8 difference)

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

Drakul

I believe this is the correct way to model it, one of the rogues in my guild got into a discussion with me about when it is best to use it.

If it proccd perfectly i.e. 30 secs / 60 secs = 50% up time.

I'd say it it's closer to a 38% Uptime.

1000 armor is beneficial based on which boss you are fighting

5000 armor = 32% Reduction

4000 armor = 27% Reduction

(32-27)5% Damage for 15 seconds @ 38% Uptime

.05 * .38 = .019 = ~2% Damage increase

950 DPS * 1.02 = 969 DPS (19 DPS Increase)

So even on a boss with fairly high armor, 5000, the trinket is viable considering it gains 19 DPS just from the proc. Now obviously, the more damage you do, the more valuble the trinket is, which is why it is so amazing. Anything that scales with your crit / hit / haste is going to be excellent for a trinket slot.

Now if you really want to take into consideration how beast the trinket really is, take a look at Astromancer.

I estimate she has about 1500 Armor = 12.44% Reduction

With trinket active, 500 Armor = 4.52% Reduction

7.92% Damage Increase

7.92 * 38% Uptime = 3% Dmg Increase full time

950 * 1.03 = 978.5 DPS (28.5 DPS Increase)

And on High Astro probably doing around 1100 -1200 DPS

1150 * 1.03 = 1184.5 (34.5 DPS Increase)

 

Dyz

I have had the trinket before and after the patch. It was banked prepatch. However, since then with its 21 Hit Rating and the Proc, its pretty decent in terms of dps value for a trinket slot.

Generally I notice its up about 30 seconds of every 60. With proc watch running, I have never had it proc 2 times in under 30 seconds. So my opinion is it has the 30 second internal cooldown from when it procs.

 

Killars

This man is obviously chubby and has a huge nostril, but he is correct.

There was a post comparing this trinket with Tsunami Tailisman, Dragonspine, Abacus, ect. The post valued WSC pretty low, it was set to be worse than Romeo's Poison Vail and Abacus. Obviously Dragonspine > all but id still like to see a spreadsheet or a decent comparison of how well this trinket stacks up to the others.

 

thingol

That post was probably before the proc rate was adjusted. Now I believe it is a 25% chance proc with a 30ish second hidden cd. Which places it right amongst the top trinkets. Id say its probably DST > Madness > TT > WSC > Abacus > BB

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....t&s5=Dodge&v=2

 

Herb

Damage increase for different (perceived) armor values is calculated like this:

DPS_old = DPS_raw x (100% - DR_old)

DPS_new = DPS_raw x (100% - DR_new)

DPS_increase = DPS_new / DPS_old - 100% = (100% - DR_new) / (100% - DR_old) - 100%

(e.g. going from 0% to 50% DR, DPS will be halved, and the same is true for going from 50% to 75% DR).


Drakul's examples above thus become:

5000 armor -> 4000 armor == 32% DR -> 27% DR == 7.35% more damage

1500 armor -> 500 armor == 12.44% DR -> 4.52% DR == 9.04% more damage

 

Duskmourn

I'll get procwatch again and DL the latest test realm and test it with max hit and see what it does. By the way it procs off of any ability. I forgot to SS it, but it's basically like spellsurge. Sap, Feint, whatever on a target.

WSC.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


This was done using a 1s/5evis cycle for 75% of it and a 1s/5r 25% I just randomly switched cycles. I may have slightly messed up after being done. This is on live atm.

 

Duskmourn

no change on test. using 1s/5r cycle.