For a better shot at accuracy, follow these steps:
a) Check how far from the expertise cap you are (if < 44 rating)
b) Check the EP value for expertise for your gear level (This should be cell I11 on the DamageCalcs sheet in version 0.9.5)
c) Multiply the answer from (a) times (b).
d) Add 92 (approximate proc value in EP) to the answer from (c).
e) Copy Bezerker's Call, rename to Shard of Contempt, and put it in as a passive attack trinket with Attack power equal to the answer from (d).
Of course this will miss a lot of the subtleties, but in general it will give you a fairly good notion of how good it is for you at your gear level.
Out of curiosity, I checked how far off the 92 AP approximation is from actually adding the APProc to the sheet, which takes a good bit more effort. The 92 AP average seems to be a very very close approximation of the actual proc value. (With my gear the difference is only 0.01 DPS. Messing around with other gear, the difference can be more noticeable, but always less than 2 DSP.) If people are anxious to rate the Shard, Shaker's method of adding it will be ample for determining its rank amongst the trinkets.
Last edited by Havenwood : 04/23/08 at 9:18 PM.
Reason: Changed "a good bit less than 1 DPS" to "less than 2 DPS" as it turns out I didn't try enough gear variations--particularly Sunwell loot.
Not calling you out specifically, but as a reference to you, the other people who've previously posted comments of this sort, and anyone else who was thinking about it: I added a new entry to the FAQ in the first post to address this.
OK i Tried searching for this for like a hour and just firgured it would be easier just to ask. I am Currently sword spec with blade of Infamy and s2 OH. I was wondering if it would be on dps wise to switch to fist spec and get those vanirs. Or go Fist/sword. Guild is currently doing BT and Archi but havent gotten to Illidan yet. I have enough badges for them, Or should I just spend those badges on the other items.. Just looking for some feedback . Thankyou all.
OK i Tried searching for this for like a hour and just firgured it would be easier just to ask. I am Currently sword spec with blade of Infamy and s2 OH. I was wondering if it would be on dps wise to switch to fist spec and get those vanirs. Or go Fist/sword. Guild is currently doing BT and Archi but havent gotten to Illidan yet. I have enough badges for them, Or should I just spend those badges on the other items.. Just looking for some feedback . Thankyou all.
OK i Tried searching for this for like a hour and just firgured it would be easier just to ask. I am Currently sword spec with blade of Infamy and s2 OH. I was wondering if it would be on dps wise to switch to fist spec and get those vanirs. Or go Fist/sword. Guild is currently doing BT and Archi but havent gotten to Illidan yet. I have enough badges for them, Or should I just spend those badges on the other items.. Just looking for some feedback . Thankyou all.
Please read through the first posts on this thread, the Roguecraft 101 thread, and then the last 5 pages of each thread. The answers to all your wildest ideas and questions will magically appear in about 20 minutes max. Either you were somehow reading the wrong thread or through a spat of bad luck completely missed the conversations of the last 3 weeks that mention these new fists every 5 posts or so.
If you're still in doubt, then use a spreadsheet and input the items yourself to see how they rate vs your current gear.
It has been said somewhere here before that haste will always be worth the same. Altho, if I input for example Carapace of Sun and Shadow in the sheet which has 38 haste rating, it lowers the value of Blade of Life's Inevitability which also has haste on it(just a bit tho). Why is that?
I also tried to input other haste containing items all of them have the same effect. Do I have some settings f'd up or does haste actually get weaker at some point? Sorry if this has been discussed alrdy, didn't find anything tho...
Well, when you're changing out pieces of gear, a lot of stats tend to change at once and it's not always clear what causes what. So that in particular doesn't really worry me. But in terms of the general question:
Measured in DPS, haste has no diminishing returns. Measures in EP, it does. Each point of haste provides (basically) the exact same DPS benefit as the one before (modulo minor details of poison stacking and the like)... but it *increases* the value of each point of AP, so the number of points of AP needed to equal one point of haste goes down slightly.
It has been said somewhere here before that haste will always be worth the same. Altho, if I input for example Carapace of Sun and Shadow in the sheet which has 38 haste rating, it lowers the value of Blade of Life's Inevitability which also has haste on it(just a bit tho). Why is that?
I also tried to input other haste containing items all of them have the same effect. Do I have some settings f'd up or does haste actually get weaker at some point? Sorry if this has been discussed alrdy, didn't find anything tho...
It's not that haste gets weaker, but instead your OTHER stats get stronger while haste remains the same. Since stats are usually compared against attack power when using EP systems, that means that since attack power's value increases when you obtain more haste, the EP value of haste decreases.
However, a lower EP value does not actually indicate a lower DPS gain.
Okay , i think it wasnt noted here. So i got exhalted trinket from Shattered Sun offensive and i am exhalted scryer. The chance to proc aint high and i think theres an internal cooldown, but im pretty sure the arcane damage uses melee crit chance , i crit 700+ all the time :P. Didnt test on bosses or anything yet.
Tested it a bit, seems to have a ~45 second internal cooldown and indeed looks like it uses melee crit chance. That should put it below Choker of Vile Intent, right?
Aldor - 200 attack power @ 20% uptime (very similar proc mechanics to many other things that come up to 40% uptime, but half the duration) = 40 attack power = ~12 DPS at my gear level.
Scryer - 500 dmg strike that fires ~1.1 times per minute (assuming the same proc mechanics as the aldor version, 45s cooldown and high chance to proc once off cooldown) and has a chance to crit. Assuming 30% crit, you end up with 500 * 1.1 * 1.3 = 715, divided by 60 seconds = 11.92 dps.
Dunno, sounds pretty similar to me.
That's comparing Aldor vs Scryer versions - obviously as gear improves (specifically more haste is tossed on), the Aldor version will scale better than the Scryer version, but at the early T6 level, they're relatively similar (AND both of them beat out Choker of Vile Intent, if very slightly), and by the late T6 level you should have access to better. Since it's probably targetted at "people who got unlucky with necklace drops" and "casuals", I think it was pretty well done.
So to answer the question, it's slightly better (at early T6 levels, I'm showing ~5 EP higher) than Choker of Vile Intent. The neck off Supremus toasts it however.
I added it to the sheet as a 18 agi, 19 sta, 104 atk neck, for what it's worth.
I've got another question!
What would you do if you can't go into instances very often, but need a better items than Sure-Step Boots and Spymistress' Wristguards?
I've got another question!
What would you do if you can't go into instances very often, but need a better items than Sure-Step Boots and Spymistress' Wristguards?
I've got another question!
What would you do if you can't go into instances very often, but need a better items than Sure-Step Boots and Spymistress' Wristguards?
Do more instances. There isn't a lot of gear you can get without requiring you to step foot into instances. Maybe a few crafted here and there if you buy AH patterns. Or maybe pvp some, I think S3 are better than what you got despite being pvp items.
I've got another question!
What would you do if you can't go into instances very often, but need a better items than Sure-Step Boots and Spymistress' Wristguards?
Do instances more often, hire IGE to do instances for you, or focus your instancing on places that actually drop upgrades?
In the case of the boots, for example, the crafted Fel Leather Boots are a very nice upgrade over the sure-step.
Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.
The OH Sword rule does have a somewhat implicit assumption that your dealing with weapons of roughly equal quality; having a sword in OH certainly does add a significant amount of DPS... but then, having a higher DPS weapon clearly adds DPS too. I don't think anyone's going to argue that the new MH fist isn't better than, like, Iblis.
That said: I'm a *bit* surprised that Arena 1 OH Sword isn't good enough to pull ahead - I'd've guessed that it would take a somewhat larger quality difference. Then again, I trust the spreadsheet, so if that's what it's saying, I guess it might be worth doing.
That said: I'm a *bit* surprised that Arena 1 OH Sword isn't good enough to pull ahead - I'd've guessed that it would take a somewhat larger quality difference. Then again, I trust the spreadsheet, so if that's what it's saying, I guess it might be worth doing.
Don't take my word for it, plug in the talents/weapons into the spreadsheet and make sure I'm doing it right. If Fist/Sword (Badge Fist/S1 Sword) is better than I'd prefer it, as I'd get to save my badges for the other gear.
Thanks to the post above me for also doing a comparison between them, looks like I have more badges to spend after all.
Hmm, one of us is doing something wrong, because I just checked my S2 quickblade vs. the badge OH and it wasn't even close. As in, adding the fist offhand lowered my DPS by 10, which is pretty huge given that moving from S2 MH/OH to badge MH/S2 OH only raised it 20dps in the first place.
04/03/08, 4:48 PM
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