Havenwood

Out of curiosity, I checked how far off the 92 AP approximation is from actually adding the APProc to the sheet, which takes a good bit more effort. The 92 AP average seems to be a very very close approximation of the actual proc value. (With my gear the difference is only 0.01 DPS. Messing around with other gear, the difference can be more noticeable, but always less than 2 DSP.) If people are anxious to rate the Shard, Shaker's method of adding it will be ample for determining its rank amongst the trinkets.

 

Nimh

A couple of weapons are missing: [Claw of Molten Fury] and [Fist of Molten Fury].

How would the 2 set bonus (The Fists of Fury - Item Sets - World of Warcraft) be incorporated into the spreadsheet?

 

• Aldriana

Not calling you out specifically, but as a reference to you, the other people who've previously posted comments of this sort, and anyone else who was thinking about it: I added a new entry to the FAQ in the first post to address this.

 

TYious

OK i Tried searching for this for like a hour and just firgured it would be easier just to ask. I am Currently sword spec with blade of Infamy and s2 OH. I was wondering if it would be on dps wise to switch to fist spec and get those vanirs. Or go Fist/sword. Guild is currently doing BT and Archi but havent gotten to Illidan yet. I have enough badges for them, Or should I just spend those badges on the other items.. Just looking for some feedback . Thankyou all.

 

Tipi

Did you try using the spreadsheet?

 

Azuj

Please read through the first posts on this thread, the Roguecraft 101 thread, and then the last 5 pages of each thread. The answers to all your wildest ideas and questions will magically appear in about 20 minutes max. Either you were somehow reading the wrong thread or through a spat of bad luck completely missed the conversations of the last 3 weeks that mention these new fists every 5 posts or so.


If you're still in doubt, then use a spreadsheet and input the items yourself to see how they rate vs your current gear.

PS. The [Shard of Contempt] is also discussed in the same page range.

 

Carnivori

It has been said somewhere here before that haste will always be worth the same. Altho, if I input for example Carapace of Sun and Shadow in the sheet which has 38 haste rating, it lowers the value of Blade of Life's Inevitability which also has haste on it(just a bit tho). Why is that?

I also tried to input other haste containing items all of them have the same effect. Do I have some settings f'd up or does haste actually get weaker at some point? Sorry if this has been discussed alrdy, didn't find anything tho...

 

• Aldriana

Well, when you're changing out pieces of gear, a lot of stats tend to change at once and it's not always clear what causes what. So that in particular doesn't really worry me. But in terms of the general question:

Measured in DPS, haste has no diminishing returns. Measures in EP, it does. Each point of haste provides (basically) the exact same DPS benefit as the one before (modulo minor details of poison stacking and the like)... but it *increases* the value of each point of AP, so the number of points of AP needed to equal one point of haste goes down slightly.

 

drumbum

It's not that haste gets weaker, but instead your OTHER stats get stronger while haste remains the same. Since stats are usually compared against attack power when using EP systems, that means that since attack power's value increases when you obtain more haste, the EP value of haste decreases.

However, a lower EP value does not actually indicate a lower DPS gain.

 

Carnivori

Alrighty, thank you for the quick answers. And Ald awesome job on the sheet, couldn't live w/o it

 

frozenkex

any thoughts on this [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] , scryer version (arcane proc) yet?

 

lolz

Tested it a bit, seems to have a ~45 second internal cooldown and indeed looks like it uses melee crit chance. That should put it below Choker of Vile Intent, right?

Test log: Laelyn - WWS

 

◊ Shaker

An analysis I did of it on a different forum:

Just running the numbers for rogues....

That's comparing Aldor vs Scryer versions - obviously as gear improves (specifically more haste is tossed on), the Aldor version will scale better than the Scryer version, but at the early T6 level, they're relatively similar (AND both of them beat out Choker of Vile Intent, if very slightly), and by the late T6 level you should have access to better. Since it's probably targetted at "people who got unlucky with necklace drops" and "casuals", I think it was pretty well done.

So to answer the question, it's slightly better (at early T6 levels, I'm showing ~5 EP higher) than Choker of Vile Intent. The neck off Supremus toasts it however.

I added it to the sheet as a 18 agi, 19 sta, 104 atk neck, for what it's worth.

Consistency. It's only a virtue if you're not a screwup.

 

Pelinal

Hi guys!
I need your help:
Which is better? Brooch of Deftness or Saberclaw Talisman?


Don't flame me for being only at T4 Level, YOU have been at this point, too

Sorry for my bad English, I'm from Germany as you can see on my Server

 

◊ Vulajin

If you have the badges for [Brooch of Deftness], you should skip it and get [Choker of Vile Intent] instead. The Choker is better than both of the items you listed.

 

Pelinal

I've got another question!
What would you do if you can't go into instances very often, but need a better items than Sure-Step Boots and Spymistress' Wristguards?

 

• koaschten

I'd check the Spreadsheet and notice that there are rewards from ogri'la and crafted Boe's in there.
[Fel Leather Boots] and [Shard-bound Bracers]

 

saedo

Do more instances. There isn't a lot of gear you can get without requiring you to step foot into instances. Maybe a few crafted here and there if you buy AH patterns. Or maybe pvp some, I think S3 are better than what you got despite being pvp items.

 

◊ Kytrarewn

Do instances more often, hire IGE to do instances for you, or focus your instancing on places that actually drop upgrades?

In the case of the boots, for example, the crafted Fel Leather Boots are a very nice upgrade over the sure-step.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

 

Pelinal

Thank you guys, you're a great community!

 

Maconi

I've read the thread, and used the spreadsheet, and am a bit confused.

My rogue is (sadly) currently using S1 swords, Human Sword Spec. One would assume it would be best to get the new badge fist and go Sword/Fist spec?

But according to this spreadsheet, I get roughly 15 more DPS by going full Fist spec with both new badge fists.

Is this a miscalculation? Or does the "always go Fist/Sword" rule just not apply because of the huge difference between the S1 swords and the fists?

 

• Aldriana

The OH Sword rule does have a somewhat implicit assumption that your dealing with weapons of roughly equal quality; having a sword in OH certainly does add a significant amount of DPS... but then, having a higher DPS weapon clearly adds DPS too. I don't think anyone's going to argue that the new MH fist isn't better than, like, Iblis.

That said: I'm a *bit* surprised that Arena 1 OH Sword isn't good enough to pull ahead - I'd've guessed that it would take a somewhat larger quality difference. Then again, I trust the spreadsheet, so if that's what it's saying, I guess it might be worth doing.

 

drumbum

I'm not surprised. Using the default gear set and only changing weapons and spec, even [Vengeful Gladiator's Quickblade] only comes about 3 DPS above [Vanir's Left Fist of Savagery] when using [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality] in the mainhand (and adjusting the spec accordingly). The Vanir's offhand has much better stats than the Gladiator weapons.

 

Maconi

Don't take my word for it, plug in the talents/weapons into the spreadsheet and make sure I'm doing it right. If Fist/Sword (Badge Fist/S1 Sword) is better than I'd prefer it, as I'd get to save my badges for the other gear.

Thanks to the post above me for also doing a comparison between them, looks like I have more badges to spend after all.

Many Thanks.