• Aldriana

They're on the list of things to be added. The difficulty is that, as unique gems, they can't be included in the normal gem lists - it is unhelpful if the spreadsheet recommends socketing everything with a gem that you can only have one of. As such, we would like to leave them as an option for socketing pieces of gear, but we need to adjust the gem model before such a thing is possible.

Similarly, the epic gems from BT will need to be added at some point, but, again, we need to work on how to do so intelligently.

 

Darlal

@ Frost

Attack cycles are actually one of the most important parts of playing a rogue. While they seem simple at first, getting one to actually run smoothly in an encounter is pretty tough and can require a lot of concentration and last second decisions.

Attack cycles look like: ax/by/cz where x,y,z are finishing moves and a,b,c are numbers. This is because the combo point building moves really don't change within a build. With the exception of using shiv (typically a no-no in raids) you'll be using either sinister strike, backstab, or mutilate to build combo points. What you do with them matters.

Slice and dice is your biggest dps finishing move as it increases your white attack speed by 30% (and combo point generation if you're combat specced). Common cycles will look like:
3s/5s/5r. What this says is you should be able to throw a 3 points slice and dice, then a 5 point slice and dice, followed by a 5 point rupture and still have time to get 3 combo points back for another 3 point slice and dice. This cycle keeps slice and dice up at all times and uses rupture. Because of the slow combo point generation of daggers, this is a common cycle for combat daggers.

If you look at the opposite end of the combo point spectrum you'll see mutilate, which generates enough points for cycles like 4+s/4+r/4+x which means you use 4 or more points (depending on seal of fate crits) for a slice and dice and then you should have enough time for 2 more finishers (both with 4+ points) before you need to renew slice and dice.

With the 2-piece set bonus on rogue's tier 4 gear a wrench was thrown in the cycle gears, with 3 extra seconds on a slice and dice, new cycles were possible. Right now you'll see cycles like 1s/5r for swords, saying that you should be able to generate 6 combo points within 1 talented slice and dice with 2 pieces of tier 4 (this is theoretically possible without the 2 piece bonus with good combat potency procs, but the bonus helps).

I hope that wall of text cleared things up.

 

ysf

AFAIK this one isn't unique anymore since 2.1, others might have changed too.

 

• Aldriana

I have both a Bold Ornate Ruby (PvP gem) and a Glinting Fire Opal (Heroic Gem) in my gear. Both are Unique-Equipped.

 

ysf

Hmm, wowhead shows a changed Tooltip for the Shifting Tanzanite

 

nubb3y

so i played around with it a bit, and the highest dps i was able to come up with was 2100ish.
based on that, i have a few questions:

at 2100 dps, would it be possible to effectively manage your threat? (my main isnt a rogue, sorry if this is a dumb question)

also, does the spreadsheet factor in racial abilities like the attack power bonus for orcs, etc?

thanks for helping my curiosity

 

Katherine

At the beginning of a fight definitly not, spamming Feint is neither powerful enough, nor does it help your dps. But a decent time into a fight you can Vanish to reset your Aggro and go "All Out". Usually that will be a big enough buffer for you to not reach the Tanks Aggro until either your Vanish is up again or the boss is dead. This holds true for DPS Values around 1200-1400 though. I yet have to find the optimal environment (Boss, party makeup, GEAR etc) though and consider the DPS of 2100 highly theoritcally.


Dont think so. Switching races between Undead (fear break racial) and Troll (melee haste racial) did show only minor dps changes. I dare saying that can be accounted to the different base stats.

 

Rinced

Bold Ornate Ruby not Bold Living Ruby - my mistake and yes their are unique - didn't even thought about that would cause a problem.

Couldnt you just make a new page containing boolean fields showing wether the gem is equipped or not ? Or is the tooltip the main problem ?

 

• Aldriana

So, the problem in a nutshell:

Right now there is only one list of gems; both gem selections and gem recommendations are drawn from that list.

In order to handle unique gems, you would need to have two lists of gems: a list of which gems can be selected by the user while inputting their gear, and a list of which gems can be used by the spreadsheet while making socketing recommendations.

This isn't necessarily a hugely hard change to make, but it will take some time, and we've been working on other things. I think it's getting towards the top of the stack, though.

 

Frost

So Rupture does more damage than Evisc now?

 

Anddacin

Rupture always has.

 

Tenge

Using the older "Rogue DPS" spreadsheet, the Drape of the DR comes out ahead of everything by a good margin until you can kill Kael'Thas. Since Aran has been stingy, I've been using the Cloak of the Craft (world drop BoE, 13 hit rating) for a long time. The Crystalweave is a slight bit better than this, and the Vengeance Wrap with a Glinting Noble Topaz socketed is slightly better still. The Drape still beats all of these hands-down in the cases I've done with both dagger and sword setups.

 

Triton

I think that this is mostly because the Drape of the DR is one of the few epic cloaks with +hit on it. If you're already reaching the hit cap via your other slots, the Drape's relative advantage over other cloaks is diminished or eliminated altogether. (Of course, having the Drape would allow you to reslot a few gem sockets to replace +hit with Agi or AP, but you know what I mean.)

The Shade hasn't been kind in dropping the cloak for me in 15 or more kills so far, but I'm only one Romulo's Poison Vial away from reaching the hit cap without it so I may just have to buy the Blood Knight War Cloak or something if we stop running Kara before the Drape drops for me.

 

Cili

Small bug with Belt of deep shadow. It does not seem to recognize getting the socket bonus with 2x shifting nightseye in there

Wierd it only seems to do this with the belt putting the same gem in netherblade facemask does not seem to cause the bug

 

Sokkou

Back to the top? So what's in the works for new version.

 

• Aldriana

I'll probably do a release with the new arena items + latest Black Temple/Hyjal drops + new Sword Spec at some point - 0.6.3, if you will. In terms of 0.7... we've talked a little bit about potential features, but haven't really gone very far with it. Is there anything in particular that people would like to see?

 

Katherine

Aldriana, a definitly "want to see feature" is epic gems and change of the format how the gems are shown in the dropdown. I'd rather have a "Glinting Noble Topaz (4agi 4hit)" than "interesting gem name i dont know the stats off that might be an alternativ because i got too much hit".

 

Elhana

just 1 more column - something like "NotUnique" or "CanBeRecommended"
then multiply this and item value, making it 0 for unique gems (this might need 2nd column)

 

misc100

I have been using the spreadsheet for a while and found it helpful. Now that arena 2 gear is coming I wanted to find out if to get the shiv or OH mace to supplement my Dragonmaw. I tried the spreadsheet and found that the mace gave me around +5dps and the shiv almost +20dps. As a second opinion is always nice I went to Foreshadows dps calulator (http://www.pvp.net.tf/) and checked there. The result was that the two weapons were basically equal in damage output (OH mace was a fraction better).

So which one is more correct and why is the other incorrect? Its a bit disturbing to find such a difference between two dps calculators and I do not know which weapon to choose now...

 

Rosvall

With BoS and rogue inherth threat reduction we have a 44% reduction of threat. A good tank can be at 1000+ tps. So at 1000 tps you can have 1715 dps. At 1100 tps you can have 1965 dps.

Also you can have Warrior shout before boss, swap him for a ench shammy who swaps between WF and agi on a 10sec basis (or two shammy's). A hunter with tsa a feral druid

 

Tosa

Swapping totems like that is a waste. And I'm pretty sure you lose the shout if the warrior leaves your group.

 

Xizenta

Something to be done with the hit cap I would very much look forward to... I think when the inputted gear is above the cap one hit should be worth one agility since they are interchangable by gems and agi is the next thing you would substitute in with most builds.

 

Katherine

Another thing that might be interesting for 2.1.2 is the now again glancing sword-spec. This will definitly bring the sword-combat dps down and in-line again with dagger-combat.

 

rj

From my testing on PTR 2.1.2 the new sword spec works as follows:

It will proc poisons, enchants, & itself. It does not reset the main hand swing timer any longer. It always uses main hand damage range regardless of which hand procs the sword spec. It does NOT proc combat potency anymore even if your offhand procs the sword spec. It should proc windfury based on the fact it will proc poisons, enchants and itself but I haven't been able to test it. It really is an additional white main hand hit and will do everything a white main hand seems to do normally (proc wise).

Sword spec will still be a very good pve dps spec.

 

• Aldriana

I will be including the sword spec changes, but the difference is not large; Glancing blows are only about a 6% damage loss at this point, and sword spec makes up about 7% of total rogue dps at the moment; hence, the glancing change is going to reduce combat sword dps by roughly half a percent. On the scale of the difference between swords and daggers, that's nothing.