Rogue Gear Spreadsheet - Page 113

Koosai · 12/22/07, 5:49 PM

Minor request, I was looking at the Lower City Exalted ring, Shapeshifter's Signet, and while the change to expertise didn't make it great it will now be one of the best pre-raid rings out there. For me it rated ~12 AP lower than Garona's. I know if it had been available while I was farming kara for rings I would have farmed the rep for it. I would love to see it in a future release of the sheet.

Jakani · 12/22/07, 8:55 PM

For any of you who are interested, I added a quick and dirty EP table to the sheet, didn't take more than a couple minutes.

All I did was reference the cells on the DamageCalcs sheet where the information already is. I just put it on the SetBonusValues sheet since that was an easy place to do it. It could just as easily be placed under the talents section on the main page.

I've uploaded it here: RogueGear09_EP

Koosai · 12/22/07, 9:38 PM

That table is pretty nifty, you missed expertise though.

Jakani · 12/22/07, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Koosai

That table is pretty nifty, you missed expertise though.

Indeed I did. Fixed and link updated.

Macblade · 12/24/07, 5:47 PM

I guess I haven't been doing enough reading because I seem to have missed some of the explanations for assumptions that people are making. So I just have a couple of clarification questions.

First, regarding weapon enchants people are debating mongoose/mongoose VS. executioner/mongoose right? Why not executioner/executioner?

Second, and perhaps related to the above, why is there an armor penetration cap and what is the cap determined by? Is it just artificial, because it certainly doesn't seem to be: "you've removed all of the boss's armor" and thus are capped. That is, no one is talking about armor reduction anywhere near 6200 or 7700, unless I've been adding things up in my head, incorrectly.

• Aldriana · 12/24/07, 6:09 PM

Regarding point 1: If your OH Mongoose procs while your MH Mongoose is up, you wind up with 2 stacks of Mongoose; that is, you gain the benefit from both hands at once - we refer to this as Mongoose "stacking" with itself. Executioner does not "stack" with itself; it overlaps itself. If Executioner procs on your OH while your MH Executioner is up, the OH proc replaces the MH proc, so you wind up with only one proc active. This significantly reduces the value of the 2nd Executioner enchant, such that once you have Exec on one hand, it is clearly better to use Mongoose on the other; and it's pretty easy to show that if Executioner is worth using at all, you should have it on your MH. Hence, the only sensible options are Mongoose/Mongoose and Mongoose/Executioner.

Regarding point 2: Remember that boss debuffs also apply. So, if you have, for instance, 5xSunder (2600), Faerie Fire (610), and Curse of Recklessness (800) up on the boss, and both WSC (1000) and Executioner (840) Proc, you now have a total of 5850 armor pen on the boss; hence, if you have 350 passive armor pen, you have capped out by reducing the mob's armor to zero. This is generally not a concern against 7700 bosses, but against 6200 bosses it is pretty straightforward to get into these situations if your guild uses all available armor debuffs.

Extravagance · 12/25/07, 5:58 AM

Was wondering if there is some explanation about the Brooch of Deftness vs. other necks. The spreadsheet doesnt rate it over the Choker of Vile Intent. Did I missed something as I thought expertise was pretty neat nowadays :-) This threads are getting to big for casuals trying to look up a single thing once in a while ;-)

hannigaholic · 12/25/07, 7:55 AM

Originally Posted by Extravagance

Was wondering if there is some explanation about the Brooch of Deftness vs. other necks. The spreadsheet doesnt rate it over the Choker of Vile Intent. Did I missed something as I thought expertise was pretty neat nowadays :-) This threads are getting to big for casuals trying to look up a single thing once in a while ;-)

Prett easy explanation - the Choker (and the Worgen Claw Necklace) simply have better stat allocation. The broach uses half of its stats on stamina

ductbutter · 12/25/07, 3:06 PM

One thing to always keep in mind is that when any item, such as the Brooch, is introduced to the game, it does not automatically mean that it will be of a certain value/quailty based on the other items that are introduced at the same time. Blizz does a fairly decent job at trying to keep itemization on a smooth progression for the players, but sometimes they also have other goals in mind. I would guess that the Brooch is meant more for non-raiders who don't have acess to much better equipment for this slot, but are wanting more stam. But if you have any doubts and as the residents here have said, always check the spreadsheet. I'd trust it more than any perceived value based on cost or boss drop. That's one of the reasons it was developed. Math doesn't lie.

Mideci · 12/25/07, 5:32 PM

The Brooch in particular seems like an odd tanking item in that it will help you hit things a lot -- which can be an issue for tanks -- but at the expense of any block / dodge / defense. I contemplate getting one for PVP or 5 mans where I have mediocre tanks or healers and need to dumb down my gear (I also pick up stamina while reducing EAP when doing this).

Feist-Mok · 12/25/07, 9:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mideci

The Brooch in particular seems like an odd tanking item in that it will help you hit things a lot -- which can be an issue for tanks -- but at the expense of any block / dodge / defense.

It's a piece of blizzards attempt at giving raid geared tanks who are too mitigation heavy to generate any rage/threat in a 5 man an alternate gear set that isn't just using old blues and/or DPS gear. So it's heavy on Stam and expertise for the parry avoid. It's not a rogue item, and really, it wasn't meant to be. It's not a bad item for rogues... it's just not as good as another item thats availiable from the same vendor for the same price and is therefore pointless unless you are really hurting for stamina.

evl · 12/30/07, 3:56 AM

I don't know if this has been answered yet but I couldn't find it anywhere in the thread. Since 0.9+ I've been some wierd +hit behavior; everytime I exceed 345 hit my optimal hit drops down to 290 and all the slot recommendations are now +10 agi gems. However, with 345 hit or lower my optimal hit rises to a wooping 380 and all the slot recommendations are now +10 hit instead.

Am I doing something wrong here? I'm using Excel 2003, spreadsheet ver 0.9.1

• Aldriana · 12/30/07, 4:06 AM

I'd have to see your gear/spec to be absolutely certain, but my theory would be that you're right near the threshhold where agi passes hit in terms of value; hence, with lower hit setups, hit is better and it recommends hit for everything; with higher hit values, agi takes over, and it recommends agi for everything. The sheet has always done such things, it's just that the location of the breakpoints shifted a bit with all the 2.3 changes.

evl · 12/30/07, 7:58 AM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

I'd have to see your gear/spec to be absolutely certain, but my theory would be that you're right near the threshhold where agi passes hit in terms of value; hence, with lower hit setups, hit is better and it recommends hit for everything; with higher hit values, agi takes over, and it recommends agi for everything. The sheet has always done such things, it's just that the location of the breakpoints shifted a bit with all the 2.3 changes.

But that would mean the gem recommendations will never be accurate as soon as you close in on the threshold? I've attached my filled out spreadsheet here

Incision · 12/30/07, 1:49 PM

So, I've been using this chart, and noticed that when you have both the Warglaives, it shows as Executioner being more desirable on the MH and Mongoose on the OH, any reasoning behind this? What made it so interesting to me is that when I put it on MY MH, it goes down in DPS (Talon of Azshara MH, Merc. Glad. OH).