Rogue Gear Spreadsheet - Page 12

Skar · 06/03/07, 9:16 PM

Same goes for "shard-bound bracers".

• Aldriana · 06/03/07, 9:38 PM

See post 139. Selecting a gem for the socket fixes this.

Gogge · 06/03/07, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

Yes; the sheet currently assumes that sword spec can proc all the other proc effects you may have, which may or may not be accurate, and whether it's true or not would create a fairly large disparity in dps; rogue DPS is heavily influenced due to the large number of powerful procs available right now (Dragonspine, Mongoose, Poisons, etc.)

Single sword MH with fiery enchant, no specials/skills or haste (text log):

6/4 01:40:09.296 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 405.
6/4 01:40:09.640 Your Fiery Weapon hits Servant of Allistarj for 40 Fire damage.
6/4 01:40:12.015 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 358.
6/4 01:40:12.187 Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Allistarj for 867.
6/4 01:40:12.187 Your Fiery Weapon hits Servant of Allistarj for 41 Fire damage.
6/4 01:40:12.203 Your Fiery Weapon hits Servant of Allistarj for 41 Fire damage.
6/4 01:40:14.468 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 367.

Seems like it procs enchants, so I put on wound poison..

6/4 01:43:40.312 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 436.
6/4 01:43:43.140 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 412.
6/4 01:43:43.343 Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Allistarj for 751.
6/4 01:43:43.359 Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 69 Nature damage.
6/4 01:43:43.359 Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 69 Nature damage.
6/4 01:43:43.734 Servant of Allistarj is afflicted by Wound Poison.
6/4 01:43:45.546 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 354.

Seems like MH sword spec procs can proc enchants and poisons (given WF is a temporary weapon enchant too it should proc, anyone feel like testing with a shaman?). Doing a similar test with sword OH and fist/dagger MH showed no double OH enchant/poison procs (might need better MH enchant proc testing, the dagger testing showed closest MH enchant procs delay at 0.844 after a parry but nothing close to a sword spec proc), ~5k swings with fist MH, ~10k with dagger. In those tests I got several double +15 energy procs all preceded by a sword spec proc so it's likely that combat potency procs from OH sword spec procs (zipped logs).

We know that it procs Warp-Spring Coil and poisons/enchants so guessing it procs on hit trinkets like Dragonspine/Unraveler, although I have no good idea how to test it. Some light testing (~1000 swings) with the Heroism card and the two piece T3 set bonus gave no double procs,

• Aldriana · 06/03/07, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gogge

Single sword MH with fiery enchant, no specials/skills or haste (text log):

6/4 01:40:09.296 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 405.
6/4 01:40:09.640 Your Fiery Weapon hits Servant of Allistarj for 40 Fire damage.
6/4 01:40:12.015 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 358.
6/4 01:40:12.187 Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Allistarj for 867.
6/4 01:40:12.187 Your Fiery Weapon hits Servant of Allistarj for 41 Fire damage.
6/4 01:40:12.203 Your Fiery Weapon hits Servant of Allistarj for 41 Fire damage.
6/4 01:40:14.468 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 367.

Seems like it procs enchants, so I put on wound poison..

6/4 01:43:40.312 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 436.
6/4 01:43:43.140 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 412.
6/4 01:43:43.343 Your Sword Specialization crits Servant of Allistarj for 751.
6/4 01:43:43.359 Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 69 Nature damage.
6/4 01:43:43.359 Your Wound Poison hits Servant of Allistarj for 69 Nature damage.
6/4 01:43:43.734 Servant of Allistarj is afflicted by Wound Poison.
6/4 01:43:45.546 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 354.

Seems like MH sword spec procs can proc enchants and poisons (given WF is a temporary weapon enchant too it should proc, anyone feel like testing with a shaman?). Doing a similar test with sword OH and fist/dagger MH showed no double OH enchant/poison procs (might need better MH enchant proc testing, the dagger testing showed closest MH enchant procs delay at 0.844 after a parry but nothing close to a sword spec proc), ~5k swings with fist MH, ~10k with dagger. In those tests I got several double +15 energy procs all preceded by a sword spec proc so it's likely that combat potency procs from OH sword spec procs (zipped logs).

We know that it procs Warp-Spring Coil and poisons/enchants so guessing it procs on hit trinkets like Dragonspine/Unraveler, although I have no good idea how to test it. Some light testing (~1000 swings) with the Heroism card and the two piece T3 set bonus gave no double procs,

Interesting - and good to know. The primary reason why there's doubt here is that some people on the Rogue DPS spreadsheet thread did a test where they stood in such a way that autoattack was off and spammed shiv, and observed no MH poison application, no double OH poison application, and no Combat Potency Procs in like 1000+ shivs - which made it seem like there are some things, at least, that can't proc.

enno · 06/04/07, 7:28 AM

Current Hit 285,00
Optimal Hit 287,00

Can anybody explain why my optimal hit is 264? What does this mean?
I can understand why at a certain level for example AP would be better then hit.. but just saying get your hit till here and no higher doesn't make sence to me so if someone can explain?

Darlal · 06/04/07, 9:09 AM

What the sheet is saying, is that in your optimal gear, your hit will be 264. The issue with this, of course, is that the relative values of hit and ap are based on your current gear. This means that it is possible that if you switched to your "optimal" gear hit would become more highly valued. The reason for the strangeness is that excel doesn't like cyclic arguments. It is possible to add iterations, but it's neither stable in open office nor particularly good for this kind of thing.

Melnor · 06/04/07, 10:00 AM

Downloaded the version linked on the first page and entered in all of my current gear. (armory) I got down to the mainhand weapon cell and chose Shanker and every cell said #DIV/0

Darlal · 06/04/07, 11:50 AM

I see the error. Here's the fix for you: go to the "Weapons" sheet and fill cell C17's formula with =IF(MHEQ=A17,1,0). This will be fixed in the soon-to-come version 6!

• Aldriana · 06/04/07, 4:42 PM

Thanks to some quick work by Darlal, version 0.6 is ready.

Excel Version: http://www.savefile.com/files/780793
OpenOffice Version: http://www.savefile.com/files/780794

The major change in this release is the advent of zone filters - so you can pick which zones you want to see loot from.

Additionally, contains fixes for various bugs posted over the last couple of days, as well as more Black Temple and Hyjal loot. Also added a few more gems to the sheet.

Shaker · 06/04/07, 7:10 PM

Wow, when I saw you guys' idea of enabling certain zones, etc, I thought "That's a great idea" ... seeing it in practice really shows the value of this sheet. This is really excellently done, and totally replaces the other spreadsheet for me (.. it also replaces my own roguecalc project which I've spent a lot of hours on, something I wouldn't drop lightly). Just tossing more praise out there because at this point you guys aren't doing it for you anymore. Really great job.

HawkEyeTS · 06/04/07, 9:24 PM

I've been following this spreadsheet since I stumbled onto these forums, and I'd like to say both thank you and that I'm extremely impressed with all the work that's gone into this. I'll definitely be recommending it to the fellow rogues in my guild.

I did notice what I thought might be a bug though. The recommended upgrades section for trinkets does not seem to be following the zone selections boses. No matter which are turned on or off, the Black Temple and SSC trinkets still shown as recommended upgrades under Dragonspine Trophy. Again, thanks for all the hard work, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with next.

Darlal · 06/05/07, 12:26 AM

Good catch on the trinkets. I'll fix that quickly. Swords may have the same issue actually.

Xizenta · 06/05/07, 6:34 AM

There's some sort of bug with gear values.

Here's what's happening.
I have a belt of deep shadow... select it as equipped and the vashj belt is noted a downgrade.
Select the vashj belt and the belt of deep shadow is now noted as a downgrade.

I figure what happens is the stats on the belts synergize in a way that the next stat sheet doesnt capture it. IE: 25 weapon skill on vashj belt is not as valuable as what belt of deep shadow has to offer instead but becomes more valuable as the other stats from vashj belt are considered.

Guess it's not really a bug, but - Intended? Known?
Simple little thing but when the sheet shows something as a downgrade it can make a big deal?

Fielding · 06/05/07, 7:17 AM

Using the OpenOffice version of the spreadsheet and my current gear setup, I don't have this problem. I weight my gear Offensively and I have the Belt of Deep Shadow at +5.69.

This actually brings me to question this. Even with having weapon skill and it's benefits so up in the air would you rank the Belt of Deep Shadow over the Vashj belt? Obviously at a point where the Belt of Deep Shadow puts you over the hit cap and some of it's +hit goes to waste the Vashj belt is superior, but even with that said, some other items could be switched around.

Do you guys really rank the Belt of Deep Shadow above the Belt of One-Hundred Deaths? When I use Pf's spreadsheet I see the Belt of One Hundred Deaths coming out about 4-5 DPS ahead and that is with the weapon skill post UNchecked.

Here is what I've come up with based on my own numbers. This is using my(DISCLAIMER: The AEP used only applied to my current gear setup) unbuffed AEP listed by pf's spreadsheet. The only AEP ratio I use in this however is .58AP = 1AGI= 1AEP. Stamina is ignored.

Looking at just the Agility and AP on both of the belts:

Agility first:
Vashj: 29agi = 29AEP
Crafted: 32agi = 32AEP

Attack Power:
Vashj: 74AP *.58 = 42.92 AEP + 29AEP(listed above) = 71.92AEP
Crafted: 66AP *.58 = 38.28 AEP + 32AEP(listed above) = 70.28AEP

At this point, for my current gear setup, Vashj is slightly ahead. Obviously this isn't the case for a lot of gear setups and doesn't take in account raid/buff scaling either.

The socket bonuses are the same and I prefer the red and blue versus the 2 blue on the crafted. So again, Vashj is slightly ahead with my current setup.

Now for the +hit versus the +wep skill rating.

+18hit gives roughly +1.141% hit (18/15.77)

So, +1.141% hit on the crafted belt.

-------------------

+25 Weapon skill rating translates in to roughly 6.3414 wep skill.

+6.3414 wep skill with the most recent and basic (still data to be observed for this) understanding of weapon skill gives us something around:
+.63% hit
+.25% crit
-.25% dodge (or is it -.50%?)

-------------------
The +1.70 AEP that the Vashj belt was ahead previously can all be changed with different gear/raid buffs, etc and the socket colors will also change value as new gems come out. Therefore, in my opinion, it comes down to comparing +1.14% hit and +.63% hit, +.25% crit, -.25% dodge(something you can only get from weapon skill and not taken away post hit cap)

What do you guys think? The main thing that makes me want to stick with Vashj is that there are benefits from the +wep skill rating that will not be removed post 308hit (wexp/precision). Honestly, I think I might be a bit biased though, because I'm very hopeful toward weapon skill being worth a flip.

Sorry if my numbers are way off =0

Darlal · 06/05/07, 9:11 AM

Originally Posted by Xizenta

There's some sort of bug with gear values.

Here's what's happening.
I have a belt of deep shadow... select it as equipped and the vashj belt is noted a downgrade.
Select the vashj belt and the belt of deep shadow is now noted as a downgrade.

I figure what happens is the stats on the belts synergize in a way that the next stat sheet doesnt capture it. IE: 25 weapon skill on vashj belt is not as valuable as what belt of deep shadow has to offer instead but becomes more valuable as the other stats from vashj belt are considered.

Guess it's not really a bug, but - Intended? Known?
Simple little thing but when the sheet shows something as a downgrade it can make a big deal?

You've hit the nail on the head. All values are done based on your current stats, so changing your gear will change the values. For items tha are very close in value, the behavior you describe is expected. I know this seems strange, but there really isn't a good way around it in spreadsheet form. To go all the way we'd need to either use macros or just plain use a database (discussed around page 3).