And if they up the procrate on Warp-Spring and Tsunami by 100%, how would they compare (I've fucked around with them a bit on the PTR, since I don't have them on live. They never, ever proc).
Your spreadsheet has the warp-spring at 107 value, barely better than hourglass of the unraveller, and not as good as abacus of violent odds (though haste re-evaluation should change that).
Just so we're clear - you're using 0.6.3, yes? That has a bug that undervalues WSC. The 0.7.x versions have an improved model for WSC, which have it scoring up in the 160-170 range for me, making it a serious competitor for your #2 trinket with DST.
Assuming that DST loses 1/3 of its value (possibly more, given the windfury change, and issues with haste-stacking), it'll be down to 285, which is about double that of even the second place trinket.
Including the whole haste-stacking thing, let's say a generic value of 220 for DST.
Well, on my sheet, DST is currently scoring 550. 40 of this is AP, the other 510 is the proc. Nerfing that 510 by 33% takes it to 340, meaning that the total trinket value would be about 380, aka more than the next two trinkets combined.
Still overpowered? Yeah, I'd say so. The othet trinkets obey a fairly sensible power progression (all scores with the default gear of the sheet):
Preraid trinkets are all of comperable quality, and raid trinkets all cluster in a pretty good range from 150-170. And then you have DST, still scoring 380. Now, 380 is better than 550 to be sure, but it's still in a totally different league of power.
The better solution, in my opinion, would be to give DST a 30 sec internal cooldown, which would drop it from 550 to ~230 - still good, but much closer to the right ballpark, and wouldn't require rendering all the haste items in BT useless.
With the best approximation of my current gear that I can dredge up in 0.7.3 (still have edge of the cosmos MH w/ Fiery, skyfury hawk-bow/sethekk feather darts, Delicate Green Poncho, and Tier 2 Violet Assassin ring with no enchant (your sheet doesn't like non-enchanted rings), this is my list for trinks
Equipped Trinket Rank Offense
Dragonspine Trophy 0 1 527.42
Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality 0 6 122.08
Romulo's Poison Vial 0 5 127.24
Tsunami Talisman 0 2 141.96
Abacus of Violent Odds 1 4 128.96
Bloodlust Brooch 0 7 115
Icon of Unyielding Courage 0 11 86.09
Warp-Spring Coil 0 3 139.03
Hourglass of the Unraveler 1 9 104.74
Kiss of the Spider 0 10 103.14
Drake Fang Talisman 0 8 107.09
So Warpspring is still only moderately better than Abacus, with Ashtongue being horrifically underpowered (Add +hit rating, damn it, since slayers has terrible hit, though I suppose you wouldn't have Ashtongue with 2/5 netherblade still equipped).
I'm also at 280 hit-rating with my bow, of course, so the +hit on warp-spring and tsunami would be somewhat undervalued, but it's still annoying just how close together any level 70 trinket is to another.
Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.
Preraid trinkets are all of comperable quality, and raid trinkets all cluster in a pretty good range from 150-170. And then you have DST, still scoring 380. Now, 380 is better than 550 to be sure, but it's still in a totally different league of power.
The better solution, in my opinion, would be to give DST a 30 sec internal cooldown, which would drop it from 550 to ~230 - still good, but much closer to the right ballpark, and wouldn't require rendering all the haste items in BT useless.
Is the 380 including the issues involving the pre-2.0 fury warrior scaling of haste ratings with one another (abacus, latent haste, SnD, Blade Flurry, etc)? The 40, yeah, sure. But if you reduce the value of DST by 1/3, just from the haste alone, you also have to consider the effect it has on stacking.
So, 340 haste might go to 300 even, leaving it at 340 all-told, which, again, leaves it within range to be rectified by buffs on other items, or mostly rectified.
Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.
Sure, it may drop by more than that. I was just giving a ballpark figure. But even at 340 it's as good as the next two trinkets put together.
Also, I think your assessment of the trinkets is perhaps skewed a bit by your low level of current itemization. It sounds like those people currently wearing mostly SSC+ gear (i.e., those who will reasonably be picking up some of these trinkets) are finding Ashtongue and WSC to be worth relatively more than you are, which I assume has something to do with your lower itemization level. And it feels to me as though the numbers they're getting are fairly reasonable for where those trinkets should be balance-wise.
Sure, it may drop by more than that. I was just giving a ballpark figure. But even at 340 it's as good as the next two trinkets put together.
Also, I think your assessment of the trinkets is perhaps skewed a bit by your low level of current itemization. It sounds like those people currently wearing mostly SSC+ gear (i.e., those who will reasonably be picking up some of these trinkets) are finding Ashtongue and WSC to be worth relatively more than you are, which I assume has something to do with your lower itemization level. And it feels to me as though the numbers they're getting are fairly reasonable for where those trinkets should be balance-wise.
I just can second what Aldriana said. My trinket list somewhat looks like this:
Dragonspine Trophy 1 1 557,5770331
Warp-Spring Coil 0 2 170,1322338
Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality 1 3 166,4488376
Romulo's Poison Vial 0 4 157,3069236
Tsunami Talisman 0 5 155,7729674
Abacus of Violent Odds 0 6 132,0518758
Drake Fang Talisman 0 7 124,8838693
Bloodlust Brooch 0 8 115
Kiss of the Spider 0 9 113,4299204
Icon of Unyielding Courage 0 10 111,0999612
Hourglass of the Unraveler 0 11 110,6157036
Version 0.7.4 now available for public consumption.
Changes:
*Assorted bug fixes from the last few pages.
*Updated header text on front page.
*Added gem description in addition to gem name.
*Added unique and Black Temple gems.
*Added advanced settings pages to allow modification of more paramaters.
*Removed Arena 1 armor pieces.
*Removed Necklace of the Deep, because it was breaking the sheet, would have been painful to fix, and, honestly, given that it's been broken for 3 months and no one complained, it couldn't have been getting much use anyway.
*Included option to compare gear with or without the haste nerf.
Only outstanding bug that I know of is the glove enchant issue; it appears to only occur in the Excel version, and I don't have Excel at home so I can't really diagnose it right now.
I'm aware that this update makes the gem list a bit, um, unwieldly. I'm thinking about solutions to this issue, but for the moment I wanted to get all the gems in.
Shifting shadowsong amethyst shows up as 10ap/5crit as the text for me trying to find if stats are correct or not
That would be a text bug. The stats are entered correctly, I just typed them wrong in the name. I'll fix it in the next revision; in the meantime, just remember that Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst is actually 5agi/7sta.
Oh, right, I forgot to change the sockets that aren't used with the equipped gear. First time you equip something with a socket that isn't currently being used, you'll have to reselect the gem, because the names of the various gems changed.
The only post that had the words "Balanced Nightseye" in it that was in this thread just had someone talking about using it to activate a socket bonus. So, here goes.
My alt recently got the Midnight legs from Quagmirran and I'm trying to figure out how to socket them. The sheet is recommending that I use 1 Shifting Nightseye and 2 Glinting Noble Topazes. This is a result of 12 agility, 12 hit rating, and 6 stamina (counting the hit socket bonus). Two questions regarding this recommendation.
One, why is it suggesting a Shifting Nightseye over a Balanced Nightseye? I was under the impression that 1 agility wasn't quite as good as 2 attack power in terms of DPS. Hence, I would think that the 8 attack power would outweigh the 4 agility.
Two, why isn't it suggesting 3 Rigid Dawnstones? Everywhere else on the sheet a Rigid Dawnstone is the best gem to use. This means than 4 hit rating > 4 agility and that 4 hit rating > 8 attack power. Hence, gaining 12 hit rating would outweigh the 12 agility that the sheet recommends. Is it the stamina causing the sheet to recommend the Nightseyes and Noble Topazes?
For the first question 4 agi is > 8 ap. Agi + stam is the best blue socket dps gem for us.
For the second question do u have only offense turned on? or weighted total? offensive takes no account for stam while weighted does. Option is right under where you change your race
The relative merit of 1 agi vs 2 AP depends largely on your level of buff; with raid buffs, the agi tends to be better; unbuffed the AP tends to be better. Make sure you have the buffs you feel appropriate selected on the "buffs" page - by default they're set to what's typical of 25 man raiding, which may or may not be approrpriate for you.
As for the 2nd question:
With whatever you have selected, it apparently feels you benefit more from the set bonus, and, looking at the comparison, it's a reasonable point to make. Socketing with the recommended colors gives 12 agi 12 hit 6 sta; socketing straight hit gives 24 hit. Hence the sheet is asserting that 12 agi and 6 sta is superior to 12 hit, which is almost certainly true if you have "Weighted Total" selected. If you switch it to "Offense" you'll probably see the recommendation switch to all +8 hit gems.
Basically: the socket bonus on Midnight Legguards is pretty good, and costs you very little DPS to get, so is likely worth going for.
For what it's worth, the suggestion I've heard (forget exactly which thread here had the link) for balancing sword and dagger raid dps seems to be very good as modeled by this sheet. That is, making Opportunity a 3-point talent and making Aggression apply to backstab as well. The changes to the usual 15/41/5 spec would make it 17/41/3 - getting 3/3 Ruthlessness, 5/5 Lethality, and picking up 3/3 Aggression in combat.
I edited the 5s/Xr/3s sheet to apply Aggression to backstab, and the end result was swords being ahead by ~1% on murder-affected mobs and daggers being ahead by ~1% otherwise, given the same gear (t5/t6) and equivalent level weapons.
Interesting from a 'what-if' perspective at least.
0.7.4 Excel Version - When I select Shard-bound bracers, the sheet stops working. Almost all computed values are replaced with N/A. I'm using Excel 2007.
0.7.4 Excel Version - When I select Shard-bound bracers, the sheet stops working. Almost all computed values are replaced with N/A. I'm using Excel 2007.
Put a gem in the socket. And please read the thread before posting bugs that have been previously addressed.
With the best approximation of my current gear that I can dredge up in 0.7.3 (still have edge of the cosmos MH w/ Fiery, skyfury hawk-bow/sethekk feather darts, Delicate Green Poncho, and Tier 2 Violet Assassin ring with no enchant (your sheet doesn't like non-enchanted rings), this is my list for trinks
Equipped Trinket Rank Offense
Dragonspine Trophy 0 1 527.42
Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality 0 6 122.08
Romulo's Poison Vial 0 5 127.24
Tsunami Talisman 0 2 141.96
Abacus of Violent Odds 1 4 128.96
Bloodlust Brooch 0 7 115
Icon of Unyielding Courage 0 11 86.09
Warp-Spring Coil 0 3 139.03
Hourglass of the Unraveler 1 9 104.74
Kiss of the Spider 0 10 103.14
Drake Fang Talisman 0 8 107.09
How can I compile a list like that with the spreadsheet? All I am able to see is one suggested trinket to each slot, when I have filled in my gear in the spreadsheet.
With my current gear setup I have 256 hit rating and with offensive weighting 0.7.4 version says my optimal hit would be 208 despite suggesting using Rigid Dawnstones on just about every gem slot. Previous versions would typically suggest a higher hit rating as expected. I had the previous versions exhibit similar behavior when I changed Bright Living Ruby's AP value to 20 to see if the PvP gem was better than Rigid Dawnstone.
With my current gear setup I have 256 hit rating and with offensive weighting 0.7.4 version says my optimal hit would be 208 despite suggesting using Rigid Dawnstones on just about every gem slot.
With my current gear setup I have 256 hit rating and with offensive weighting 0.7.4 version says my optimal hit would be 208 despite suggesting using Rigid Dawnstones on just about every gem slot. Previous versions would typically suggest a higher hit rating as expected. I had the previous versions exhibit similar behavior when I changed Bright Living Ruby's AP value to 20 to see if the PvP gem was better than Rigid Dawnstone.
Are you suggesting the Optimal hit box is reporting lower than what the sum of your hit when socketed as it reccomends would be? I think I noticed a similiar trend when I first played around with the new version.
Are you suggesting the Optimal hit box is reporting lower than what the sum of your hit when socketed as it reccomends would be? I think I noticed a similiar trend when I first played around with the new version.
Yes, this seems to be the case. If we assume the logic is that described in post #201, my optimal hit should be higher, since the spreadsheet recommends using Rigid Dawnstones on gem slots that don't currently have them.
Oh yeah, there's clearly some sort of bug here. I'll look at it sometime this week.
The cell that calculates Optimum Hit does so by checking the optimal gems for every slot and matching against the words "Rigid Dawnstone" and "Glinting Noble Nopaz", which are no longer the exact names you use for those gems.
08/18/07, 6:18 PM
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