jacklowry

Hi. First off, thanks for all the hard work put into this spreadsheet. It really is an invaluable resource and has upped my game considerably.

This may have already been answered, but I had a question about the respective worth of Boundless Agony vs. the Fang of Vashj. I'm combat daggers (15/41/5) despite the dps-gimp as compared to swords, mainly because I enjoy playing daggers and because there's a glut of sword rogues in my guild. At any rate, I noticed the Boundless Agony is listed as an upgrade to Fang of Vashj on the Roguecraft 101 Spreadsheet, ostensibly based on the info given here.

Now, with the Fang of Vashj in my MH (Searing Sunblade in OH), it has a value of 1197.06 and says the Boundless Agony is a 14.31 UG. However, putting the Boundless Agony in my MH has a value of 1146.30 (i.e., -50)

I realize the changes are somewhat dependent on everything else I'm wearing. Regardless, I guess my question is, would y'all consider the Boundless Agony a worthwhile UG to the Fang of Vashj to spend DKP on, or is it just a sidegrade? I presume some people will answer, "use the spreadsheet, yo", but the spreadsheet seems to tell me it's a downgrade, which is not how it's spelled out on the roguecraft thread.

Thanks in advance and, once again, great job.

 

presagio

I have searched the thread for a version of the sheet with 2.3 patch gear but i could not find it, reading the posts it seem to exist.

Can i have a link to test it ?

 

Katherine

Comparing [Fang of Vashj] and [Boundless Agony] is quite a problem, they have the same base dps, min and max damage. It really boils down what works best with your equipment. If you already have some Armor Pen, Boundless Agony might get on top due to increased gain when stacking Armor Pen. Fang of Vashj looks more like a generally good Dagger, Weapon Expertise, AP, Stamina. And don't forget that you loose the expertise rating when switching the Fang for Boundless Agony, which is one of the top3 stats in 2.3 to have.

Generally i'd say its a sidegrade or even dare saying "pvp gimmick". On a more objective note, plug it in the spreadsheet, if its within 20 EAP of the old, watch the resulting dps closely, if its less than a double digit change, don't bother shelling out major DKP.


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Don't ask questions, its no official version, not supported by Ald and not proof read on the changes, take with major grain of salt.

 

letha

if you already have 5 weapon skill (expertise come 2.3) from another source, boundless has a higher dps value, however if fang of vashj would be your only source for weapon skill it will have higher value since the first five points of weapon skill are the single highest dps boost a melee can itemize against a (73+) mob. have you considered trying mutilate with boundless agony and fang of vashj? i found my raid dps as 41/20/0 mutilate with ashtongue trinket to be noticeably higher than 15/41/5 and it's much more fun to play.

 

Katherine

letha your point on weapon skill is correct so far pre-2.3, as the first 5 points of weapon skill average to about 3% hit against lvl73. Come 2.3 though, Expertise doesn't give a THAT big jump for the first 5 points as it scales linear with its 0.25% / skill.

 

masterring

Just a question for AD exalted trinket for combat/dagger rogue.
With my gear AD trinket doesn't come close to Warp-Spring Col, Madness of Betrayer, Tsunami or Dragonspine. And according to spreadsheets even Kiss of the Spider/Hourglass and many others gives me better dps than AD trinket. Unbuffed stats (257 hit, 35 crit, 1711 AP).
Am I wrong or this trinket completely sucks for BS/combat rogue?

 

hannigaholic

In less than a week this will no longer be true - the first 5 points in Expertise will give no more or less benefit than any other point, assuming current Test Realm mechanics remain unchanged, which is highly likely.

 

Decease

It could be a result of the incredibly slow Combo Point generation of a Combat Dagger build, where Combo Points take roughly 30% longer to generate (before Combat Potency), and as a result you also have to stretch out your cycle.

 

Melnor

Just a note that the spreadsheet linked in the first post does not contain the Exalted Hyjal ring. It only stops at revered, or I could be blind. I would like to see how it compares to the Stormrage ring.

 

Switchblade

I have yet to see the proc rate of the exalted version pop up yet on these forums. Only just recently have people started to get the final upgrade.

http://ctprofiles.net/1031812

 

OnTheHissay

According to this thread: Procs with/without internal cooldowns

It's: "Band of the Eternal Champion - Band of the Eternal Champion - +160 AP for 10s, 1 PPM proc on melee/ranged attack, 60s CD".

 

• Aldriana

Alternately, see post 1131 in this very thread. And if you search the thread a bit more, you can even find a ballpark estimate on how it compares to the other ring options.

 

Tholofonos

I think I found an error in the spreadsheet.

Wastewalker Leggings is correctly listed as having three sockets, but all three are red, where the actual piece has 2 red and 1 blue. Additionally, the Socket Bonus is tagged as Yes, while Wastewalker Leggings's socket bonus is +4 resil - not exactly a socket bonus I'd go for as a PVE Rogue.

 

nelalas

I apologize if this question has already been addressed; I did not find anything during my thread search.

Do you have plans to include resistance gear into the spreadsheet so that we may compare items and numbers for resist-based fights? This is perhaps a moot point as we only have one such fight currently, but it may be something useful to include in the future (Sunwell?, WotLK?).

 

Katherine

You can add gear easily yourself.
1. Unhide the armors sheet
2. Copy the whole row of one item by clicking in front of it (take items from the middle, dont take set-items, will give strange results due to copied set-boni )
3. right click in front of the copied row and insert cells here, you will have cloned that item now
4. rename it and adjust the stats accordingly
5. Profit

 

◊ Shaker

Question for Ald - when you release the next version, will it include support for 11/28/22-ish builds?

 

• Aldriana

Umm... my immediate question would be "to what extent does it not already do so"? Most of the relevant Sub talents are already in and fully supported; the only ones missing are Dirty Deeds and Shadowstep; if the question is "do I plan to add those", the answer is yes. If the question is "will Hemo be updated to reflect it's new damage", the answer is also yes. If the question is "will there be a Hemo debuff damage estimate", the answer is probably not. I can't think of anything else that would need to be changed; if there is something, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

 

◊ Shaker

That's pretty much exactly what I meant - sorry for the confusion. I'm barely good enough to do the cycle computations for cycles that are sustainable, not saavy enough to do DPS comparisons between them, and am currently trying to see what an optimal cycle for those builds would be.

If you have a quick "Change Cell ___ to itself * 1.25" fix for updating the .8 sheet, that'd be helpful... though I suppose since Hemo's wasn't normalized when you implemented it, that would have to be changed as well.

 

• Aldriana

My sense is that it's usually going to recommend 5s4.7r, which you may recognize has the 5s5r5s5r5s4r cycle that sometimes got mentioned for Heme pre-expansion. Basically, run 5s5r, and every 3 or 4 cycles when you notice your SnD uptime is getting tight, drop in a 4 point rupture.

 

◊ Shaker

Well, that'll certainly be easier to manage than my current 4pc T4 "Dear lord my cycles are wack" state. I suppose a checkbox for "I'm a raid leader and I can't micromanage my cycles" isn't coming in .9.. :P

 

• Aldriana

Honestly, with any reasonable SS or Hemo build, you can't go too far wrong by doing 5s5r. If you look at the actual damage difference between that and Xs5r, the real damage difference tends to only be a percent or two, so as a "lazy cycle" it's pretty much universally a good choice. So even with 4/5 T4, you can always fall back on that if events are being too distracting. Most combat builds will run it with slack, as will combat hemo with 2/5 T4, and the rest of Hemo builds will just need to trim a rupture every minute or two.

 

songster

Just as an aside, on our VR gank last night (after our first Vashj kill, woo!) I found myself doing something similar to this with Eviscerates, what with VR being unrupturable. I'd get S'n'D up, then do 5e, then do the biggest S'n'D I could, then 5e again, etc. When my S'n'D got up to 5 points, that gave me enough slack to chain together two 5e in a row.

I guess you'd describe that as ns/5e , with added 5e whenever there was enough slack time. In practice the "cycle" ended up as something like 1s/5e/2s/5e/3s/5e/4s/5e/5s/5e/5e

Was this the optimal strategy, or should I have locked myself into something consistent (say 3s/5e)? It certainly felt like the variable size S'n'D gave me more scope to adjust for procs, and to slot in things like BF and AR as appropriate.

 

Carnivori

Now that 2.3 is live, our hit rating cap is 363 right? Just checking, so i don't change 8 gems for no reason :P

 

Kurani

I'd like to know that too, and I believe, if so, that the 20 Hit Rating food is the best choice for us?

 

◊ Shaker

Yes, hit cap is now 363 - again, nothing particularly special or important about getting to the hit cap.

Is 1 point of agility better than 1 hit rating for you? (the easiest place to see this is the gem recommendations for yellow slots - are they hit rating gems, or hit/agi gems?). If agility is better, use Warp Burgers (20 agi), if not, use 20 hit food.