Busko

Was wondering is the new items from ZA and the new hit cap implemeted in 0.8 ? version ?

 

Furien

Not yet.

 

Dontmindme

They are additive (1+.06+.2+.1). It's not that hard to determine. You hit something with a low-range weapon, like a 2-4 damage sword or a 1-3 range dagger at a set AP. If you are hitting level 1 Young Ragged Wolves where crit kicks do 220, do the math, it's additive. Then again I was the one who came up with a way to determine if Weapon Skill was rounded or floored. Just need to set strict test conditions.

 

• koaschten

re-hosted
Free file hosting by Savefile.com

 

Busko

oh ok Thanx Furien.

 

Cyrithor

I'm not really confidant in it's accuracy but, I've noticed about a 1% dodge rate vs. Boss level mobs for myself with 21 Expertise when looking over the past few weeks WWS reports. (5 from Human Racial, 10 from Talents, 6 from the Vashj belt) Which would put a boss at 6.25% Dodge from just the few boss reports recently. This is close enough to 6.5% that like you said, it looks plausible.

 

Melnor

While raiding last night I glanced down and moused over my Hemo tooltip and it said that hemo was applying 132% weapon damage along with the debuff. I was like, "when did they buff Hemo because I remember it was just a 125% bonus". Then it hit me, ohhh yea, 4pc T6 bonus. So I got curious and decided to check what the effect it had on the other abilites was. Backstab tooltip says 150% weapon damage normally, but with 4pc on, it said 159% weapon damage. Interesting I thought.. SS tooltip normally says 98 damage + weapon damage, but with 4pc on, it said 103-104 bonus damage. So that led me to another question, is the spreadsheet modeling the 4pc bonus in the way that blizzard is modeling it? It looks like blizzard is just adding 6% to whatever the base bonus the ability already has. The way I thought it would work would be that it would add 6% to your RNG roll for damage done, like if you Hemo'd normally for 2000 on a mob, then with the 4pc bonus, you would hit said mob for 2120. But with how Blizzard has modeled it, it seems like Backstab is receiving the most benefit from the set bonus and SS is getting the shaft. I was unable to test what it would have said for mutilate. I find it odd that Blizzard modeled it this way, but that could just be me.

 

• Aldriana

4-piece is currently being modeled as a flat x1.06 modifier after all other effects are calculated, which I believe is consistent with the real behavior.

 

Koosai

I seem to have found a bug in the 0.8 sheet. While I was playing around with a fist/sword spec I noticed that the APEP value listed for the hourglass of the unraveller goes *down* when I switch from 0/5 fist spec to 5/5 fist spec. Unless I'm crazy or mistaken shouldn't 5/5 give more crits which means more procs?

On a side note, I'm looking at Talon of Azshara and Talon of the Phoenix, is it sound logic to get which ever I can get first as they will be roughtly similiar when specced sword/sword or fist/sword?

 

• Aldriana

So, couple of points here:

1) The increase in procs from additional crit is reasonably minimal. With a 45 second cooldown on the effect, the difference between a 25% crit rate and a 30% crit rate is only about 5% uptime, and thus a reasonably small number of AP.

2) Increasing the amount of crit you have will decrease the relative value of additional crit, which will lower the value of the trinket somewhat.

Hence, it's at least plausible to me that such a thing as you describe might happen. However, since it does sound a bit odd, I will look into it over the weekend while I'm working on the sheet.

Pretty much, yeah. Azshara is probably a bit better on the whole, but not enough to worry about; Phoenix is certainly better than any raid drop that you might otherwise be using.

 

royaljester

Is there a way to test that? According to the previous poster, he's noticing the change is being implemented on the tooltip, thus giving question to if it's being added before or after other modifiers. It seems sound logic that "increases dmg of ___ by 6%" would be before other modifiers...but maybe I'm wrong.

 

• Aldriana

If you're multiplying, it doesn't matter what order you do it in. I guess I'm not really seeing the concern:

Backstab: (150% + stuff)* 1.06 = 159% + other stuff, matching the tooltip
SS: damage + 98 * 1.06 = more damage + 103.88, which would be written as 103-104, matching tooltip
Hemo: 125% * 1.06 = 132.5% = 132-133%, again matching tooltip.

So what's the nature of the concern?

 

roq

Since the dodge question is still in the air, if it wouldn't be too much work ald, can you add Dodge to the advance setting tab? That way if the number is found, it will be easier for some of us to change it?

Oh and just to second koaschten, I love my troll racial and when I have tired to time it due to my health, I forgot to use it. So I gave that up.

 

Havenwood

Well, the German 2.3.2 patch notes are out, and it appears that the nerf bat is being swung at Hemo's head:

Translation: Hemo is being nerfed from 125% weapon damage to 110%, and the debuff is being increased.

Question is, how much is the debuff being increased?

 

royaljester

I think the concern came from whether or not the addition of 6% more dmg came to just the SS/BS/Hemo itself, or was multiplied by the total outcome of dmg, which I guess (Haven't had math in a while) doesn't matter if they are all multiplicative.

I guess the faulty logic some of us are using was that if you added 6% dmg to just the 98 dmg, you got 103-104, which would be like adding +7 striking on your weapon, while if you added that 6% later, when the ss/bs/hemo hit for 2500, you'd get 2650, which would seem, on top, as more dmg. Again, we are most likely wrong, I just can't seem to remeber specifics/formulas.

 

• Aldriana

I'm pretty sure the 6% applies to weapon damage as well; it just doesn't show up in the tooltip since the SS tooltip doesn't say "does 100% of weapon damage plus..." it just says "does weapon damage plus" - so there's no way for it to automatically update to "does 106% of weapon damage plus". Again, I'd be shocked if it worked any other way; I think it's just an artifact of how the tooltip displays.

 

Dampfbrumsel

It does indeed work as modelled in the sheet.
Since my gloves provide the identical amount of attack power as my ranged weapon and one of my rings combined, i could easily test it. I bought a 7 dps weapon (with a damage range of less than 10) and started bashing critters. With the 4 piece bonus active, my Sinister Strikes averaged 416 damage while without the bonus, the Sinister Strikes caused 390 damage on average. Since those results are quite unambiguous, I stopped after a total of 9 samples

 

Dontmindme

It should also be noted that all the multipliers also apply to the flat damage from Backstab, although, to date, I have never seen them actually get applied to the tooltip.

 

Antreri

25 expertise (6.25%)... Vashj belt, Gloves of the Searing Grip, human racial and 10 from expertise. I haven't seen a dodge in my WWS parses since the patch.

 

• koaschten

Could you link to them please?

 

Kurani

I thought Human Racial was changed to 1% Crit with Maces/Swords?

 

Ariose

The human racial was 1% crit at some point on the 2.3 PTR, but they finalized on +5 expertise.

 

Antreri

I said that, then the WWS posted today for last nights TK run shows 2 dodges on normal melee attacks (3465 hits). May have jinxed myself. Those however, are the only ones I've seen since the patch. Looking at dodges pre-patch vs now, fair to say I was ~3% dodged with "weapon skill".

Temptress - WWS
Temptress - WWS
Temptress - WWS
Temptress - WWS

 

◊ Vulajin

http://wowwebstats.com/abj45em6wo5ku...2&fiaa=i&fih=1

You were dodged twice attacking one of your mind-controlled warriors. You had no dodges against any boss-level targets in any of those parses.

Keep that data coming in, it's very useful.

 

Tyious1

When is it worth it break the 2 set bonus on T4? I only have T4 head and gloves. Pants I passed on cause skluker imo is better. Guild no longer does Mag. I have T5 gloves and shoulders.... Spreadsheets says its all good.... but wondering on any info anyone can give.