Agreed; this is my recommended approach as well. I believe the crossover point for most rogues is that any fight with more than 2 seconds of movement each minute favors Cat's Swiftness over 12 agi, which includes, um, just about everything in T5 with the possible exception of Void Reaver, plus about half of the fights in T6. So I believe the endgame optimal thing to do is have a set of Nyn'jah Tabi boots socketed for hit with 12 agi to use for sustained fights, and a set of Shadowmaster's Boots socketed more towards agi with Cat's Swiftness to use on movement fights.

One more thing, and I apologize ahead of time if it's been answered already. Berserker's Call is showing up as a greater increase in dps over tsunami talisman, and even madness of the betrayer. I was under the impression that berzerker's call wasn't that great of a trinket, but it's showing it to be almost on par with DST.

That's, um, very unusual. It might be possible with some really wierd set of gear, of course, but for most people Berserker's Call ranks around 5th. If you send me your gear/spec I'll try to diagnose it further.

I can send you the spreadsheet, or it might be easier just to armory me (Tehrock of Emerald Dream)

I have 12 agil on my Nyn'jah boots now, do you think it's worth changing it to Cat's Swiftness? I'm in T5 content and probably won't ever see Shadowmaster's Boots.

Well, let's see. With the gear in your armor and the default suite of raid buffs, I show your trinket upgrades as:
Dragonspine Trophy: 102.4
Madness of the Betrayer: 52.8
Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality: 48.8
Berserker's Call: 31.7
Tsunami Talisman: 20.9

So, in terms of a raid-buffed scenario, I'm not seeing what you're referring to.

If, on the other hand, we look at the totally unbuffed situation, we have:

Dragonspine Trophy: 58.5
Berserker's Call: 49.4
Madness of the Betrayer: 36.6
Ashtongue Talisman: 28.6
Tsunami Talisman: 21.0

So, yes, if we're talking totally unbuffed, Berserker's Call competes with Dragonspine Trophy. This is, for instance, why a lot of people like it as a PvP trinket. But from a raiding persepctive - how often do you raid totally unbuffed? Even putting on an absolutely minimal set of buffs (PW:Fort, GotW, Blessing of Might, 5xSunders, Faerie Fire, IP MH, DP OH - which is fewer buffs than any rogue in a 25-man raid should have), we have:

Dragonspine Trophy: 64.5
Madness of the Betrayer: 32.4
Berserker's Call: 31.7
Ashtongue Talisman of Lethality: 21.5
Tsunami Talisman: 11.5

So, fundamentally: AP is good in low-buff situations, hence if you are unbuffed or only very lightly buffs, Berserker's Call is a reasonably strong trinket. But in most 25-man raids you will have enough buffs that Dragonspine Trophy will be markedly superior, Berserker's Call will rank no higher than 3rd.

I probably would, yeah. I mean, lets look at the fights in T5 where Cat's Swiftness will either a) deal more damage or b) cause you to take less damage than 12 agi:

Hydross
Lurker
possibly Tidewalker (depending on graves)
Karathress
Leotharas
Vashj

Al'ar
possibly Void Reaver (depending on strategy)
Solarian
Kael

You might note that I just listed every single boss in T5. Even removing the debatable ones, it's still 8 out of 10. So yes, as a T5 rogue, I would say Cat's Swiftness is usually superior.

That's a pretty extreme option for a change of 6 agil. If you have the gold for the Cat's enchant in the first place I would just stick with that, unless for some reason you have 60 badges rotting and don't want the extra gold selling them as nethers. But to each his own.

Fundamentally, not everyone needs money very badly these days. I mean, once you buy your epic mount and some 20-slot bags, what else is there to spend money on? Repairs cost some, but as a rogue you can farm enough to cover that in, like, half an hour a night, tops. So I can definitely see rogues that don't feel the need to sell nethers for cash, and given the number of badges you can get from a Karazhan run it's quite easy to get 60 badges for an extra pair of Nynjah Tabis. The principal reason I haven't done so myself is because I don't think I'd be able to get epic gems to put in them. But if you're at T5 level and just gemming with blue gems anyway, I could definitely see doing this.

I guess that it depends on your server and your willingness to farm. Personally, even running Kara twice for a total of 8 hours (or even 6 if you got an all mains run) is more than I'd be willing to put in for 6 extra agil, which works out to 1-2 DPS out of 1300? (I'm at work so I can't check)

If that is the last upgrade that is possibly available and you are a hardcore min/maxer, go for it.

Just to throw something else out there though, depending on whether you have any guilds on your server clearing BT past Mother Sharaz and thus might have some extra Heart of Darkness to sell, the upgrade from a T5 level peice to the Swiftstrike Bracers or Swiftstrike Shoulders is a pretty nice one, even after the haste nerf. So if I was in T5 and wanted to max out my gear, I'd rather put the 8 hours towards farming/doing dailies and/or the 60 badges towards selling nethers and then buy one or both of the swiftstrike items (On my server you can get the HoD from 500g to 1000g each depending on what you work out). But again, everyone has different amounts of gold and likes different aspects of the game more than others, so that's just my prediliction, I really don't get much enjoyment out of Kara anymore, even to the extent that I'd rather just grind primal mana sometimes, so...

One thing to note (which should make your life a little easier, Ald) is that the Unique-Equip gems from Heroic instances will no longer be unique-equip anymore. So pre-T6 rogues, start farming SV for the 5str/4agi purple gem (for your blue slots) and Heroic BM for your 5agi/4hit red/yellow ones!

(This is forthcoming in 2.4)

So in my attempts to change 0.9.3 to accomdate that change, I found a fun bug ...

When 'activating' the gems (specifically Glinting Fire Opal / Shifting Tanzanite) on the sheet, the calc functions (GetMaxRedName) bug out. Looks like it's storing/calculating the range to look over wrong, but I'll admit my excel-fu is kinda weak.

Hello,
i'm a Dagger Rogue and am using Merciless Gladiator's Shiv in offhand.When i replace it with Tracker's Blade my dps raises in the new version but goes down in the 2.3.2.7 version.Which one is correct now?

As you didn't fill out your profile properly it's hard to find you on the armory to figure out the rest of your gear.

As well you shouldn't expect exact the same results from the Gear and the DPS sheet, as they take different approaches on how to model certain mechanics.

whats the armory link good for if it changes few times a week because of pvp items, takes days to update and often crashes your browser.
on top of that it wouldnt make the slightest difference.i use the spreadsheet with the same items, once the trackers blade gives dps and once it becomes less.

Again, the Gear Spreadsheet and DPS Sheet calculate stuff differently. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the 1.4 speed OH is going to be better than a 1.8 (~50 DPS increase on the weapon for the Shiv if you had taken a look at the Roguecraft 101 Thread), though.

Finally (friendly tip), please don't whine. The mods hate it :P

tracker's blade is 1.8 speed now?
i take it the mods like nonsense, though?

Haha, my bad. I just instantly thought Hyjal & the 1.8 speed dagger (Boundless Agony?). Those two are pretty close though.

I tried to make this change myself, but for me cells E79 and F79 are blank. Did you mean D80 and 81?

Yes, sorry. D80 and D81, not E79 and F79. I will edit the original post so as not to confuse people.

Hello everyone, I have been reading the various theorycrafting posts and playing around with the spreadsheet for a while. However, some questions arised. While I do try to follow the dps rotation at my best (that in my case is 3.8s5r) I find my DPS being really really low.
In instance the last gruul I killed saw me sitting around 730-750 dps while the spreadsheet estimates 1003 rough dps. Now I know that i don't blindly have to follow the value the spreadsheet provides, since the various mechanics of the encounters. But isn't the difference between the estimated and the actual dps way off?
My group was composed by me, another rogue 2 hunters (one of them being BM the other one MM) and an enh shaman (he was using grace of air instead of WF due to the hunters), so for what it counts I even had stormstrike up on gruul most of the time that gave me a bit more damage with the poisons.
Speaking with rogues that plays in more advanced progression-wise they told me that for my gear level the DPS is indeed way too low.
The Spreadsheet, tells me that I actually even more hit than required (225 without hot spicy talbuk) and i should downgrade to 204. Now, I must admit that I am puzzled about this, according to recount 8% of my white attacks missed him (with 245 hit). The suggestion the spreadsheet gives me here would be socketing all my slots with delicate living rubys (8 agi) and just a slot with a glinting noble topaz (using the s1 chest), but doing so will make me lose the RED bonus, would the increase of agi would be worth even the loss of the RED bonus?

The recommeded gems don't check your meta gem requirements for you. And are you looking at things using the offensive mode (top left drop down menu)?

An important thing to remember about Gruul is that you're not getting full time on target. You're spending a good 15% of your time out of melee range on account of shatters and dodging caveins; as such, if your sustained DPS prediction from the spreadsheet is 1000, it's not reasonably to expect to do consistently over 850 on Gruul. So your damage is perhaps a bit low, but not totally out of the question.

Regarding the rest: the spreadsheet does not take metagem activation into account when recommending gear. It's just doing piece-by-piece best socketing. So yes, you are going to need to deviate from the socketing recommendations in order to keep your metagem active. All it's really telling you is that, at the moment, it think agi is a better stat for you than hit. Now, the two are pretty close together so it's likely not worth resocketing anything you already have; but you might consider socketing new gear you get with more agi and less hit.