Correct me if I'm wrong, but the gear spreadhseet doesn't factor in Meta requirements?

The DPS you see is indeed quite low. It could be down to inexperience on the fight though. Losing that much DPS while following the correct dps cycles I would pressume you're maybe not CloSing the slams and repositioning?

Some guilds may use different tactics... Some like to send melee behind the rocks to avoid the slam altogether, are you doing this? All sorts of moments where you aren't actually in melee range could acount for the DPS loss. Individually they may not be great losses but combined, it could add up.

-Hive

Edit: By the time i typed all this you got some replies!

Yes, I did use the offensive mode.

Regarding the positioning, obviously I cos out the gronn lord grasp but not always i am able to get back to him right after. Experience-wise, I do lack it as rogue that's another point too. For the dps cycle I usually build my first CP with SS then SnD get to 3 CP refresh SnD and build 5 cp for rupture. But I have to say that for the moment I struggle sometimes to keep this up (it's really about my "luck" with CP procs). So I guess on the next try I will try and lower my rotation to 3s/3r and check if I see any improvements. Also using stuff like trinkets and bf together, and in case AR is up to use trinkets bf and AR at once (not before having checked to have 80 or more energy before i use AR).Thanks very much for all the answers

On fights like Gruul (or Leotheras) , you have to use your combo points a bit differently because of your energy caping during the shatter. For example you should have 1 combo point ( or more depending on your cycle) unspent during the shatter, you spend it while you run back to Gruul so you have SnD up all time while on gruul.

In my opinion, you'll do better to loosen your cycle to 4s/5r or 5s/5r rather than lower it to 3s/3r. The longer cycle will give a more efficient return from Relentless Strikes. Most models show the longer cycle as better DPS, and most posters here find it easier to maintain as well. I, personally, run a 2s/5r cycle, but if I get unlucky with combo points I usually do something like the following to get back on track:

2s, (get unlucky with CP procs), 4r, 2s, 5r
or
2s, (get unlucky with CP procs), 5r, 1s, 4r, 2s, 5r

Cut where you can on Rupture in order to keep SnD up, but in general try to build to higher CP levels before dropping finishers.

All in all, however, Gruul is not a good fight to benchmark your DPS on. There is a lot of movement, as well as a lot of turning and potential parries. (You should always try to stay behind Gruul, but sometimes the tanks have to move him to get out of a cave-in or something similar, and you will be DPSing from the front momentarily. This can have a significant impact on DPS.)

For some reason...no matter what I mess around with...the spreadsheet always ends up saying that my hit rating is +20 of what it actually is...any thoughts?

hit rating food buff

I officially am retarded...thanks

Ald, I have a quick question, how easy it is it to potentially add/investigate a New Cycles into the sheet? Of late i have been wondering if any 2s/Xr Cycles would be any good. But unlike back in the day when Kalman first did that cycle sheet, yours isn't as easy to modify. So, is there an easy way to do this on the sheet, without breaking everything? Or can i assume no 2s/Xr Cycle won't be as good as the ones listed on the sheet?

Adding new cycles is reasonably hard in general, although working off the existing sheets would probably rein in the difficulty somewhat - I honestly haven't given a lot of thought to it. However, in the specific case of XsYr for X or Y constant (i.e. 2sXr, Xs4r) it's actually reasonably managable.

If you just want to play with it a bit, the easiest way is to replace either the 1sXr or 5sXr sheet. Row 84 on either calc sheet specifies the SnD size to use (in fact, the value of row 84 is the *only* difference between the 1sXr and 5sXr sheets). So if you change that row to a 2, that sheet will now display values for 2sXr instead of whichever it did before. You may also then want to change the value of DamageCalcs.G14 (or G15, as appropriate) to get the correct cycle name for the cycle recommendation.

Now, if you wanted to actually add 2sXr to the sheet in a general way, you would want to make a copy of either the 1sXr or 5sXr page, change row 84 to 2, and then wire it up to the DamageCalcs page by adding another row in both the top and bottom blocks and copying in the formulas. This is a little messier, but not totally intractable.

Now, regarding the general question of the merits of a 2sXr cycle: last summer when I was working on this I spent a great deal of time analyzing theoretical cycles and concluded that the optimal XsYr cycle should, in general, fall in one of the 4 families that I have included in the sheet. I'm not going to swear that I didn't make a mistake, and I definitely did make some simplifying assumptions such that even if my logic was sound, the assumptions may skew the result... but, fundamentally, it is my believe that the only circumstance in which 2sXr can be optimal is when X = 5, and the resulting 2s5r cycle coincides with the Xs5r cycle. Unfortunately it's been 7 months since I made that analysis, and I recall it being messy to show, so I can't really show the proof of it, but that is my recollection.

That said: by all means, feel free to go ahead and play around with them a bit and see what you come up with; but fundamentally, I will be surprised if you find that a 2sXr cycle surpasses the existing ones, and even more so if it does so by a nontrivial amount.

Okay, another question, I've check the first page and the latest pages for anything, but I'm still without a clue as to how I would get suggested weapon upgrade (might be called something else ><) box to show daggers instead of swords, I changed my talents from 5/5 sword spec to 5/5 dagger spec, and the only upgrades were swords still.
Actually hang on, it stuck rod of the sun king and dragonstrike as just under warglaive of azzinoth with dagger spec. Weird.
Edit: /sigh, ignore this, changed my MH from blade of infamy to boundless agony and the recomended upgrades were all daggers. And re-edit, didn't see your post before I messed about with the sheet some more and got my answer ><. Thanks anyway though

Equip a dagger in your MH and it will start recommending MH daggers.

If you have a sword, fist, or mace in your MH, it will recommend the highest damage MH swords/fists/maces (which, apparently, means Dragonstrike and Rod of the Sun King if you don't have sword spec). If you have a dagger MH, it will recommend daggers instead.

Well, I confess that I haven't done any profound analysis if the situation, but my suspicion is that what one finds in terms of optimizing ones SR set is that wearing the 5 crafted pieces (cloak, bracers, belt, legs, boots) with DPS enchants on all of those is the way to go, as that brings you to a total of 300 SR (which, with Prayer of Shadow Protection, gets you to the SR cap). Those pieces all give large amounts of SR, and I suspect you find it's more efficient to get the SR that way than by using SR enchants or Void Crystals (efficient in the sense of costing less DPS stats to get). You can then wear regular DPS pieces in all other slots - such as, in the ideal case, 4/5 T6 (all but the legs).

In terms of optimizing without the legs: I'd punch in your regular gear and write down the score for each item you're currently using, and then compare that to the amount of SR you get from that slot, thus allowing you to figure out which slots have the best DPS stats-for-SR tradeoff.

From a guild's logistical standpoint, the legs are a huge waste of hearts, and you also give up a lot of DPS stats from your legs. Gearing a single 25-man raid takes 225 hearts if you use the legs, 150 otherwise.

The best slots to replace for SR, aside from the crafted cloak/bracers/belt/boots, would be rings. Try to find "of Shadow Protection" rings adding up to at least 32 SR, and make sure you wear an old helmet with [Item not found!] on it, plus the +15 SR enchant on your crafted cloak. That'll put you at 295 without having to give up your legs.

Well something you should always be aware of is, you should gem conciously when in t6 content. This means for a rogue, put as much hit on the slots you don't replace with shadow resist gear, make sure your meta gem requirements are met when wearing shadow resist gear. Your fancy meta does nothing for you if you lack a red/blue gem. And you probably will want to wear t6 head over Cursed Vision of Sargeras to make the set bonus.

I've been using 4pc t6+Cursed Vision+Neck/Cloak(with enchant)/Bracer/Belt/Boots and adding 2 Amber Band of Shadow Protections. Comes down to exactly 295 resistance as undead.

While it's true that the legs are the least efficient slot for SR from a hearts perspective, they are only marginally so; belt and boots only give 27 SR per heart, compared to 24 for legs. So while it is generally the case that legs will be the last slot you get epic SR for, I think it is slightly overstating the case to say that they are a "huge waste".

Agreed. This is, for instance, one of the reasons I have by blue gems in shoulders and chest, even though, from a straight optimization standpoint, I would do slightly more damage by having the 2nd blue gem in boots or belt rather than shoulders.

Of course, if you're just doing Mother for the first time, this sort of consideration isn't quite such a big deal, as you clearly don't have T6 shoulders or chest, nor Cursed Vision. But that's definitely the direction you want to be heading.

That is a really good point with the gems. I haven't had to deal with that yet because I'm using the green SR head peice at the moment, but I'm glad I haven't gotten a T6 level Chest or Shoulders (and thus gemmed them) yet.

Well, my point was that from an Heart-to-SR efficiency standpoint, making people cloak + bracers + legs is not significantly worse than making them cloak + bracers + boots + belt. So if you were really short on Hearts and were willing to make everyone get a little extra SR elsewhere, making pants instead of boots + belt is not totally ridiculous.

True enough, though I'd expect that the boots and belt also offer a superior ratio of SR gained to DPS lost than the legs. As well, I'd expect that all the epic crafted SR pieces offer a far superior ratio of SR gained to DPS lost than any green "of Shadow Protection" pieces.

Either way I think this is probably really off-topic. Sorry. :x

So my guild ran a Boomkin for the first time yesterday and I am pretty much trying to figure out what are the best pieces to drop hit on since my base unbuffed is 341. Pretty much rocking best inslot gear sans warglaive oh. My logical guess was to swap WSC for Ashtounge but I am still over cap by a bit for it. Any suggestions?

Hmm, you're logged out in pvp gear on the armory, but the ZA cloak is almost as good as teron's but with the lack of hit.
Best would be to pickup a secondary sets of various items (Shadowmaster's, any t6 piece.) or simply regem. I personally try to not go over 300'ish since at that point agility is quite close in value to hit.

Dropped hit food for agi food already? Easiest (but maybe not feasible) thing to do would be to regem some 10 hits into 5agi/5hit. Perhaps swap out Arcanite Steam Pistol for the Twisted Blades from Gorefiend if you got em, seems like another good choice, since they're pretty close in dps increase, but one sans hit.