I'd like to know this as well, because under the duration of the buff I'd be over 50% crit raid buffed using mace/sword spec.

Considering you may get an extra 5-10 Sinisters strikes with the AToL bonus in a fight, with a 6.7% higher chance to crit on each of them.. you are basically *maybe* getting one extra SS converted from a hit to a crit. The dps difference is largely equaled out by the increased risk of losing energy regen ticks. With such a small sample size per fight, your luck on RNG rolls plays a far greater factor than pooling energy and getting a few extra SS's in under the AToL buff. Over the course of hundreds or thousands of hours of consistant, stationary combat.. you may see a 1-2 dps increase by doing this. Or you may see a dps loss by having your energy cap out at 100 and losing regen.

The AToL model does not currently include any level of energy queuing. I have some ideas on how to do so (basically, keeping track of how much "slack" energy the various cycles have and estimating the number of extra SS you can squeeze in during uptime), but such a thing is beyond the scope of this spreadsheet - I may include such a thing when/if I finish my real-code implementation, but no promises.

However, in terms of the benefit by so doing: it's pretty minimal. I have previously in this thread given a rough estimate of how much damage you gain by so doing, and while it's not totally negligible it doesn't really change the ordering of trinkets or the overall balance very much. I'm sure with a bit of searching you could find the post in question, but my recollection is that the difference is less than 10 AP.

I would think you are more interested in just maximizing AToL's uptime by trying not to overlap procs as much as possible. Besides, it's not like most people don't already spam instants after a finisher as it is and then wait on the specials.

I have a question about cooldown usage to maximise dps. It's not a directly related question about spreadsheet but I hope you dont mind helping me

Depending on the inital threat, I usually pop BF after 10th sec of fight and AR after 30th sec. We have a decent drum rotation in melee group. I also use 1-2 haste pots every boss.

What I wanted to ask is, should I try to overlap haste pot, dst proc, blade flurry, warglaive proc and blood lust or is it better to use them independently.

Thanks for help and for the good work with the spreadsheet

Generally you'll want to try and stack CD's which benefit each other. Haste procs don't benefit each other - however an AP proc goes quite nicely with a haste proc. Don't bother attempting to save CD's and wait for weapon enchant type procs to go - the loss of CD uptime generally is higher than the potential benefit. Of course, if you know the fight is going to take 3:30-4 min.. as long as you use your CD once in the first 2 min and once in the second 2 min I could see trying to time it a bit.

As for when to start your CD's.. 2 things to consider. First, if you know how long the fight will be, make sure you get your first CD usage off so that you'll be able to use that CD as many times as possible over the duration of the fight. Second.. make sure you wait until all appropriate debuffs (generally Sunder Armor) are up on the boss before you burn CD's. The first suggestion generally takes precedence. For instance, my guild is at the point of killing Teron in ~2:10. Its worth it for me to pop a Haste pot, Blood Fury and Blade Flury as we run to the boss (5 seconds BEFORE THE FIGHT STARTS) so that I can get in a full 2nd usage. The first usage of those CD's is generally pretty weak - only 2/3 the duration is actually used and the boss is relatively un-debuffed. However, its more than nothing.. as long as I get that full usage out of the CD's again when the timer comes back up.

If for instance you had a 3min fight, you would want to wait until at least 10-15 seconds (to let Sunder stack) into the fight, and no later than 45 seconds to pop your 2-min, 15-second-duration CD's. Remember, you generally only get 1 AR per fight (baring the odd fight which is longer than 5 min).. use that during some sort of armor pen, AP or crit type proc. If your an Orc, thats a good time to use AR.


As for Haste Rating CD's.. its actually *slightly* to your disadvantage to have them proc at the same time. This is things like DST, Haste pot, Warglaives, etc. % based attack speed modifiers (SnD, Blade Flurry, Bloodlust, etc) can be poped whenever and it doesn't matter one bit. This is due to how weapon speed is calculated with the various effects - non-rating effects all multiply together. The ratings are added together first, then multiplied onto the other attack speed modifiers.

Edit: See my post here for a slight correction and further description regarding haste.

In practice, you'll want to pop AP/Crit/ArmPen type stuff at the same time as your haste pot. Having a DST/Warglaive proc up at the same time is going to be good - despite an overall loss of maybe 0.01 swings from stacking haste rating CD's.

Hopefully that made sense and answered your question..

Has anybody tested the Righteous Weapon Coating Righteous Weapon Coating - Items - World of Warcraft ?

I haven't done any formal testing, but unless the proc rate is absolutely ridiculous (~75% uptime or so) it's not going to be worth replacing either WF or Deadly Poison to use. So if you're short on shamans and are stuck using IP/DP, it might be a slight improvement; but for most rogues, it's unlikely to be very interesting.

I wish blizzard could change windfury mechanics to aura instead of weapon enchantment..

But that would probably be the Easy Way for them to kill Totem Twisting.

Sorry, I haven't read through entire thread, but is there a reason why Blood Frenzy is not included as one of the buffs? We carry an arms warrior with us, so it's a pretty huge buff.

Thanks

I hadn't noticed this anywhere and maybe my search box is messed up, but...

Even with AToL equipped it still shows a 3.5/5 cycle. So the question is, does the spreadsheet take into account that 5/5 keeps the trinket up a lot more often and just doesnt know to tell me to do the 5/5 OR does it already know and just knows that a 3.5/5, even with AToL, is better overall?

5/5 doesn't necessarily mean a higher uptime, because 5/5 is a longer combat cycle. Truth be told that 5/5 and 3/5 would most likely have equal uptimes for AToL. 5/5 is longer which means extra time, or 3/5 which is shorter, but may not always proc the trinket.

Adjusting the cycle for max AToL uptime would be worse than using a cycle for your spec/gear bonuses. For example, 5/5 means you are overlapping SnD for most raid builds. You're wasting combo points(and energy spent for finishers) when it's not needed compared to having more rupture damage due to a higher uptime for rupture.

The best cycle is the one that balances rupture uptime and snd uptime without letting snd fade.

I've come up with an idea for the sheet: Expose Armor support. While it's not particularly hard to manually calculate the boss armor value for Expose Armor, I thought it'd be handy to have EA in the buff section. Of course someone is going to have to apply it, so being able to force-select a 5s5ea cycle would be a nice feature, too!

While its certainly not the "Easiest" thing to do - you can model this yourself with the current sheet. Add in a new buff, simply copy the Sunder Armor line and change it to Imp Expose Armor with an ArmPen of 3075. Select this, deselect Sunder.

Go to the DmgCalcs sheet, check your dmg done with 5s/5r. Go to the 5s/5r sheet, find the line (I don't have the spreadsheet open here at work.. its near-ish the bottom) for Rupture DPS. Subtract that Rupture DPS from the 5s/5r total. That should be your 5s/5ea dmg.

Alternatively, if you wanted to look at DPS and gear values while assuming some other rogue is applying expose armor, you could just reduce the Boss Armor value in the Advanced Settings tab.

Isn't that more of a personal question? I mean.. one belt is available now, the other is not. One belt is higher dps and more dps. One belt costs X amount of gold, one costs some badges. Whats worth more to you?

Silent path is a better belt, but not by a ton. If its worth it to you to buy Deep Shadow in the meantime cause you have the cash, do it. If its not, wait. If you want an upgrade now and can only buy one belt.. get Deep shadow and stick with it. You gave pretty much every pro/con of each belt yourself, weight the options for your own situation and go with it.

Might it be possible in the spreadsheet to have some options to select a preset builds rather than have to tinker with the talents when going from combat fists to combat swords, etc.?

It would certainly be *possible*, but I'd be lying if I said it was anything other than a very low priority for me. So while I won't rule out it happening eventually, don't expect to see it anytime soon.

I guess you're right, the only thing that had me wavering was the additional socket. I've read comments that praise deep shadow for it's two sockets. Does anyone deeper into the content than me find that additional socket a godsend?

The only thing additional sockets really give you is additional flexibility about where to put your two blue gems - since I have mine sitting in BP/Boots (and will move to Shoulder/Boots when I get T6 shoulders), it doesn't really matter. Sockets aren't magical, they're worth some stat value, and except for meta gem activation, are totally not required in any way.

Another beta drop with the updated mace spec in it, as well as assorted other fixes based on feedback.

Note: If you download this sheet, and something isn't working the way you expect, please read the FAQ section in the first post before posting a question about it. Many of the questions that get asked in this thread are already answered therein.

Version 0.9.5 (beta), 3/4/08: Download
*Updated to latest T6 set stats
*Corrected drop location on Tunic of the Dark Hour
*Removed Sunrage Shoulderpads
*Updated Mace spec based on recent findings

I didn't change the glitch discussed in posts 2243 through 2247; as this is sort of a minor cosmetic change but has the potential to break some stuff in fairly significant ways, I'm going to leave it as is. Really, I'm half-inclined to just dump the "optimal to use set bonus" column entirely, as it should be pretty obvious whether or not it's using it given that it *tells* you what the optimal socketing is.