In the interest of putting a stop to the long string of absolutely useless posts that have been made in the past couple pages regarding 2.4 loots and changes, I have added to the first post and am reposting here the link to the beta release of the spreadsheet that has that information in it. It is a beta, and it definitely has bugs, and while you're welcome to post any issues you find I'm not really interested in listening to a lot of complaints about instability or bugginess - I know it's unstable and buggy, that's why it's a beta.
Beta Release, 3/5/08 - USE AT YOUR OWN RISK: Download
And to be perfectly clear: Shard of Contempt, Blackened Naaru Sliver, the Sunwell Exalted neck, and the Hyjal Fists aren't in here. They will be added when I have time.
Now, can we stop asking stupid questions about 2.4 items? Thanks.
In the interest of putting a stop to the long string of absolutely useless posts that have been made in the past couple pages regarding 2.4 loots and changes, I have added to the first post and am reposting here the link to the beta release of the spreadsheet that has that information in it. It is a beta, and it definitely has bugs, and while you're welcome to post any issues you find I'm not really interested in listening to a lot of complaints about instability or bugginess - I know it's unstable and buggy, that's why it's a beta.
Beta Release, 3/5/08 - USE AT YOUR OWN RISK: Download
And to be perfectly clear: Shard of Contempt, Blackened Naaru Sliver, the Sunwell Exalted neck, and the Hyjal Fists aren't in here. They will be added when I have time.
Now, can we stop asking stupid questions about 2.4 items? Thanks.
/hides
Sorry....lol
On another note, while playing with the beta, I don't know if this is a bug or if it is legit...but having OH Executioner and MH Mongoose was giving me a higher rough DPS, is that right? I was always under the impression that it was supposed to be MH Executioner and OH Mongoose...thoughts?
See, this is the sort of question easily resolved with a bit of searching, as in the past month or so it has been discussed in at least 3 different threads in this forum, including this one. But as long as I'm in the business of reposting information to make it easier to find: the viability of Executioner for rogues is a myth initiated by a bug in this spreadsheet. This bug has since been corrected; the new answer is that, for all intents and purposes, Mongoose is just plain better than Executioner in all known cases, such that it is now recommended that you use double Mongoose instead of Mong/Ex or Ex/Mong.
I just saw these as well. In particular, there was discussion a while back about Fist/Sword spec given the new badge fists. I've heard that there's a blue post saying that unlocking the badge vendor is supposed to take a month or so (though my server is ahead of that schedule). Anyway, given that the badge vendor won't open up for a while and, at first glance, these look to be right around the same level are these worth taking and how do they compare to the badge fist?
EDIT: Assuming I did it correctly (replaced the stats of Rage with Fist of Molten Fury, these are a fair bit behind the badge vendor fists. I'd appreciate some confirmation though
Considering the new fists have a proc that we still have no hard data on...(3 days, slackers), they have worse dps and stats then s3 fists which aren't as good as the badge fists....the proc rate on the 100-150 fire damage would have to be insane for them to be better or even comparable. Give it a month and spend 150 badges if you can stand not to look amazing with your weapons that look like you shanked a shaman for his nikes.
Spent 30 mins on the servant. I need a cookie, and many thanks to Zeeky on Dragonblight who made 1g 08s by killing all the mobs in the area while occasionally casting a renew on me.
I was using the mighty Gnoll Punisher (24s on the AH) in MH - 2.4 speed weapon, no OH. Sword spec. No equipped haste gear.
I'll write some more code later to check this out - but those people who already have scripts - please analyse.
Pewsey has heard about tact and discretion, but tends to regard them much as children view vegetables.
There are only two kinds of MMOs: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody plays. (inspired by Bjarne Stroustrup)
Considering the new fists have a proc that we still have no hard data on...(3 days, slackers), they have worse dps and stats then s3 fists which aren't as good as the badge fists....the proc rate on the 100-150 fire damage would have to be insane for them to be better or even comparable. Give it a month and spend 150 badges if you can stand not to look amazing with your weapons that look like you shanked a shaman for his nikes.
I'm not clear what leads you to believe this, but considering you don't even gain the proc by using the Claw of Molten Fury by itself, it certainly is not going to beat out [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality].
I'm not clear what leads you to believe this, but considering you don't even gain the proc by using the Claw of Molten Fury by itself, it certainly is not going to beat out [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality].
Actually, it probably is. Since the claw from hyjal is 100.3 DPS with a 2.7 attack speed, and vanir's claw is only 2.5 speed.
The difference would be pretty large in the damage production from instant attacks.
If you are going for optimal DPS output, you should probably use a sword in your offhand instead of a fist though.
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Actually, it might.
Since the claw from hyjal is 100.3 DPS with a 2.7 attack speed, and vanir's claw is only 2.5 speed.
The difference would be pretty large in the damage production from instant attacks.
No, it wouldn't. The prime factor is the massive difference in stat allocation. The difference in average damage is only 13, mostly offset by the weapon DPS difference of 3. Even in a fist/sword spec, despite the 2.7 speed, Claw of Molten Fury comes out behind [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality].
(edit) And these are not slight differences, it's in the double digit DPS according to my spreadsheet.
No, it wouldn't. The prime factor is the massive difference in stat allocation. The difference in average damage is only 13, mostly offset by the weapon DPS difference of 3. Even in a fist/sword spec, despite the 2.7 speed, Claw of Molten Fury comes out behind [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality].
(edit) And these are not slight differences, it's in the double digit DPS according to my spreadsheet.
And by this sheet, for that matter. If you plug in the stats for Molten Fury, you'll find it scores roughly 42 EP offensively and 28 EP overall behind Vanir's, which makes for about a 13 DPS difference for me.
...of course, that still leaves it comparable with Blade of Infamy, which says something about the quality level of Infamy (or lack thereof).
Ald, i think you may want to add this to your first post:
Originally Posted by Aldriana
And to be perfectly clear: Shard of Contempt, Blackened Naaru Sliver, the Sunwell Exalted neck, and the Hyjal Fists aren't in here. They will be added when I have time.
Because we all know people are going to make post like this:
I have read the first post and noticed, that you had a beta for the Rogue DPS spreadsheet. I have searched the thread (which we all know they haven't) and read through every post, but i don't see anyone saying anything about it, so i decided to make this post. I noticed [whatever item] isn't in the spread sheet. Which will lead them to asking on of the following questions:
1) How Good is it and all the variations of the question you can think of
2) When are you going to Add it
Hopefully this will cut down on some of the clutter in this thread. Thanks for everything and keep up the good work.
Oh and for people wondering about getting Excel. One of the easiest and cheapest ways to get the programs is, to find a college student and ask them to buy it at their bookstore. You can usually find the entire office suite for like 100 bucks based on the education discount.
Hey, been a while since I posted here or read much. I was looking for information on proc rate and cooldown of the neck and trinket and noticed that like usual there's lots of spam and not much intel. Since Ald didn't include either in to the latest spreadsheet I assume we need more combat log information about them so here you go.
Sinzar and I both auto attacked (no snd or sinister, etc) for about 23 minutes on the dire maul ogres. Both using 10 passive haste from throwing weapon and warglaive set. I had trinket equipped, he had both neck and trinket equipped. I'll link the combat log below so you can use your regular program but based on what we saw there was no proc sooner than 45 seconds on either item (pretty much confirming for certain the internal cooldown on both is 45 sec) and the proc rate on the neck seems higher than on the trinket. With actual snd cycles going with WF and all that jazz I'm willing to bet neck will almost always proc every 50 sec at least. Trinket proc rate seems worse. I'd venture to guess in raid environment it'd be more like every 50-55 sec.
BTW: I know 23 minutes isn't a massive amount of time, but he was also auto attacking while I traveled there for prob 10 mins and had mod announcing in party the time between procs, none of those were ever shorter than 45 sec and several were dead on 45sec.
In sheet 0.9.5b which I used an old cell of [The Bladefist], for new molten fury main hand, quickly filled in stats and checked dps. Seems this was way to early assumption, because sheet was still calculating the proc from old fist called:
Chance on hit: Increases your haste rating by 180 (11.41% @ L70) for 10 sec.
Of course that made item seriously overpowered compared to reality.
Did some logging myself. Dire Maul, 1 weapon equiped (MH). Used 3 different weapons, splitting the logs. Last weapon I logged off for a while in the middle, rest were continuous. I had at least a 1 minute break between each weapon to fully reset cooldowns, etc. Well, actually to log off and change the log file name, but whatever.
Plugging it into the beta spreadsheet (without tinkering) and approximating via 72AP and 44 hit ranks it as 3, about 5ap back from Ashtongue, suggesting that if it were actually modeled as expertise (and you weren't capping), it might be a bit better.
Quite nice, even if this envelope analysis isn't conclusive.
Remember, the proc rate you were calculating is from a parse with only 1 hand attacking, no instants, no WF, no sword spec, etc. This is why we calculate in terms of procs per minute, which then gets applied to both hands and instants. Now due to the internal cooldown on the proc its not a *lot* better.. but it will proc a lot faster after those 45 seconds are gone. It's looking like roughly 40% uptime on average, or ~92 AP.
I've been using it on Brutallus attempts. Very much is an amazing trinket and I certainly love being at Human/BoOD Exp numbers on a fight like that.
As a human, you have to be wary about this trinket. Using swords or maces and having the talent WEx, this trinket should dodge cap you, so this on top of the BoOD will make the Shard or the belt worse than it could be for putting you above 6.5% dodge mitigation.
As a human, you have to be wary about this trinket. Using swords or maces and having the talent WEx, this trinket should dodge cap you, so this on top of the BoOD will make the Shard or the belt worse than it could be for putting you above 6.5% dodge mitigation.
Ah, of course. Misread it the first time. Still, human rogues should keep in mind that this trinket alone caps you =) Unless my math is incorrect on the subject.
It does cap you by itself but its worth it for fights like Brutallus if you employ strats similar to many guilds where rogues are in front and need more expertise to avoid parries.
Attacking from the front is pretty much a no-no, period. Even if you're Expertise-capped in the usual since for rogues (i.e., can't be dodged), you can still be parried, and risking parries on any boss - particularly a hard-hitting boss like Brutalus - is almost always bad. Which is not to say there might not be circumstances when it's worth it, but I wouldn't take being at the undodgeable level of Expertise as free reign to attack from the front.
Spent 30 mins on the servant. I need a cookie, and many thanks to Zeeky on Dragonblight who made 1g 08s by killing all the mobs in the area while occasionally casting a renew on me.
I was using the mighty Gnoll Punisher (24s on the AH) in MH - 2.4 speed weapon, no OH. Sword spec. No equipped haste gear.
I'll write some more code later to check this out - but those people who already have scripts - please analyse.
The data show a 45 second internal cooldown. (The average time in between procs isn't useful since you were only using one weapon, so I didn't include it.) The proc has a 10% chance outside the ICD. Therefore the proc rate should be identical to that of [Hourglass of the Unraveller] and [Tsunami Talisman]; i.e. ~1 PPM.
03/27/08, 5:57 PM
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