Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05/15/07, 4:21 PM   #16
Cel
Great Tiger
 
Cel's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Apate View Post
I can't speak to the latter part of your statement, but I've had more than one pummel blocked in my day. I'd wager that if I took off my +hit gear, I could get a blocked pummel in a very short time frame.
Block and Miss aren't related in any way on the roll chart, if I understand it correctly.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

Offline
Old 05/15/07, 4:35 PM   #17
Apate
POWER = MEAT + OPPORTUNITY = BATTLEWORMS
 
Apate's Avatar
 
ChickenArise
Night Elf Warlock
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Cel View Post
Block and Miss aren't related in any way on the roll chart, if I understand it correctly.
I believe you do and that I have no idea what I was thinking with that part of the statement.

However, I stand by my anecdote of having a pummel blocked, which is the relevant info regarding whether or not a yellow attack can be blocked during a cast. I've also had a shield bash blocked, but the last time I specifically remember that happening was while tanking the shaman during the Thekal event.

See you, auntie.

United States Offline
Old 05/15/07, 4:46 PM   #18
Cel
Great Tiger
 
Cel's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Apate View Post
I believe you do and that I have no idea what I was thinking with that part of the statement.

However, I stand by my anecdote of having a pummel blocked, which is the relevant info regarding whether or not a yellow attack can be blocked during a cast. I've also had a shield bash blocked, but the last time I specifically remember that happening was while tanking the shaman during the Thekal event.
This is something I've wanted to test for some time. I've been told both ways, that yes you can block/parry/dodge attacks while casting, and that the only time you'll see that is if you actually miss the cast time by an instant due to lag and the server returns the result of the interrupt as if there was no cast going on at the time.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

Offline
Old 05/15/07, 4:48 PM   #19
Eylirria
Piston Honda
 
Pandaren Mage
 
Whisperwind
I think the whole assumption that things wouldnt be parried/blocked/dodged while casting come from the recent findings regarding the paladin tanking bug. (Acknowledged by Blizzard, promised a fix soon)

We know some mechanics don't apply to monsters the same way they apply to players. We have all sorts of restrictions (can't dodge from behind, can't block without shield being wielded), whereas I'm sure all of us still scratch our heads when a dual wielding mob blocks an attack... It blocked? With What? Still remember level 20 bears partially blocking my attacks as well. WTB: Druid Block, PST.

So don't take that assumption too much to heart regarding what the mob is doing. But sure, it would be best to conduct testing on monsters we are guaranteed a 100% clear test that doesn't involve things we don't completely understand.

Brazil Offline
Old 05/15/07, 5:32 PM   #20
Apate
POWER = MEAT + OPPORTUNITY = BATTLEWORMS
 
Apate's Avatar
 
ChickenArise
Night Elf Warlock
 
No WoW Account
Well, if we're really testing things, we should do so on both players and mobs.

Of course, we are hoping that the observed behavior jives with the intended as always, so hopefully that bug fix will indeed come 'soon.'

See you, auntie.

United States Offline
Old 05/16/07, 4:35 AM   #21
suicuique
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Antonidas (EU)
Originally Posted by Nalisol View Post
I'll try this conceptual test again with 350 weapon skill against level 60s to try to verify Punscho's data.
The interesting thing about weapon skill is its supposed usefullness against higher level mobs. Especially +3 Lvl mobs.
I know that this makes testing as a Lvl 70 player a little more difficult (read: raid settings), but e.g. for tanking purposes I dont give a damn how weapon skill scales against equal level mobs. Back in the day when weapon skill was changed, the blue stated explicitely that weapon skill woul get more usefull with higher level mobs.

What would the easiest skull mob be to test this on? Attumen?
I'd like to contribute to the testing but atm I have not a single piece of + weapon skill gear.

Offline
Old 05/16/07, 4:40 AM   #22
Nalisol
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Maiev
Originally Posted by suicuique View Post
What would the easiest skull mob be to test this on? Attumen?
I'd like to contribute to the testing but atm I have not a single piece of + weapon skill gear.
Actually, due to the way skull mobs work, I believe they're always 3 levels higher than you. You can go find old raid bosses, and they should work correctly. However, the old bosses still do the same damage, they're only level 73 for the purposes of attack tables.

So I'm thinking maybe the snake boss in ZG? In phase 1, he doesn't do much after you kill the adds. He even heals himself to make things easier.

Offline
Old 05/16/07, 4:46 AM   #23
songster
Chief Passenger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by suicuique View Post
What would the easiest skull mob be to test this on? Attumen?
Onyxia. You could have phase 1 last more or less indefinitely with one tank and one healer. Maybe two healers if you were feeling worried. Eventually she'd get to phase 2, but with only a tank doing damage, that'd take a long time.

Tank could swap in sword/axe to check the effect of racials, swap in some weapon with +skill to double check by giving a third data point. Could also swap in 2h/sword-and-board/DW to check any other effects on (e.g.) hit.

It'd be very long and boring to do so, but that's pretty much a given for testing any small effects.

Great Britain Offline
Old 05/16/07, 5:19 AM   #24
Theras
Bald Bull
 
Theras's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
High Priest Venoxis would definitely be the easiest target to try. His adds have only 15k life and would die rather rapidly to three level 70's, and the boss himself hits like a young boar. I observed a max melee hit of around 550, and he frequently stops to cast spells that you have a good chance of resisting. He also casts Renew on himself, making the parse infinitely sustainable.

On Thursday night a friend and I are going to have our way with Venoxis on the PTR with me boxing two identically geared Paladins: one with 350 weapon skill, and one with 365 weapon skill. We're hoping to go around 3-5 hours with him to hit a low margin of error.

Canada Offline
Old 05/17/07, 10:13 PM   #25
Theras
Bald Bull
 
Theras's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Results thus far:

- High Priest Venoxis definitely doesn't have an enrage timer.
- 40 minutes in Venoxis appears to have run out of mana, and is very slowly dying to the might of our twin Proximo's Rudius. I wonder if he'll save up mana to cast Renew once we get him down a bit of life.
- Treeform Lifebloom in 2.1 is hot shit. Hello infinite 600 HP/s on two people.

Canada Offline
Old 05/18/07, 12:09 AM   #26
LiteSabre
Chef
 
Ramsay
Orc Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Sorry for contributing nothing meaningful to the discussion, but I've been following the thread intently and the mental image of the high priest of a primal god being slowly beaten to death by a walking tree and two men with rusty swords was just hilarious.

On a more relevant note, 40 minutes with a 1.5 weapon on autoattack would yield around... 1600 attacks? Do you have any promising evidence yet or is it too early to be sure?

Offline
Old 05/18/07, 12:17 AM   #27
Theras
Bald Bull
 
Theras's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
We're going for over 10 000 swings before saying anything conclusive. Anything less would have a pretty significant margin of error. Runs on Venoxis are lasing about 40-60 minutes depending on how quickly we kill the snakes, so it'll be a while yet.

Canada Offline
Old 05/18/07, 2:52 AM   #28
Theras
Bald Bull
 
Theras's Avatar
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Well, we got up to 8000-ish swings on both Paladins when we had a weapon break at some point, and we're too f'in tired to find where it was in the combat log tonight. We shall continue tomorrow night after the raid.

From what I could see – and this is very, very preliminary – it's looking like weapon skill from a DPS perspective is at least roughly on par with an equally weighted combination of Hit and Crit Ratings, but it also digs into Dodges that Hit Rating can't touch. Jury's still out on the tanking perspective, since we got some bizarro results with Parry on individual 45-60 minute runs at Venoxis, but we'll see if the combined log helps shed some light on that mystery.

Last edited by Theras : 05/18/07 at 4:22 AM.

Canada Offline
Old 05/18/07, 4:17 AM   #29
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
That's sick, hilarious and most likely very very helpful.

Can't wait to hear your results.

Stopped Playing

Offline
Old 05/18/07, 5:09 AM   #30
Nalisol
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Maiev
Wow, I also can't wait for the results.

I have my own test, but the numbers show nothing new...

I went and wacked level 60s using auto-attack only with 350 Weapon Skill for a bit. Same result as Punscho, no dodges and no parries. This time I used daggers, so there's no stunning getting in the way either. Targets were various level 60 humanoids in Hellfire Peninsula.

Weapon Skill 350, Daggers
1138 Attacks
1133 Landed
5 Miss
0 Dodge
0 Parry

Then to make sure that the level 62 test wasn't just the mobs that was fighting that one time, I went and attacked some level 62 Orcs outside of SH.

Weapon Skill 360, Maces (with mace spec)
218 Attacks
212 Landed
0? Miss (I don't have any written down when I copied the data by hand out of recap. Doesn't really matter anyway.)
6 Parry
0 Dodge

So it wasn't just the mobs I was fighting last time. 350 Skill on 60s is not the same as 360 Skill on 62s.

Last edited by Nalisol : 05/18/07 at 5:16 AM.

Offline
 

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Weapon Skill Kiklion The Dung Heap 1 07/10/07 4:20 AM
Weapon Skill falynx The Dung Heap 3 06/22/07 1:34 PM
Weapon Skill in PvP Sikul Class Mechanics 2 06/11/07 6:47 PM
+ weapon skill? Husyor Class Mechanics 58 06/07/07 3:28 PM
Weapon Skill Bugged in Beta? Liand Public Discussion 396 11/24/06 5:42 PM