◊ Rob

I think you need to edit these just to be 100% clear:
2. Add a percent symbol after .1
3. Add a percent symbol after .4

 

Olgas

Good suggestions. Done.

 

Suran

I proudly present: Analysis and AnaFu,
a statistic collection tool and it's FuBar plugin, exclusively programmed just for you guys

What does it do?
It collects data and gives you statistics about your hit/miss chances agains a specific moblevel for your different hitratings and weaponskills.

How to use it?
Just start hitting mobs. If you want (at the moment pretty ugly) details, use the 'print' command ( like /analysis print level 69 to see you hit/crit/miss rates against level 69 Mobs)
The output is ordered on toplevel by yout hitrating an weaponskill. Then comes the Moblevel ( -1 for bosses) and then your specials (like Sinister Strike) and the your hit/miss/glacing. (maybe just try it, it's somewhat selfexplanatory if you know your hitrating and stuff )
The FuBar plugin is mainly to enable/disable debugging or to show ALL collected data (a LOT!) when i have time, all options Analysis supports will be added.

The obstacles:
At the moment it is not possible to determine, if your target is affekted by an buff/debuff which increases YOUR hit (like improved fearie fire), so you have to stop collecting data manually, or it will screw up your numbers!
Please be aware that only hitRATING can be determined, so you still have to remeber your talents!
When i know how to figure out the numbers, i will use them
Output is in chatwindow only, so no copy and paste at the moment But that's my next goal..but Datacollection works, so fire it up guys.

Warranty:
There is none, feel free to check the addon-code, it's not that hard and most work is done by libraries ^^
However i bet there are lots od bugs, so please report them to me

Maybe this helps you to get the numbers you're looking for.
If you have requests, qhat to change, just tell me: b00gy@gmx.de

Cheers Suran

 

◊ Lactose

Regarding buffs, etc... wouldn't something similar to DebuffFilter be an idea? I.e. monitor the debuffs/buffs you select, and tell whether or not they were active?

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Suran

Sort of, yeah.
The problem: there is NO way you can tell the difference between Faerie Fire and Improved Faerie Fire. So the Debuff part on the boss is not possible track, at last not to my knowledge.
You could track imp faerie if you yourself would cast it...why just annihilates the complete idea of debuff-tracking imho...

Tracking Buffs/Debuffs on you: thats works, but you'd have to make a list which debuff does what (like -5% hit) so you have to keep some sort of buff/debuff database. Maybe i will add this, but are there so many de/buffs that affekt the player? i mean if there are 2 or 3 bosses you can't collect data on, would that be too bad?

 

sp00n

For improved faerie fire, this could be quite difficult if not impossible.
There is no way to tell the difference between a normal FF and an improved FF from the tooltip of the debuff on the mob, it just says Faerie Fire and decreases armor by X. You can however see when it was applied by a bear, then it's Fearie Fire (Feral). But there's no such thing as (Moonkin) or (Improved).


// Edit
Bah, even too late.

 

Skarrzog

I have not done any math on this. But i can tell you from personal experience. I am a 2h warrior, human of course, and i use cataclysms. So i was testing out skill rating this week, to see what of an effect it had.

During hyjal/bt i used 7.04% hit, now this is above the 6% that we think should be cap; without surprise i had no misses the entire week in these two places.

Now, i decided to drop down my hit%, and tested this out again just one night on Mulgar/Gruul. This time i used 5.83% hit rating. On Mulgar i did miss 1 execute, however on Gruul I did not miss any attacks.

So from what I have seen so far, just from experience I would have to agree that at 355 Weapon Skill against bosses it gives you about 3% hit.

 

sp00n

Thr 3% for the first 5 skill points are quite accepted and proven by now. What we're trying to find out is how much 1 point weapon skill gives you (or 2, 3 and 4) if you haven't reached that 'magic number' of 5 skill points.

As far as my testings concern, raid today so no new data on 354 skill.
I have however began to save my combatlogs and split them up into my own (350 skill), other rogues with 360 skill and tank with 353 skill (mace from lurker), to gather some sample sizes for parry and dodge ratings.

So far I'm at 6.32% dodge in 3847 melee attacks / 5.8% dodge in 827 special attacks.
360 skill is at 4.88% dodge in 2887 melee attacks / 5.81% dodge in 706 special attacks.
353 skill (tank) looks at 5.16% dodge in 853 melee attacks / 6.03% dodge in 1975 special attacks.

Weapon skill definitely seems to have an impact on dodge rating. Yet it also seems to be different for white melee attacks and yellow special attacks.
I'll just go on with logging the raid data, maybe I'll even wind up with a 6.5% dodge rating, which would make me happily postulate a 0.1% per point of weapon skill formula.

 

Karmon

Sadly I will not be able to continue further with the testing.
I left my guilde today so no access to raidcontent atm.

 

suicuique

To back this further up, here's my data when I was maintanking Archimonde.
Weapon Skill 355 (from gear ... 21 rating to be exact), attacking always from the front, Archimonde does a cast animation now and then (which could interfere with his avoidance rate) but it is not a significant portion of the encounter time.

I have data for revenge, devastate, heroic strike, autoattack and shield slams.
Swung 2948 times.

Miss Rate: 1.05%
Dodge Rate: 5.2 %
Parry Rate: 12.5 %

Note the 1.05% miss rate. I had 79 hit rating (=5.01% to hit).
I have to look at the data again to see if there is a significant dodge variance for white/yellow attacks. But IIRC there was not.
To extrapolate from here we'd need comparable data from a tank sporting less than 5 weapon skill. Someone with a [Mallet of the Tides] e.g.
I think I've got an idea who is going to tank him for us the next time

 

Giske

I'm at 293 hit rating and 366 weapon skill so I'm pretty close to the proposed 299 cap earlier, however it seems that this theory is now out the window? I can get a Belt of Deep Shadow crafted to get to 327 hit rating and then adjust stuff around to test out with 360 skill. Just give me some hit ratings I should aim for to test out and I'll give it a whirl. I can also get +10 to my boots and try out 303 with 366.

 

sp00n

No, the theory is not out of the window, in fact the tests you're proposing are very well determined by now.
With 360 skill you need 307.5 hit rating to not miss, and each point of weapon skill reduces that by further 0.1% (once you have reached that 5 skill points).
So with 366 skill you'd be looking at 23.9% miss rate against bosses, or 298.04 hit rating required with Precision.

Again, this is the table we're currently working on and where tests are only required for the part from +1 to +4 weapon skill.
Hit rating numbers imply Precision.


Once we're sure that it is correct, I think it should be linked/taken over in the OP as well.
Also making different tables for different types (one-hand, dual wield, no precision), which is no big deal.

 

songster

Do we have any idea what happens for mobs at +4 levels or higher?

 

Giske

Ah, OK. 299 it is then.

 

Nakhed

Just signed up here not 5 minutes ago but I began messing around with "theorycrafting" early this week for the first time becuase i really want to help my guild out and for the first time in my WoW lifetime ive began to aquire Tier pieces and im the best equipped ive ever been. With this comes new responsibilties that im really trying to do well at. SO...to the meat of this

Im a 70 orc warrior 33Arms/28Fury/0Prot
The Armory

so ive got the racial +5 to axe skill as well as an additional +4 off arms's Wepaon Mastry

Being arms for the first time ever since i got Gorehowl a few weeks ago has been fun but then everyone started talking to me about hit caps and crazy statistical stuff (personally i just put stuff on that looks cool, a few pts in stats doesnt make a difference to me, not that ive never heard of any of this stuff since WoW came out and i started playing, ive just played with less serious players for a long time.) Now with my gear ive gotten to a 130hit raiting and im 359/350 2h axe skill and from what ive come to understand reading through this series of posts and chuncks of the "DPS Warrior Spreadsheet" i just wanted to see if Ive technically reached my hit cap because my +9wep skill would make up for the extra 12hit rating im supposed to have (130/142) from post #383 in this thread.

Also i was playing around with a spreadsheet i got off file front "Warrior_0.1.1.1" but like half of my gear isnt there and DeathWing's spreadsheet i downloaded i cant get to work at all. Just curious if anyone is farmiliar with another MS/DPS warrior spreadsheet because id like to see how to use these things effectivly.

*just as a disclaimer if any of this post was tacky please let me know so i dont do it again, if i get the opportunity*

Thanks!

 

JamesVZ

With 359 weapon skill, you need 88.31 hit rating (round that sucker up to 89) to make the hit cap.

 

Nakhed

only 89? for PvE on lvl 73mobs too?

 

sp00n

Yes, with 359 skill you're facing a 5.6% miss rate with a two handed weapon against boss mobs, and this is the 89 hit rating mentioned by JamesVZ (5.6*(10*82/52)= 88.31).

The 9 additional skill reduce your miss rate by 3.4% (against 3 levels higher).

 

Stock

people seem fixed upon 354-355 weapon skill, i dont fully understand why, when pretty much all combat rogues have 360 weapon skill, putting them at a lvl 72 mob.

what if from gear, such as "Grips of Deftness" and "Spaulders of the Stranger", adding 25 Weapon skill rating total, gives another 6 Weapon Skill, adding up to being a lv 73 mob.

Id love to see numbers for this kind of trial and error, what hit rating is needed to be cap'd out, etc. And its not just for these 2 pieces of gear stated earlier, theres also "Belt of One-Hundred Deaths" and the "Fang of Vashj", which can be swaped, etc to keep you at a lvl 73 level mob.

down to the point, id love to see numbers for 365 weapon skill for DW. im new to this testing and numbers, that is why i ask for help on the subject. thank you for your time.

 

• Aldriana

The reason why there are no numbers in the recent posts about 365 weapon skill is because the values for 355+ weapon skill were established months ago; the base miss chance with 355 skill is 25%, and every 1 point of skill thereafter gives .1% hit.

The reason why 350-355 is interesting right now is because a) the answer wasn't known until now, and b) not all rogues are combat, nor are all melee dpsers rogues. For warriors and enhancement shaman and mutilate or hemo rogues, the 350-355 range is highly relevant.

 

Idris

EDIT: nevermind, Aldriana already answered the question above

 

Stock

ok thats cool and all but... has anyone looked into the 365 zone for testing? all i know 365 rating does is increase hit by 1% after 355, or 15.77 Hit rating, makin it useless over certain other gear. Theres gotta be solid numbers for Dodge change as well, and how much miss chance is reduced.


i know wars n shamans dont care, but i know the combat rogue crowd are looking for the maxium dps possible and its still not 100% clear. altho i do commend everyone who works hard to find these numbers, and does all the testing. once i get the gear i will test it myself, but right now im just curious and eager to find the answer :'(

 

Dontmindme

We are still trying to get to the bottom of the Dodge question. So far, it has proven to be more difficult to test (especially since there is no way to reach 0 Dodge with the available weapon skill which has proven to be the best way to really nail down the mechanic). The short answer is its being worked on along with "Parry" as this is of big interest to tanks.

As to your other questions, tests regarding hit rating have been done at those ranges. Each weapon skill reduced your "Miss" chance by 0.1% (which is a more accurate way of portraying the effect of hit rating). That part of the equation is solid. That is how much the miss chance is reduced; that's what it means to increase hit by 0.1%.

As far as Dodges are concerned, there is some thought that weapon skill may reduce these by 0.1% as well, but so far that is not nearly confirmed. We are still trying to figure out what the base dodge rate really is for bosses and whether the weapon skill effect to dodge is linear vs. bosses.

 

Stock

thank you. if i get a chance to test any gear and see results, i will be sure to post them here. Recount is the standard mod for these observations right?

 

Lapp

Hello, I thought this would be a relevant question to ask here.

I am a 17/44 orc warrior, currently using a Drakefist Hammer in my MH, with almost enough nethers for Dragonmaw. I'll be getting the S2 OH axe soon (since it'll benefit from the +weapon skill racial where the mace, sword, etc won't). Considering the following mechanic changes, would it be worth it to respec axesmithing for the Planar Edge line?

1. Haste rating nerf
2. PPM nerf (uses current weapon speed, not base)
3. The 5 weapon skill I would be gaining since I am orc; apparently this gives 3% or so hit, some crit, and minus dodge?

Currently, the Mace BS line is hands-down better for on orc because of 1 and 2 not being in effect despite the increased weapon skill with axe; however, with the reduction in potency of 1 and 2, will I see better results with the Axe BS line? I'm pretty sure that if I wasn't orc, the mace would still be the better choice... but will the weapon skill tip it into axe's favor? Thanks.