koaschten

The point i try to make is, you CANT gather a huge enough sample size in 1 weapon skill increments, because you will level your weapon skill up too fast.

 

Zouzette

I've read through this thread (not all the posts obviously) and ended up kinda lost. So far I understood that how +skill affects +hit (depending on mob's defense) has been worked out but not how it affects dodge/parry/crit.
I don't think I understand everything yet so I have a simple question, hoping someone with a better knowledge of the subject will help me:

Is it interesting for me to keep stacking +skill (for instance, get the Fang of Vashj)?
I have precision, 2/2 WEx, 247 hit and 368 WS (Shoulderpads of the Stranger and Belt of One Hundred Deaths).

 

Oscarvil

That's why you do it with your skill maxed for the level and do increments with talents.

 

koaschten

Unless i am totally lost ... Weapon Expertise adds 5/10 weapon skill... the same you would add with being a level higher or two... there is no 1 2 3 4 ... only 5 and 10 for Weapon Expertise and +5/level if you level up.

edit: the only way doing increments of 1-4 would be while leveling up your weaponskill after level up... which leads to the already discussed problem again. TOO LITTLE sample size.

 

Grunge

Rogue Mace spec is 2/4/6/8/10 skill.
It's also possible to get Death's Sting or Twin-Bladed Ripper, Aged Core Leather Gloves or Mugger's Belt, Circlet of Restless Dreams or Distracting Dagger, Blood-Guided Knife or Skilled Fighting Blade. Fang of Vashj isn't that good because it increases by 5 skill.

But using any combination of the those items it's possible to manipulate dagger skill.
Sword skill is a bit harder since there are less items to choose from.

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

koaschten

Grunge, unless i missed the point, we were talking about testing Weapons Skill with a high 40 low 50 char to have some tests around the +3 lvl scenario on blasted lands mobs?

 

Oscarvil

Ah yes sorry I thought mace skill was 1 skill per point... well going up in 2-skill steps is ok. I really think we're gonna see the most change between 4 and 5 skill to be honest.

Also the Defias Leather set has a couple of dagger skill on it in the set bonus.

 

• Koban

Filters always come in handy.

Filtered items wich have + dagger skill: Items - World of Warcraft

Sword skill: Items - World of Warcraft

 

Wilken

Hello I've been reading through and still am a bit confused, with 350 weapon skill for single wield is the miss rate 9% or 13%. I am seeing both listed through a script linked on the page saying these are the correct formulas

Here is what I am using:
For a Paladin
Hit formula for when your weapon skill is within 10 skill of boss defense aka sword skill for humans
.05 + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill)*.001

Hit Rating Formula for when your Weapon skill is more then 10 levels different then boss defense skill
7% + (Defense Skill - Weapon Skill - 10)*.004

Sword/Mace Skill Human 355
Sword/Mace Skill Other 350
Boss Defense Skill 365
Weapons expertise talent 5/5= 5 Weapon skill

Effectivly this brings a non human into line with a human in terms of sword skill.
Weapon Miss non human 0 hit rating: 13%
Weapon Miss human 0 hit rating: 6%

With Weapons Expertise
Weapon Miss non human 0 hit rating: 5.5% (effectivly 6%)
Weapon Miss human 0 hit rating: 5%

5 point talent that gives you 7% hit rating?

 

Nite_Moogle

With 350 skill, the yellow attack miss rate against ?? NPCs is 9%. At 355, you've gained 3% hit so it becomes 6%.

I really have no idea what the rest of your post is talking about. The only 13% 'miss rate' is what a fire or frost mage has after 3/3 Elemental Precision.

 

Wilken

I messed up my math, Nevermind. Thanks

 

Okhlopkov

Just as we (we as the community, not me specifically in any way) discovered the value of weapon skill, Blizzard has announced they are eliminating weapon skill and replacing it with "Expertise" in the 2.3 patch notes. One has to wonder if the discoveries of this thread had played a role in this change. /mourn weapon skill

 

• Vulajin

At least they're telling us straight out what the new stat will do. The real question is, can we still be confident that the base 28% miss chance will apply for 73 mobs, or do we need to re-test it?

 

Punscho

It will probably be the same since with expertise you can in theory remove all avoidance meaning you can reach 100% hit...

Drool?

 

PessimiStick

21 Expertise + 363 Hit Rating *should* mean you never fail to land an attack from behind.

(Assuming that Dodge doesn't act like miss and have a huge spike offset by 5 weapon skill. I don't believe it does though.)

 

Kelestre

Hm, won't the stat be rather expensive for us? Since we (generally) aren't affected by Parry, this mainly only helps us with the Dodge reduction.

Given that the first 5 Weapon Skill currently reduces the miss-rate by 3%, it would take 12 Expertise to reduce the dodge-rate by the same 3%.

On the positive side, Expertise is a constant value unlike Weapon Skill which dropped off significantly after those first 5 points. Though I suppose once you're talking about 21 Expertise to fully cancel the dodge-rate that it's a more efficient stat than Weapon Skill.

So here's my question - Does this make the Surprise Attacks talent completely unnecessary?

 

PessimiStick

SA only affects Rupture really, Expertise would protect all of your SS/BS/Mut's. Plus SA still has the 10% damage buff.

 

• Vulajin

I wouldn't say so. Surprise Attacks is roughly equal to 21 free expertise on finishers. Even if racials grant 5 expertise and Weapon Expertise grants 10 (not bloody likely), it would take an additional 6 (24 rating) to completely negate those dodges with expertise.

 

Kelestre

Well that's what I'm saying. If you have 21 Expertise so that none of your auto-attacks or specials can be dodged, then all SA provides is 10% damage on SS and BS. That's an extremely weak 41-point talent in my opinion.

 

Xav

Expertise is going to be so ridiculously amazing for tanks, I am now happy I rolled human warrior instead of any other race. (Well, as alliance). This is wonderful news. Amazing news. This is the best change I've read for tanks in ages! Well this and the devastate thing... oh god I am so excited.

Anyway, at least the mystery is now solved and they made the stat more useful while they're at it!

 

PessimiStick

My point was more that the anti-dodge part of SA isn't really doing much for you now, so "losing" it to Expertise won't change the value of the talent much. It's good for the damage buff, the finisher protection was more of a PvP bonus generally.

 

Gruntle

Hmm, they are not writing anything about the effect Expertise will have (if any) on miss chance. Maybe it's the same as weapon skill, but I wouldn't be surprised if they changed this without saying anything about it. I guess we will have to do new tests after 2.3...

 

reydien

The benefit of expertise is that it is a means to reduce miss chance other than +hit%. If you are already hit capped, adding more hit is useless, where as reducing dodge rate still has value.

Also, the bonus from expertise is independent of monster level, so against a lvl 70 opponent you only need 2 expertise to equal 5 weapon skill, and +4 weapon skill against a raid boss equals 6.4 expertise.

Finally, partial +weapon skill is currently useless, whereas partial expertise should still provide benefit. No more looking at that +3.86 weapon skill and knowing that 21% of your weapon skill rating is providing no benefit.

 

Waldar

A good thing also seems to be the stacking of the Expertise statistic without being focus on any specific weapon.

 

reydien

I am expecting it to still be weapon-specific, at least as far as current content goes. I figure it'll be like "+5 expertise with Axes" for Orcs, and "+X Expertise Rating with <weapon-type>" on current gear. What this does open the window for, however, are future items that do provide general +expertise.