Hi all,

I just wanted to ask everybody if anyone has expirience concerning the following question:

"Is a fury-warror in bossfights as profitable for the raid as a ms-warri, esspecially in consideration of the 4% damage-increase-buff, for other melee-damage-dealer, by the ms-warri?"

In fact, if you have to choose between a fury- or a ms-warri, the fury-warri has to do more damage than the ms-warri + the damage done by other melees by the 4%-damage-debuff on the encounter. Normally we have two rogues, two hunters, one retro-paladine, one feral-druid (tank/melee), two def-tanks and one damage-warri (fury/ms, that's the question) in our setup. Is the Fury-Warri as strong? hat would you suppose?

If I were a raid leader, and if there's only a single DPS warrior slot, it'd go to a warrior with bloody frenzy, for the exact reason you listed. The only problem might be the number of debuff slots, a single MS warrior could take up to 4: rend, deep wounds, blood frenzy and MS.

P.S. I'm not a raid leader nor in top progression guild.

Well there is no need to rend at all with the dmg it does.

So we are talking 3 debuffs that will be on.

The issue is that the MS warrior should be extra carefull with the aggro he will generate, and also since he cannot go 31/30 he will have 3/5 flury as well.
His dps WILL be less than a fury warr.

The extra 4% now depends on the fight, and how many melees you bring on it.

Also atm a good fury warrior needs to be half leather since itemisation is a bit crap atm for plate and +hit gear.

We are running with 1 Fury atm, but I would like to have an ms as well for the debuff since on heave rogue/melee encouters that last 10 mins, it is alot +dmg for the raid.

The 4% shouldn't affect Hunters, just their pets by the way.

Care to explain why it should not? Just from the description (some tooltips are correct after all) I would be surprised if it did not.

Lies and slander! I raid with my 8300 armor unbuffed fury warrior, all plate. It's not a reason to have bad hit. I've found my hit% softspot being at about 14.10%, easy to keep up in plate, even though I use mostly 8str/4str4crit/8crit gems

it depends on the fight; blood frenzy usually lets me match the contribution of a fury warrior, but a lot of bosses are immune to bleed effects, like hydross and void reaver

on the other hand, at bosses like solarian and karathress where I can use sweeping strikes frequently and keep MS/WW on cooldown I contribute a lot more than a fury warrior, though my DPS on morogrim is consistently bad and I'm not really sure why

and I would be very, very surprised if blood frenzy differentiated between ranged physical and melee physical. buffs that do differentiate, like battle shout and hunter's mark, work off of AP, but blood frenzy is a pure % multiplier

overall it's kind of a tossup; I'd actually say that fury is a more reliable overall PvE build, and I'd probably be fury now if I wasn't on a 5v5 and we didn't have a couple competent fury warriors already. 2.1 may change things, though - I see the glancing change helping arms DPS more than fury

Why would the glancing change help arms more than fury when fury has more white dps ?

Actually the best DPS Pieces are Plate. Blizzard thought about the stats this time.

From experience, the damage I'll do as fury actually is more than the raid damage increase via Blood Frenzy. Now, we're not exactly melee heavy, we bring three rogues, me, and that's about all. It might affect the balance if you're bringing things like cat druids and ehn shaman. With the changes to GBs, and assuming the arms warrior has both the cat druid and ehn shaman in his group and gets WF, his DPS will be very viable. Still, less than a good fury warrior, even in a lot of AoE situations, but still, definitely in the running. If you include the extra raid damage in that situation from BF, it will most likely out-perform the single Fury warrior.

As far as Blood Frenzy goes, I'm positive that it affects Ranged, but our hunters won't cooperate with me and help me test it. Bah, they all auto-shot afk anyway.

I have to wear leather, simply because the horrible luck I've been having on DPS plate drop. You can get very good stats wearing plate, even with lower level raids and 5-mans.

Does it really matter? Lets say I had a slot for dps, absolutely wanted the best team and only had the two warriors to choose from. I would pick the guy that knows his spec inside and out, has great gear and knows how to handle his aggro.

Maybe i'm just different since I prefer to gauge a team by the players rather than the toons.

I just took one of our WWS from Kazzak where we needed 2 tries :>

http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uc...20070520-2320/

Ignore the charts, we got a heavy melee dps and our casters suck quite hard ^^

Nevertheless we've done 1.485.385 Normal Damage to him. If you take away the hunter's damage you'll come up with 1.069.081 Melee Damage.

A little math in the morning

104 % = 1069081 (1485385)
4% = 41118.5 (56091.7)

So you can say that your Blood Frenzy contributed 41118.5 (56091.7) damage

So here you could say, if you do about 42k (56k) more damage with Fury than with Arms then you should rather respec :>

Depending on the duration of the encounter the gap between Fury and Arms will get larger, that's what I saw :>

Ps. we got a wipe in Vanilla WoW in one of our first Patchwerk tries just because I spec'd to MS, of course that was before the new talents^^

The debuff says physical damage, not melee damage. Are you having trouble reading?

http://www.thottbot.com/s30070

The Talent says melee damage.

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba.../talents.html?

Talent tooltips are hardly gospel though whilst the de-buff on thottbot is the actual in-game mechanic applied.

How hard is it to write 'warrior'?

Anyway, where DPS matters and you're melee intensive an MS Warrior with Blood Frenzy will be more valuable than a Fury Warrior will. This is assuming both players are as skilled and as geared as each other, it's a more even spread of damage anyway as that 4% more raid wide physical damage coming from a single Fury warrior might cause threat issues. If I was you I'd lose the Ret Pally and get a Fury Warrior in and then you can have the best of both worlds.

AFAIK, thott simply datamines the description field, which may or may not be updated when a spell changes.

I actually found the opposite Gasmask, I wen't up in damage from arms translating to fury, was using gorehowl then switched to fools bane offhanded with edge of the cosmos. Though that was kara raiding and most undead units are immune to bleed >(

Really and truley about this topic, I don't think you can really discern a clear better tree over the other, they both work equaly well and are more down to your current gear and more importantly, your play style.

Though if I had to pick, i'd go fury, as getting a back to back sword spec crit proc on a mob with a 2h that has 2 seconds of aggro from the MT involes a greater death rate then back to back crits off of 2 piddly little one hands.