I wouldnt necesarilly agree with that. I'd say if it were at around 90% maybe even 85% of a rogue's damage it would be reasonable, due to the fact that a feral does bring other things to the raid as well (Bres, innervate, spot heal, OT etc)

90% is where our damage should be on a WWS parse, after all is said and done with party buffs and whatnot. We are WAY too low to be considered dps right now.

Then why do you persist in considering yourselves DPS at the tier 6 level instead of off-tanks with better DPS than 50+ prot warriors?

It seems fairly clear, given the itemization, that in kara feral druids are supposed to be a viable OT choice that actually offeres decent DPS to compensate for the fact that it's a 10 man group with 6-7 DPS. With only 6-7 people the DPS really was necessary to make progression possible because sacrificing a large portion of DPS on one slot is huge when you only have 6-7 people DPSing. Fastforward to 25 man content and suddenly the denominator of this equation is much bigger so the DPS difference from a 'pure' DPS class is much less significant.

Is it possible to swap in a pure DPS for DPS check fights you can barely beat and an OT isn't necessary? Yeah sure it's possible, it's also fairly insignificant. Even if you assume that a druid is 10% of a rogue's damage and the fight is just barely possible with the rogue, which is overstating the diminished capacity of druid DPS by quite a bit, the raid DPS need only improve by 4.5-5.3% in order to make up for the loss. How long is it going to take for the raid to accumulate enough drops to make up the difference?

Cheep shotting someone just because their guild isn't linked in their profile on this forums is about the kind of bullshit I'd expect on the wow forums, not here.

Because offtanking is
A) Easy
B) Rarely needed
C) Easily hotswappable

Furthermore, offtank has a minimum requirement. Hold the mob and stay alive. Once those needs are met, more performance there isn't needed. Especially as compared to more dps. Holding the mob more and staying alive better aren't high on the list of desirable quantities in a raid slot, so once a fury warrior has demonstrated that they can hold the offtank mob they start looking MUCH better as a raid slot.

I agree completely man. The problem is that I think the devs ARE thinking this way. They added the auras to provide raid utility and viability. Otherwise the LOTP would be raid wide or castable on others. Even if you DO consider this we are still way below for serious competition.

They have to get over the fact that we can switch from a "rogue" to a "warrior" to a "caster". It costs mana and the current iteration involves the same stat stacking for maximum use as any other class. It is the same ole same ole, "but you can heal, but you can DPS, but you can tank," argument holding us back. A Feral Druid should be able to do EXACTLY what an arms or fury warrior can do, with proper gear of course, OT and DPS effectively and competitively, NOT push rogues out of their position, but make it viable.

There are so many solutions from decent Idols to better weapon scaling to stat synergy to specialized weapons. It isn't just weapon scaling or item budget, it is basic design flaw. They STILL do not get it.

It really reminds me of the change from AQ where Ferals were starting to hold their own and be contenders and viable, and then Naxx hit and it is was a wasteland for feral itemization and viability.

I don't think it will change. The MO seems to be Ferals are tanks for everyone to level while the warriors are fury and then we OT for a bit in raids and are pushed out in the last instance of the end game while everyone else gets their uber shiny epics and legendarys.

Cause no rogues ever play using daggers, we ALL want 2.5+ weapons.

Where do you come up with this garbage?

Um..lets see here:

A dagger rogue would want daggers of roughly 1.6-1.8ish MH and if possible 1.3ish for OH.

So lets go with 1.8 and 1.3 for weapon speeds.

In this case you will get:

In 6 seconds, not counting SnD, haste, or any weapon speed inc., you will get 7 swings from your MH(3 @ 5.4 sec) and OH(4 @ 5.2 sec). Now a Druid with their "godly" 1 sec Atk speed will get 6. So you tell me man would you rather have 6 or 7 swings.

You missed the point completely.

Not only that, going by the numbers Dejablue posted, it appears that he neither subtracted 41.4 dps (the iLvl 63 blue 1H that seems to be aligned with the FAP "zero" for scaling purposes) from the rogue weapons nor added 55 dps to the druid FAP (base paw) before doing percentage calculations in upgrades. (Not that one should do both, but either would seem appropriate if trying to do a percentage-wise-upgrade comparison for weapon damage, the choice of which depending on what the comparison would be used for, but adding base paw making most sense in most circumstances)

Your point stands, of course, but that percentage trickery Dejablue seems to have inadvertently used makes for truly weird results. Doing it for e.g. two of the lowest iLvl Feral weapons, [Angerstaff] (81) and [Primal Lore-Staff] (87) (and let's assume they have an awful suffix that doesn't add to their combat stats) that's a HUGE increase of 28 AP (2 white dps) for a whopping 28/46 ~ 60.9% upgrade while a poor rogue's mainhand (again without combat stats) going from green iLvl 81 to 87 only increases from 44.6 dps to 46.7 dps, a mere 2.0-2.1 dps upgrade (depending on rounding), i.e, at BEST, 2.1/44.6 ~ 4.7% upgrade.... One could, based on that, reach the false conclusion that druid weapons scaled much better than rogue weapons percentage-wise - a good example of how one should be careful with percentages.

The two bolded percentage values are absolutley not related to each other. You compare a "AP-increase":AP ratio to a "dps-increase":AP ratio, but there is the factor 14 between AP and dps.

So the 28AP increase is equal to 2dps, which gives you 2/46 ~4.3% upgrade which is pretty similar to the 4.7% you stated for rogues.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the base paw dps can be left out since it stay regardless of the upgrade.

I hear the sky is falling.

In all seriousness, my guild is just about to start work on Mother Shahraz in Black Temple and has completed Hyjal. That's 5/5 in Hyjal and 6/9 down in BT. We typically have two feral druids in our raids. When they aren't off-tanking, they're DPSing. In my experience, ferals are particularly awesome for Bloodboil and RoS as offtanks. Either my guild is some exception to the rule or the future is not as bleak as you make it seem.