Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05/21/07, 6:29 PM   #1
LordVoid
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Medivh
Warriors: Regarding the new Sword Spec

Forgive me if there is already a thread, but my searches produce no results.

With the coming patch, sword spec is going to change to yellow damage. This is quite probably a buff in every conceivable way. In order to know how to model it, several questions need to be answered. Now some of this information we can hopefully get from board moderators. Some of this we can verify through testing.

Let's start with what we know:
1. SS procs are yellow attacks
2. SS procs generate rage based on attack speed.
3. SS procs have no direct effect on swing timer.
4. SS procs can be procced from other special attacks AND regular swings.

1: What are the specifics of rage generation (which is to say):
a. Is damage done a factor in how much rage is generated (IE do bigger yellow hits generate more rage)? or even more generally:
b. What is the actual formula?

2. What is the behavior of these procs as yellow attacks.
a. Are they affected by impale? (probably safe to assume "yes")
b. Are they normalized? (this is a very big deal - they should NOT be normalized)
c. Can sword spec proc itself?
d. Does sword spec have a built-in, "hidden" cooldown?

I'll think of more as my brain sifts through its contents.

Offline
Old 05/21/07, 7:04 PM   #2
Punscho
Piston Honda
 
Punscho's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Ravencrest (EU)
They are NOT affected by impale. I tested this. And they are not normalized.

Normal attacks:
3003 landed
2463 hits - min: 140, max: 197
540 crits - min: 281, max: 394

Sword procs:
131 landed
101 hits - min: 142, max 197
30 crits - min 281, max 388

Last edited by Punscho : 05/21/07 at 7:22 PM. Reason: Added data.

Offline
Old 05/21/07, 7:25 PM   #3
Shaker
AUGH CHAMPION TIME
 
Shaker's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Elune
Know: The yellow hits don't glance (big buff)

Unknown: If the proc crits, does it sock the target with deep wounds? (likely to be yes)

Offline
Old 05/21/07, 9:17 PM   #4
Raejin
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Crushridge
Normal attacks:
3003 landed

Sword procs:
131 landed
Am I reading that right? 3003/131 = 22% proc chance?

Offline
Old 05/21/07, 9:21 PM   #5
Hogey
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Proudmoore
Umm no? 131/3003 = 4% in the sample

Offline
Old 05/21/07, 10:20 PM   #6
Raejin
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Crushridge
Oh man, *facepalm*

Coffee before posting, got it.

Offline
Old 05/22/07, 4:02 AM   #7
Tasan
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Stormscale (EU)
Sword spec cannot proc of another proc, this was fixed a while back, cause it was a bit often to one-shot plate weareres with chain sword procs on procs.
It did not happen every day, but I had my share of these back with my Untamed hehe.

Sword spec does not seem to have any hidden cd either up to now.

Offline
Old 05/27/07, 9:49 AM   #8
LordVoid
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Medivh
What we know...:
1. SS procs are yellow attacks
2. SS procs generate rage based on attack speed.
3. SS procs have no direct effect on swing timer.
4. SS procs can be procced from other special attacks AND regular swings.
5. SS procs are not affected by impale
6. SS procs are not attack power normalized

...and what we don't know:
1: What are the specifics of rage generation (which is to say):
a. Is damage done a factor in how much rage is generated (IE do bigger yellow hits generate more rage)? or even more generally:
b. What is the actual formula?

2. What is the behavior of these procs as yellow attacks.
a. Can sword spec proc itself?
b. Does sword spec have a built-in, "hidden" cooldown?
c. Can a sword spec proc, activate another proc (besides flurry).
i. Deep Wounds.
ii. Windfury.
iii. Weapon procs.

Offline
Old 05/28/07, 9:56 AM   #9
LordVoid
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Medivh
My desire to discuss this has been renewed today, as I would like to discuss how I see this change to us. First of all, Blizzard claims it is an increase in net damage. Looking at the mechanics, I think we can find the ways in which this would be true. I was able to model previously the effect of sword spec on flurry, and I found that it did cause a loss of haste over time.

Ways that this is possibly a buff:
I. Sword Spec no longer causes a reset of the swing timer
A. Sword Spec no longer eats up flurry charges.

Ways that this is possibly a nerf:
II. Rage generation may possibly not scale with damage

The reason I stick on this topic is because on the little spreadsheet I've whipped up, I see sword spec as being heads and tails superior to any of the other weapon specs, hands down. I'm curious to find out if there is some factor I have not considered that would bring it back into line with the other weapon specs.

Offline
Old 06/10/07, 10:42 AM   #10
LordVoid
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Medivh
I hate replying to my own thread, but I figured it's better than creating a new one. Sword Spec has been reverted back to a white damage attack on test server this is ALMOST perfect except for one thing. Do Sword Spec procs eat flurry charges again? I am unable to test this myself for some time. If someone specced into both can please run a very long log, I would much appreciate it.

Offline
Old 06/11/07, 4:54 AM   #11
Punscho
Piston Honda
 
Punscho's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Ravencrest (EU)
The reason sword spec used to reset your swing timer was because what it really did was setting the delay for your next white swing to zero, forcing it to happen at the time of the proc (if it was on a yellow attack). That obviously ate flurry charges. If they changed it to just add another attack, like windfury, it shouldn't eat charges. But I guess it's easy to test with a 2 hander.

Offline
Old 06/15/07, 6:43 AM   #12
Zeksagmak
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Druid
 
Spinebreaker
I remember a while ago, a little before TBC came out, that sword spec was changed so that it did not proc off MS or WW anymore, but it still proc'd off hamstring/pummel. Was it changed back so that it would proc off MS or WW?

Offline
Old 06/15/07, 7:00 AM   #13
MatsT
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Zeksagmak View Post
I remember a while ago, a little before TBC came out, that sword spec was changed so that it did not proc off MS or WW anymore, but it still proc'd off hamstring/pummel. Was it changed back so that it would proc off MS or WW?
It did never change. It has always procced off MS and WW since the talent was created.

Offline
Old 06/20/07, 5:54 PM   #14
The Grog
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dragonblight
Does anybody know if sword spec will proc windfury attacks?

Offline
 

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2.1 sword spec and rogue; MH Fist/OH Sword? Lucke Class Mechanics 70 11/13/07 3:13 PM
[warrior]Prototype sword spec Mongo The Dung Heap 3 06/20/07 3:14 PM
[Rogue] Are Sword Spec & Fist Spec really the same DPS in the end? falynx The Dung Heap 1 02/19/07 6:36 PM
[Rogue] Are Sword Spec & Fist Spec really the same DPS in the end? drastic The Dung Heap 2 02/06/07 4:43 PM
[Rogue] Are Sword Spec & Fist Spec really the same DPS in the end? drastic The Dung Heap 4 02/06/07 4:18 PM