Healing Roles in End-game Raiding - Page 6

Kass · 06/20/07, 1:26 PM

You won't last 5 minutes in a 25 man raid casting Flash Heal the whole time.

Ranked down GH is the best way for a Priest to maintain himself for a long encounter. The issue I found myself struggling with was when the tank took spike damage, which spell I naturally reverted to and was that complimenting what spells the other MT healers were naturally reverting to.

15k damage on a tank does not mean I, a single Priest, have to land a 7k GH7. In fact, in a situation like that, I'm probably best suited to spam a max rank Flash Heal until he's caught up. After that point though, it's back to GH2. Healing in AQ40 is very different than healing in SSC/TK/BT/Hyjal. I'm not sure you can even compare the two. Just an aside...Heal3 and Heal4 were the best Priest spells in Pre-TBC. Flash heal has never been an effective and efficient way to heal as a Priest for the longer encounters.

On a final note, I'm not saying Flash Heal is a bad spell. It really depends on the encounter and the healing assignment. As for MT healing for a 8-10 minute fight. Flash heal is not the right choice unless it's an emergency.

For example, I used Flash Heal paired with Renew quite a bit on Supremus b/c of spot raid healing and not having the guarantee that people would be in range for the full cast of a Greater Heal. However, when I went back to healing an OT, I was back to using Greater Heals 2 and 7, and an occasional Flash Heal if I mistimed a cancel.

It sounds to me, more than your Priests using the wrong spells, it's more poor coordination among your MT healing group as to what to do in an emergency. Flash Heal 24/7 is not the answer though.

Karjia · 06/20/07, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by Lord BEEF

Yeah I think my biggest thing is I need to shift more focus on +heal in regards to gearing, gems and enchants and less on longevity, and just stock up on the new cheap mana pots. If I chain chug and just bomb regrowths and lifeblooms as soon as anyone is missing health I can compete pretty well on the meters. And you know, still keep people alive in the process as I guess that's pretty important. I'll also want to swap spellsurge for +81 healing. Spellsurge is neat but I'm often places in groups without many mana users (or we're spread out) and it's not very useful then.

(On a side note, god bless purified shadow pearls. 10g for a 9 heal/4 spirit gem? Yes please)

It's probably because you're full Resto Spec and I'm a hybrid HT spec (Or whatever the kids are calling it these days) but I've passed 1700 +heal and I'm sitting at close to 200mp5 while casting.

I've found I have a large amount of mana during fights while raid healing and MT healing and still don't have to chug mana pots. Also, due to my mana regen I've found Regrowth to be more effective to me because of the cast time and the amount healed right off the bat. Lifebloom is pretty awesome, but the global cooldown makes getting 3 stacks up while other people are getting hit a bitch. I rather just hit Regrowth and move on and not have to worry about getting 3 stacks up on them.

However, Lifebloom is great for people who are taking little enough damage not to cast more than once on, then I usually pair it with a Rejuv or just leave it as is since it's doing about 200 a tick anyways with my +heal.

Tutanka · 06/20/07, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by tiberion02

3 Restoration spec'd shamans
3 Holy Paladins
1 Resto Druid
1 Holy Priest

This is basically what we run, except that we have started going with 7 and somtimes even 6 healers.

We always bring our 3 resto shaman and at least 2 pallys, then we rotate things around for the final spots. We are working on Kael so the bosses that we have spent a lot of tiem on prior to this week (Alar, Solarian, Vash) all require a lot of AOE healing.

BTW Shaman are very underated as single target healers. Once Healing way gets stacked up our healing wave generaly lands for 4.8 to 5.3, and giving it about an 8-1 HPM. We also proc the 25% amour buff on crits which is somthing Pallys and Druids lack.

I'm a big fan of Tree Druids and I think you want at least one for most encounters, however if the Druid cant be in tree I dont see much reason to bring one over a Shaman or Pally.

You probably dont want more than one Holly priest.

galzohar · 06/20/07, 2:13 PM

While you should use a /stopcasting just like DPS casters to speed up your casts (by avoiding latency), you should never rely on it for canceling due to the buggy way in which it works (which causes it to sometimes not cancel when you hit esc or /stopcasting). Always move to cancel a spell if you want to be 100% sure it's canceled - and it's just as fast as /stopcasting - but it always works. Jumping is indeed stupid though as it wastes a lot of time, while the moving animation ends as soon as you let go off the move key.

Larkin · 06/20/07, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kass

You won't last 5 minutes in a 25 man raid casting Flash Heal the whole time.

I perhaps didn't make my point clearly enough - I understand the downranked GHeal mechanics and numbers, I was pointing out another, very mana-intensive, but manageable style of MT healing, if you are short pallies, or want to use a rotation.

Our priests implemented this the other night on Morogrim effectively - it's not a hypothetical, this-worked-on-the-twin-emps-will-it-work-here thing - our priests DID IT, it DID WORK, they DIDN'T go OOM and Morogrim took significantly longer than 8-10 minutes, let alone 5 min.

I will agree our MT-healing is an issue in coordinating right now, due to the number of dps we want in - I have come to the interim conclusion that the raw heal output of FH is just so much greater than FoL that if you are short pallies they need to be raid healing, and the priests need to heal the MT.

I do love that there are so many different ways of doing things - the biggest problem I am having as a raid leader is integrating the new druid and shaman abilities effectively into our strats, as those classes have changed so drastically in healing (or weren't even there) since the pre-BC patch and BC.

EDIT: Please also note that we are an Alliance guild on a transfer server - we are maybe 2nd in progression on our server, decent but nothing outstanding. We have a VERY small pool of players to recruit from, and are carrying two resto shaman (1 of those is part-time) and resto druids are pretty much extinct on our server post-BC - we have, luckily, two for every raid, many guilds don't. So making do with what we have is key - all the players are good, some are having to adjust their styles.

Kass · 06/20/07, 2:54 PM

Originally Posted by Larkin

I perhaps didn't make my point clearly enough - I understand the downranked GHeal mechanics and numbers, I was pointing out another, very mana-intensive, but manageable style of MT healing, if you are short pallies, or want to use a rotation.

Our priests implemented this the other night on Morogrim effectively - it's not a hypothetical, this-worked-on-the-twin-emps-will-it-work-here thing - our priests DID IT, it DID WORK, they DIDN'T go OOM and Morogrim took significantly longer than 8-10 minutes, let alone 5 min.

I will agree our MT-healing is an issue in coordinating right now, due to the number of dps we want in - I have come to the interim conclusion that the raw heal output of FH is just so much greater than FoL that if you are short pallies they need to be raid healing, and the priests need to heal the MT.

I do love that there are so many different ways of doing things - the biggest problem I am having as a raid leader is integrating the new druid and shaman abilities effectively into our strats, as those classes have changed so drastically in healing (or weren't even there) since the pre-BC patch and BC.

EDIT: Please also note that we are an Alliance guild on a transfer server - we are maybe 2nd in progression on our server, decent but nothing outstanding. We have a VERY small pool of players to recruit from, and are carrying two resto shaman (1 of those is part-time) and resto druids are pretty much extinct on our server post-BC - we have, luckily, two for every raid, many guilds don't. So making do with what we have is key - all the players are good, some are having to adjust their styles.

http://www.juggernautguild.com/wws/2...946/index.html
A WWS where we had only one Paladin (in charge of healing the MT and tanking murlocs when those spawned).

Aquan(Priest) and Kapetal(Shaman) were in charge of Watery Graves.
Ruhntar(Druid) was in charge of the raid.
Atsugo (Druid), Paragon(Paladin), Kassaria(Priest), Galdar(Shaman), Wargrim(Shaman) were in charge of MT.

Atsugo helped on raid here or there if needed. Kassaria helped healing Paragon during Murlocks.

In this setup, you have one Paladin casting FOL/HL on the MT. The Druid is keeping up Lifebloom and Rejuv. You've got one Swiftmend (Druid) and two Nature's Switfness (Shaman), as emergency heals from healers already focused on the MT. The Shaman (who are fantastic single target healers) are able to keep up Ancestral Fortitude to help with Armor. Finally you have Priest HOT as well as a quick heal or shield in an emergency, but who can basically chain cast/cancel forever with GH2.

I don't disagree that there are many ways to do things. What I do disagree with is demanding that your Priests use a mana inefficient spell and claiming that constantly casting it is the best way to counter spike damage. Good tanking, damage mitigation (through HOTS, Armor Buffs, etc), healing instincts, overall coordination and experience are the best solution for spike damage. IMO Flash Heal is a temporary solution - a bandaid...

A bit of a background as to what you usually run with in terms of healers on a typical night might have been useful. Nevertheless, I'll stand by my point that a Priest is not a Paladin, and should, if at all possible, not be utilized in that way.

EDIT: We probably overkill the healing assignments on our MT (as you'll see in overhealing %), however, it makes up for it when two of your MT healers happened to get graved at the same time. There may be 5 healers assigned to the MT, but at times as few as 3 could be healing him.

subscience · 06/20/07, 3:31 PM

From personal experience -
Shaman: Very efficient single-target healing with Healing Way. Amazing raid healing (particularly melee or clumped groups) with Chain Healing. [As a note, it is always a good idea to have players clump up when appropriate to maximize CHs]
Druids: Amazing raid healing capabilities with Tree of Life. Also helps stabilize tank HP with strong HoTs.
Priests: They have tools for nearly every situation. Very flexible IMO, but usually best for MT healing due to very high regen and slow casts.
Paladins: Absurd single-target heal mana efficiency. Judgement of Light provides all melee with a noticeable amount of healing.

MT healing: Shamans (and at least 1 with Healing Way), Priests, Paladins. Shamans + Priests have Inspiration/Ancestral Healing (+15% armor) and Paladins get crazy efficiency with Blessing of Light.
Raid healing: Shamans, Druids. Chain Heal clumped groups and HoTs for everything else. The biggest thing here is trusting your Druids and their HoTs and not healing over them. Strong communication from healers prevents a LOT of unnecessary overhealing, especially in terms of raid-wide damage.

Tutanka · 06/20/07, 3:35 PM

Originally Posted by Larkin

I perhaps didn't make my point clearly enough - I understand the downranked GHeal mechanics and numbers, I was pointing out another, very mana-intensive, but manageable style of MT healing, if you are short pallies, or want to use a rotation.

Our priests implemented this the other night on Morogrim effectively - it's not a hypothetical, this-worked-on-the-twin-emps-will-it-work-here thing - our priests DID IT, it DID WORK, they DIDN'T go OOM and Morogrim took significantly longer than 8-10 minutes, let alone 5 min.

I will agree our MT-healing is an issue in coordinating right now, due to the number of dps we want in - I have come to the interim conclusion that the raw heal output of FH is just so much greater than FoL that if you are short pallies they need to be raid healing, and the priests need to heal the MT.

I do love that there are so many different ways of doing things - the biggest problem I am having as a raid leader is integrating the new druid and shaman abilities effectively into our strats, as those classes have changed so drastically in healing (or weren't even there) since the pre-BC patch and BC.

EDIT: Please also note that we are an Alliance guild on a transfer server - we are maybe 2nd in progression on our server, decent but nothing outstanding. We have a VERY small pool of players to recruit from, and are carrying two resto shaman (1 of those is part-time) and resto druids are pretty much extinct on our server post-BC - we have, luckily, two for every raid, many guilds don't. So making do with what we have is key - all the players are good, some are having to adjust their styles.

I see almost no value in Priests using Flash heals to keep up a main tank.

This is actually about the worst possible healing strat I can think of for MT healing TBH.

If you really want a clean, efficient MT healing stratigy that makes use of your Priest not your Pallys, work your Druid into the mix and forget all of this downranking stuff.

Have your Druid Keep up 3x Lifebloom + Rejuve at all times on the MT. Have 2x Priest precast and cacel their largest rank of G-heal and keep up renew, and only resolve when the Tank is below 2k health.

The lifeblooms will be ticking for 800 per second, and the Rejuve will be 700+ every tick throw in the 2x renew from the priets and the HOT's will keep the tank topped up in most cases.

Further I really dont see why you wouldnt use Pallys in place of Priests here.

Also moving the Pallys to raid healing is also a bad call. Your Shaman will Trounce your Pallys in HSP using chain heal, and your Druids will trounce them in efficiency using HOT's.

A well geared shamans chain heal is around 2800-1400-700, with crits we are talking about over 5.5k healing, on a 2.5 second cast, for under 600 mana. Further to that, the second and 3rd bounces auto target players who are low in health. It's basically easymode effective healing and there is no way a pally can come close to matching it. I would say that 2 shaman can easily outperform 3 FOL spamming pallys on pure raid healing.

Amera · 06/22/07, 7:21 PM

Also moving the Pallys to raid healing is also a bad call. Your Shaman will Trounce your Pallys in HSP using chain heal, and your Druids will trounce them in efficiency using HOT's.

A well geared shamans chain heal is around 2800-1400-700, with crits we are talking about over 5.5k healing, on a 2.5 second cast, for under 600 mana. Further to that, the second and 3rd bounces auto target players who are low in health. It's basically easymode effective healing and there is no way a pally can come close to matching it. I would say that 2 shaman can easily outperform 3 FOL spamming pallys on pure raid healing.

On our void reaver this week, stupidity managed to get the melee orbed at 90%, killing 4 of us and the other chain healer. In what was the worst attempt I've ever seen we managed to kill him during enrage with 6 people alive and no tanks, but our one CH shaman (who pulled agro at 20% and died, teehee) had something like 650k healing done with chain heal.

There's no comparison to shaman raid healing. It's somewhat funny, but really the "one-button" setup really dominates in a way, shaman mashing chain heal on the raid, paladins mashing flash of light on the tanks. The healers with a lot more "nuance" like priests and druids have to have more finesse with their healing.