Tiandihui

I think your math is a bit off. 600 rejuv ticks would be 200 hps, or 1000 hps across 5 targets. That would be 500 threat per second, or 400 threat per second with subtlety. That would be 280 threat per second with subtlety and salvation. This of course assumes one mob; the more mobs that have you on their threat list, the more that 280 tps is divided amongst them.

My understanding is that healing done does not add threat to you until you are in combat. You are not in combat until you actively cast something, or on mobs that have combat pulses.

 

Apate

I tried to do some testing on this last weekend, but it didn't work out too well. For one, I ran short on time (because I nearly forgot).

Anecdotally, though, if took a few swings at a mob, say 800ish damage, then let the mob beat on me. Then I let the mob beat on me, and when sufficiently low, I would cast lifebloom. It took multiple lifeblooms (at least 2x 1-stack + end heal, 3-stack + heal) to pull aggro within melee range. It is just an anecdote, and someone else should test it.

I was able to pull aggro with a lifebloom when I would body pull a mob.

See you, auntie.

 

Mækk

Heals the target for 273 over 7 sec. When Lifebloom completes its duration or is dispelled, the target instantly heals themself for 600.

You'll see the same thing in the combatlog, your lifebloom heals you for xxx.
It's the same thing with earthshield and prayer of mending. Atleast I think that's how it works.

 

TheOnly

Yeah, SO?

I tested it myself a while back. The ticks, and the bloom both count for aggro on the healer.

(warlock uses low rank SB to build ~200 aggro on a mob outside shatt, was at 50% hp on pull. Lifebloom cast on warlock after pull. the ticks do not draw aggro as they are not big enough to overcome the threat, the bloom goes off and the mob runs at druid).

Test it yourself, and if you find out differently let us know. I tested in patch 2.0 so who knows, maybe 2.1 changed something.

 

◊ Lrigatonmai

While I realize it doesn't constitute an actual test, I do know Magtheridon has come straight for me as soon as he breaks without fail every time. I'm usually saved as the tank gets off his shield bash or the misdirect hits, but I'm definitely generating more threat than the other healers and I assume it's because I'm using lifebloom VERY liberally (maintaining a 3 stack on the tank + hitting DPS that took infernal damage).

 

kurome

I thought this matter was common knowledge, but apparently not.

I have used a non-pre-engage 1 cast LB on tanks in multiple mob situations before and after 2.1 and witnessed the mobs first to come after me for the ticks and heading to the tank at the bloom. I have noticed this to be a good aggro reducer and a reminder for the tanks to TC the mobs, that is why I have used it a lot.

Would like to see some proof from the aggro on blooming, since it would seem you have the opposite proven in some way. Otherwise this seems either you or me are avoiding the game mechanics that are set to be.

Whilst in mid fight at Maggy you would have some other hots aswell or maybe a 2 or 3 stack of LB, which would generate more threat than the actual blooming, ofc he funs towards you. LB can be used like mentioned as a starting aggro reducer, mid-fight you should just concentrate on healing, since all the threat managing should elsewhere and not your problem at all.

 

◊ Lrigatonmai

-People in this thread are saying the bloom counts as my threat, not the tanks.
-Even if it was threat for the tank, it'd be limited by possible over heal.
-I don't understand how lifebloom is going to be an aggro reducer if either 1 or 2 are true

We've just started getting a paladin to BoP me as mag pops, because I'll almost always be on top of the threat just from the HoT's that are out.

 

kurome

okies, seems like I have made a really useless post there, just skip it. And let's just all get Omen threatmeter on the way.

Good one for a first post.

 

◊ castille

I think one thing people aren't taking into account here is time dilation of lifebloom vs that of other HoTs, and how lifebloom works.

Renew / Rejuv / Regrowth tick every 3 seconds. Lifebloom ticks every second. That's a significant amount of healing threat, especially if you're throwing them around all over the place, in a very short amount of time. In other words, while lifebloom's big heal is attributed to the target, the amount of threat you are developing quickly outstrips any form of threat generation because there is no luck involved. Unlike other HoTs, where there's a distance between the ticks, there is no space where lifebloom isn't attributing some amount of threat before the big heal. And, I have seen lifebloom ticking in a 3-stack for around the same amount as most renews. Tag that in with other HoTs that tree form druids are liable to toss around, and their healing threat becomes insane because of the staggering of ticks going around across the entirety of the raid.

 

◊ Lrigatonmai

Oh, I'm almost 100% certain you're correct. Also, since lifebloom tics every second it's more likely to produce actual healing instead of over heal. Thus, it produces more threat.

Knowns:

-Healing produces threat attributed to the healer
-Threat is divided among active targets
-Over heal produces no threat

The new lifebloom means if I'm maintaining a 3 stack on my tank, and have a few other HoT's out I'm potentially producing a few thousand healing any given second. It's really basic stuff but I'm thinking people are forgetting just how much actual healing you're pumping out via those HoT's. Especially if you're spreading them around. There aren't any magic threat modifiers at work that I'm aware of, it's a known and it's controlled. Unless someone cares to run some tests to prove that the bloom is giving my heal targets threat then I'd say it's simply less over heal + more instant healing = more instant threat.

 

levk

What Kretschmer said, if you're an HT healer you tend to drop very large heals early into a pull which leads you to pulling agro. I'm a paladin and I pull healing agro every other arcane protector after the first hit if we don't have a shield slam tank.

 

Apate

This is an important point to make, I agree. Take a druid and another character, find a mob that has a sufficient DPS output, do a little damage to the mob and see how much healing using only lifebloom it takes to pull threat.

I'd be happy to see Heal/2 attributed to the druid for the per second ticking, and I'd be happy to see heal/2 to the recipient of the bloom. My testing was very poor and rushed (druid, warrior, and the ogres north of Shat), but it didn't indicate this. Whiteknight's testing in another thread didn't either.

See you, auntie.

 

TheOnly

As I stated above, I've tested this. I've tested it twice. The bloom causes healer aggro just like any other heal.

You can't use anecdotal "I pulled aggro then the bloom went off and it went back" because maybe the tank hit the target or something. You have to use a controlled test.

The easiest way is to have the "other" character have half health and pull a very wimpy mob. Then either:

have the other do threat that is greater than the tick threat (heal / 2 of ticks) and less than the tick threat + bloom --

OR

have the full heal go off and see how much threat it takes to pull it off the healer. For a druid with +0 healing, it is even easier:

With +0 healing, the bloom is significantly larger than all the prior ticks combined. If the "bloom affects target not healer aggro" theory is right then:


*Player with half health body pulls
*Druid with +0 heal gear on casts lifebloom
*tick 1 causes mob to go to druid
*bloom causes mob to go back to target


If all threat is attributable to the druid, the last bit doesn't happen.

What actually does happen? The last bit above doesn't happen.

 

kurome

Yes, after making stupid postings here, I tested it just as you described. Threat applies to the target on KTM, but nothing changes in the game itself; mob keeps hitting you.

This just makes KTM abit harder to look at and healing meters even more useless. The amount of aggro that KTM shows for the tank has the LB in it, so with many druids stacking LB on an OT for example... Well, theoretically it might result in a confusing situation to DPS, but highly unlikely. Now the question about other classes; Prayer of Mending and Earth shield? Do they apply threat to whom?

 

◊ Lrigatonmai

In most situations I don't let my 3 stack lifebloom expire if I'm tank healing. Rebuilding the stack is fairly inefficient once you have it up there, and it's even worse if you trinketed it. I say that to say this, it really shouldn't matter that much. Also, once a DPS is within the ~1k threat that accidentally letting a bloom go off would register for the tank in KTM they should already be slowing down their threat anyway.

 

Apate

Right, I don't think it goes to the recipient of the bloom. I want to know how much threat it causes. Do your tests show that it causes Heal/2 hate?

See you, auntie.

 

XP-Dolphin

Will need to do some more testing, but it appears the ending heal on lifebloom is no agro to anyone. But I need to setup some much better controlled tests of this.

 

CasT

It's is nice to hear that some people actually want to look into this instead of just passing on second hand facts.

Kudos

Do not matter how much you play, you will never get the carrot.

 

◊ Lrigatonmai

There was some discussion about this in the Omen thread:

http://elitistjerks.com/showpost.php...&postcount=195
http://elitistjerks.com/showpost.php...&postcount=202
http://elitistjerks.com/showpost.php...&postcount=211