Saethar

I did some searches and couldn't find an answer to this question. If a thread exists on the subject, please delete/lock as appropriate.

My question is how the Shaman's Tranquil Air totem affects DOTs. Mainly, is the threat reduction applied per tick, or globally upon spellcast.

To clarify...

If I'm in range of Tranquil Air at the moment I cast Corruption, and then move out of range, assuming 400 damage per tick:

- Will my Corruption cause full threat [in this case, 6 * 400 = 2400] (Tranquil Air threat reduction applied per tick. Since I'm out of range of the totem after the initial cast, the threat reduction doesn't apply)

- Will Corruption instead benefit from Tranquil Air [2400 * 0.8 = 1920] (In this case, the threat reduction would benefit the spell as long as it's cast while in range of the totem, regardless of range afterwards)

 

Django

As threat is assigned on the time the damage/heal occurs and is then multiplied by all threat-modifiers active for this player (BoW, Talents, Trinkets, Enchant, passive reduction & of course Tranquil Air)it should be the first case.
It would be far too complex for the game to save a "threat-modifier-when-casted-state" for each and every Over-Time-Spell.

If you change just 4 letters in the word 'love' you get 'beer'.
Fascinating, isn't it?

 

• frmorrison

DoTs get their +damage calcuation and threat calculation at time of spell cast.

Otherwise, it would be unneeded extra load on the servers doing all those calcuations.

 

Saethar

Both answers here are conflicting.

Has anyone done or have access to tests on this matter?

 

Kiln

Dots absolutely get +damage applied at time of cast. I have tested this several times with various classes, totems, trinkets.

The most likely behavoir is that the threat calculation of dots are treated exactly the same as straight dps. There is a possibility that threat calculation is periodic rather than instant with damage. This would explain some of my observed threat mechanic differences when running KTM with a pet.

 

TheOnly

The answer as far as I know is unknown. In patches past (oh, 9 months ago?) DoT damage was calculated based on the +damage of the caster at the time of the tick. You could dot up an opponent, THEN click a trinket, and watch the numbers go up.

I do not know if threat works based on damage * caster's current threat multiplier or
damage * threat multiplier at time of cast.

Both would create the same # of calculations on the server, so arguments around that theme are useless.

Has someone tested it?

This also affects bear druids who moonfire pull and shift to bear ... is the moonfire ticks after that multiplied by the bear threat factor?

 

Lukaichi

What happen if you die ? Your DoT tick for base damage ?

I wonder what happen with HoT when the healer die.

I can tell that If i change my gear while a Streaming totem is down, the heal number change. Never tried with Earth Shield but I'll give it a shot.

 

Zaq

There was some change, long ago now, to dots (or maybe all spells?) being adjusted to count the dmg/healing at the compeletion of the spell cast. Imp SB and other debuffs may alter this, but poping a trinket after you've already landed a dot won't increase the tic damage. (Unless I'm retarded, always a possiblity).

"I have nothing personally invested in my own opinions. I'm just, like, inviting you to join me on the bandwagon of my own uncertainty." -Taylor Mali

 

Zyrxil

I never realized this (the damage, not the threat) was in question. Afaik, self-buffs that affect DoTs are taken into account at the beginning of casts, DoT damage will not go down if a self-buff wears off while it's ticking. For debuffs on the target though, DoT damage will adjust while it's ticking for what gets put on or drops off.

E.g.- If I use a +AP trinket, and apply Rupture, it will not tick for less if the +AP wears off in the middle, but it will tick for more if a Druid applies Mangle even after the Rupture has already started ticking.

 

• Latito

As a general rule, DoT tick modifiers which are player-side are calculated when the effect is cast and never again. Modifiers which are mob-side are calculated per-tick. Thus, if you trinket and dot, the +spell damage or +ap from the trinket counts for the duration of the dot, regardless if the effect wears off while the dot is still ticking. Boss debuffs (or buffs) however are calculated per-tick. So if Misery or Mangle are applied mid-tick, the DoT will increase.

Figure out where thread comes in and you'll likely have an answer to your question.

 

TheOnly

Before the change last year, if you died DoTs ticked for base damage. And heals ticked for base heal.

Now, they tick the same regardless (basicaly, the +heal or + dam value associated with it is associated with the debuff, not the player).

it is NOT known as far as I know (validated with a test) to be the same for aggro. It might be, it might not be. They moved the +damage in the calculation from a member variable of the character, to that of the debuff. They did not have to necessarily also change aggro to be the same.

In other words, threat may or may not be analagous to damage in this case. It must be proven.

 

Darkmantle

Writing this post will take more time than it took to test.

Using Fetish of the Sand Reaver, coa, no fel armor, a timber wolf outisde shat and a shadow priest with no -threat healing talents I got:
1st test
Activated fetish
Waited 18 seconds
Cast Coa on timber wolf and let it tick full duration for 2155 damage
Priest then used lowest rank heal of about 75 heal each to heal me until she pulled agro
Result 5400 approx healing or 2700 threat was needed to pull agro(she was at range) indicating that having the -threat at the start of the cast made no difference to the threat of the spell
2nd test
Cast Coa
Waited 3 seconds
Activated Fetish
Waited for full duration of damage
Priest then used lowest rank heal of about 75 heal each to heal til she pulled agro
Result 3000 approx healing or 1500 threat was required to pull agro(she was at range) indicating that activating fetish after the spell had been cast decreased the threat of the spell.

KTM correctly predicted all of this in its threat values.

Conclusion:Fetish does its -threat when the damage is done not on cast. I see no reason this would be different for any other -threat buff but I can't be absolutely certain.

It has been known for a long time that +dmg is applied at cast for dots. Mob debuffs change dynamically and this was easily tested by doing corruption waiting for a tick then casting cos and seeing the change.( I just tested it then, also tested applying and removing the cos and seeing corruption go higher and then back down again)

 

Saethar

Thanks for taking the time to test it out and post about it here.

 

Ichal

Unless it changed *very* recently, you can still trinket up Consecration after casting it.

With a Zandalarian Hero Charm you could use Consecration, pop ZHC[1], cast some spells, and see the damage go down on the Consecration as you used the charges.

But I don't know of any other spell behaving like that.



[1]The order of consecration-ZHC didn't matter, except you saved a ZHC charge if you consecrated first.