Not another Ignites are rolling thread!, but I do not understand what is going on with ignites now! Hopefully somebody can clarify.

This is a quick test on Dr. Boom with only spamming Fireball. No scorch debuff up, or cast. 7 Crits in a row:

04:13'04.484 Cryic's Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 3103 Fire damage
04:13'06.781 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 621 Fire damage '''' * * 3103 x .2 = 620.5
04:13'07.765 Cryic's Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 2922 Fire damage
04:13'09.843 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 894 Fire damage ''''' * * 2922*.2 = 584 + 620.5 = 1,204 (wtf)
04:13'11.375 Cryic's Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 3120 Fire damage
04:13'13.578 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 1071 Fire damage ''''' * * 624 + 584 = 1208
04:13'14.656 Cryic's Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 2985 Fire damage
04:13'16.968 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 1133 Fire damage ''''' * * 597 + 624 = 1221
04:13'17.828 Cryic's Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 2913 Fire damage
04:13'19.984 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 1149 Fire damage ''''' * * 582 + 597 = 1179
04:13'21.125 Cryic's Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 2918 Fire damage
04:13'23.515 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 1158 Fire damage ''''' * * 583 + 582 = 1165
04:13'24.609 Cryic's Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 3104 Fire damage
04:13'26.687 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 1200 Fire damage ''''' * * 620 + 583 = 1203
04:13'28.000 Cryic's Fireball hits Dr. Boom for 2122 Fire damage
04:13'28.703 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 1200 Fire damage '''''' * * 620 + 583 = 1203
04:13'31.281 Cryic's Fireball hits Dr. Boom for 2087 Fire damage
04:13'34.453 Cryic's Fireball hits Dr. Boom for 2075 Fire damage


Before the above segment, normaly fireballs with no crits. I really do not understand the second ignite tick, where did 894 come from??

A link to the actual log file segment: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...d21l5ie1&bl=42

If you crit within .1 seconds of an ignite tick, there's a high chance it acts like the ignite didn't happen

3103 * 0.2 = 620.5 as you calculated.

We still have 620.5 left in ignite. New crit arrives, 2922, increasing the ignite stack to 620.5 + 2922 * 0.4 = 1789.3

Half of that number burns on next tick. Thus 894.65 should be expected. Got 894, so it's the right number.

"Rule for Ignite:"

1) Any given second to last Ignite tick is half of the remaining Ignite amount.
2) If new crit arrives before the last tick, new Ignite is summed to the remaining Ignite.
3) If there is no new fire crit between Ignite ticks, rest of the ignite burns away.

Thus, ignites "roll", but you don't gain anything from it, you are just actually delaying the damage you crit earlier.

As further reassurance, note that the sum of your ignite damage (8426) is exactly 40% of the sum of your crit fireball damage (21065).

Rolling ignites were intentionally removed / nurfed and won't be coming back.

What they did this patch was fix the most glaring bugs with ignite where back to back crits would cause ignite damage to be entirely lost.

ie. The "fireball crits for 3k, molten armor crits for 120, ignite ticks for 24" situation.

There were some reports on the test server of situation where more than 40% damage was done with strings of crits, it's possible they didn't fix all of those bugs. Most of the time though you will now get your 40% damage bonus no matter what mix of crits you toss at a mob, with the 'delay' mechanic though explained above.

Basically, if you crit between ticks of an ignite, the new damage will be added to what remains and half the new value applied next tick. If you crit before an existing ignite ticks for the first time, the damage gets added, but the ignite dot timer gets reset and won't tick until 2 sec after you stop critting.

ie.

scorch crit 1500 (ignite stack 600)
scorch crit 1500 (ignite stack 1200)
scorch crit 1500 (ignite stack 1800)
scorch hit 1k
ignite tick 900
ignite tick 900

Hmm, just wondering how Ignite works with something like Magtheridon's Banish phase.

Say you crit for 3k (1500 doubled becasue of banish) with a scorch, you should get 40% bonus damage = 1200, split over 2 parts = 600 per tick. The banish makes him take double damage, so does he take 1200 per tick, or 600 per tick?

Don't think so, because in 2.0 they specifically removed ignite "double dipping", when ignite DoT was affected by CoE/imp. scorch in addition of said effect on original fire spell.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm not that familiar with the way mage dps works as fire.

I belive it was stated above that you don't actually gain any damage from having rolling ignites, just delays the time that the damage is done over.

So there is no real benefit in getting large ignite ticks? Or trying to keep ignite up?

I was under the influence that after a mage crits with a fireball that they will either scorch or fireblast in hopes of getting a crit to lengthen the time of the ignite.

I'm an amateur when it comes to mage dps, so please enlighten me.

This is what we used to do, untill blizzard changed it.
There's no reason to keep ignite up in TBC.

Sorry, I don't mean to de-rail the thread, another question regarding mage damage.

So during a normal mage damage cycle, the only occasion they will use scorch is to keep fire vunerability up, and fire blast if they have the mana to do so?

I believe a mage from my guild told me that the normal cycle is something like 6 x Fireball, Scorch repeat?

Also, should I expect all of my mages to be doing fairly similiar damage if they are within ~50 spell damage of each other, or are there other variables that may differentiate their damage, like style of play our anything, or is it just simply, spam fireball?

I mean, if the art of ignites no longer applies, mage damage seems fairly simplistic and purely based around gear for the most part.

As the above poster indicated, if you crit while an Ignite is up, it creates a new Ignite that's set to do (40% of crit damage) + (remaining old ignite damage) over 4 seconds (in two ticks). This is the only way to implement it if you have only one Ignite debuff (unless you allow it to roll).