[Mage]: Ignites working correctly? - Page 2

Northerner · 05/25/07, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by tedv

It's based more around arcane blast cycles actually, since arcane blast is either your best DPM or DPS spell (depending on the debuff stack). It's no more or less gear based than any other class, which is to say that gear matters a great deal.

It is a derail but I'll counter this opinion anyhow. AB cycles are only a DPM or DPS increase if you are specced for using them and for most mages speccing for their use is an overall DPS downgrade. For myself, 10/48/3 (and hence scorchX1, fireballX8) is more damage delivered and more dps in any raid that we are doing.

The primary use for AB cycles is actually the reduced threat componant, they are notoriously latency-sensitive and never an overall damage increase unless you run without a shadow priest. Even then they usually fail at overall damage delivered due to the spec itself being inefficient.

Leto · 05/25/07, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by tedv

It's based more around arcane blast cycles actually, since arcane blast is either your best DPM or DPS spell (depending on the debuff stack). It's no more or less gear based than any other class, which is to say that gear matters a great deal.

*IF* you are a deep arcane spec. For a deep fire spec, fireball will do more dps than your arcane blast.

To Drakul, +dmg isn't the only stat you should be worried about... +hit and crit are also very important. Latency might be one thing to look into too if one of your mages is underperforming... using stopcasting can help a great deal in that situation.

Cryic · 05/25/07, 2:22 PM

It's already been explained above, just thought I would toss out this recent test (before the above test actually) which shows how as many as 4 crits during scorch spam can be cast before the ignite ticks, yet never losing the damage as pre 2.1:

03:42'11.421 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 993 Fire damage
03:42'13.328 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 1008 Fire damage
03:42'14.906 Cryic's Scorch crits Dr. Boom for 1466 Fire damage (save 293 for future ignite)
03:42'16.703 Cryic's Scorch crits Dr. Boom for 1483 Fire damage (save 296 for future ignite)
03:42'18.656 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 984 Fire damage
03:42'18.859 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 590 Fire damage **293+296 = 589
03:42'20.593 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 994 Fire damage
03:42'20.859 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 590 Fire damage (same, ignite fades)
03:42'22.390 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 1030 Fire damage
03:42'24.453 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 984 Fire damage
03:42'26.265 Cryic's Scorch crits Dr. Boom for 1499 Fire damage (save 299.)
03:42'27.921 Cryic's Scorch crits Dr. Boom for 1554 Fire damage (save 310. )
03:42'29.546 Cryic's Scorch crits Dr. Boom for 1561 Fire damage (save 312)
03:42'31.671 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 975 Fire damage
03:42'31.890 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 923 Fire damage (299+310+312 = 921ish)
03:42'33.218 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 999 Fire damage
03:42'33.968 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 923 Fire damage
03:42'35.281 Cryic's Scorch crits Dr. Boom for 1454 Fire damage
03:42'36.656 Cryic's Scorch crits Dr. Boom for 1492 Fire damage
03:42'38.781 Cryic's Scorch hits Dr. Boom for 985 Fire damage
03:42'39.093 Cryic's Ignite dots Dr. Boom for 590 Fire damage

Brudarek · 05/26/07, 5:00 AM

Originally Posted by Drakul

So during a normal mage damage cycle, the only occasion they will use scorch is to keep fire vunerability up, and fire blast if they have the mana to do so?

Yep.

Northerner · 05/26/07, 5:28 AM

Even ignoring mana constraints, fireblast is of questionable value at a certain point in gear. It shined in the era of rolling ignites if used reactively but at this point (raid buffed) it really is only a finisher on trash/spawns or while repositioning. I certainly don't use it as part of my standing-still rotation as it is a dpm loss and also a dps decrease.

Axira · 05/26/07, 6:44 AM

Originally Posted by Drakul

Also, should I expect all of my mages to be doing fairly similiar damage if they are within ~50 spell damage of each other, or are there other variables that may differentiate their damage, like style of play our anything, or is it just simply, spam fireball?

I mean, if the art of ignites no longer applies, mage damage seems fairly simplistic and purely based around gear for the most part.

In my eyes mage DPS is the most luckbased DPS in the game.

Yup, all we usually do is Fireball as much as we can, and a scorch right in time to keep the fire vulnerabilty up. Keeping the amount of times you scorch at minimum increases your DPS.

However, besides just fireball and scorch spamming the luck factor comes in.
Some mages can get very lucky during a fight and get alot more crits then the other mages (causing em to be op top of the DPS meters if they have the same gear.) Some mages can get very unlucky during a fight and get alot more resists then the other mages (causing em to be op the bottom of the mage DPS meters.)

Offcourse gear like +%crit and +%hit helps, but it's still luckbased how much crits or hits you effectively will get. In theory even a person with 99% critchance and 99% hitchance could get 5 resists in a row followed by 5 normal hits (although the chance is low, the chance exists).

Following above "philosophy" for me +spelldamage seems like the most important stat for a mage... +hit and +crit are just there to make you a bit more "lucky" with crits or resists. But still there's nothing that will guarantee you to get less resists then some other mage just because you have alot more hit% chance. It's still luck based wether you'll get resists or crits.. .

Searix · 05/27/07, 9:08 AM

As a re-iteration of my earlier point.

2.1 Ignites can and do roll for EXTRA DAMAGE in specific cases (By critting within .1 seconds of ignite tick), EX: http://aycu22.webshots.com/image/172...0171452_rs.jpg

Expected Ignite damage: (1656 + 1640 + 1624 + 1603 + 1587 + 1617) *.4 = 3890.8
Real Ignite damage: 331 + 494 + 892 + 1209 + 1209 + 928 + 928 = 5991

Difference: 2100 damage bonus

Explanation: My last 2 scorch crits popped up within the same .1 second as the ignite tick, making the game "ignore" the ignite damage it did, and continue on as if it didn't happen. Specifically in this example the 1587 scorch crit the same second the 892 ignite tick did, and the same second the second 1209 crit did (the extra ignite damage was sprinkled over those 2 928 ignite ticks, which shouldn't have happened with a 1617 scorch). 1209 + 892 = 2100(1) damage bonus

Feel free to test it yourselves, all you have to do is crit right when an ignite tick pops up.