Serf

Heh, I never used the macro at first, but then i started to use it because I'd either take too long, or start casting again too fast, so that i'd end up clipping the autoshot. I've never been able to find a cast timer that actually works for me, either; either the thing just doesn't seem to want to work, or it doesn't work properly, saying a shot is ready before it is, or isn't ready when it is, that sort of thing. >.<

As for it looking and feeling just about right; Currently with my castsequence macro and hand weaving it does feel pretty smooth, to me.

@ Rivkah: If i was part of progression content, I would chug pots or whatever I need to do to not be a liability to the raid. Currently however I've just proceeded through territory where I'm basically just another DPS/utility add in the group. I've currently respecced to remove efficiency and a point of TotH to get down to Readiness, and I hope that things end up working well with this setup, though i'm not entirely sure having rapid Fire on a 3 minute CD instead of a 4 minute which breaks it from the BF/trinket CD rotation is a good thing.

As for Kill Command, yes, it's a bit of damage off the GCD, but at 75 mana, it's almost the cost of a Steady Shot, and worth at least 20x less. 220-ish damage is what a test sample of 50 KCs gave, with only a single being a crit, doing about 500 damage. The mana cost of KC isn't worth the damage it does when i can spend the short time waiting on the GCD to cast a shot that uses a little more mana and does far more damage on average.

As for being well over the hit cap- yeah, I know. no luck on the cloak of fiends so far, and then there's also the hit from the Arcanite Steam-Pistol that I hope to be dropping when I upgrade to Legionkiller. Those two upgrades would bring me to exactly 96 hit, just over the cap, where I'm aiming for.

Edit: Thank you for the info regarding my owl's screech vs. Ravager. I already knew Ravager with Gore was the top DPS (until WotLK) bt I was never aware of any AP debuff cap. How was that found out?

 

PreTXT

I just couldn't help it ... Serf, really, so far you've been given excellent advices on how to improve your DPS, to which you related contra-arguments that would make any serious raiding guild to think twice before taking you on-board.

Excellence comes at a hefty price, and for a SV hunter that's more than true, since we have to tune our gear & playstyle to the maximum in order to achieve top-results. If you're not prepared to go the extra mile and do absolutely everything to improve your DPS then you'll remain in the "average" class of players.

To give you an example: what we're you doing with using AotV when you have shaman & retri pala in raid is just unimaginable. I raided for so many times with no mana support except Fel Mana potions and I was using [Dark Rune] just to earn the extra few hundreds of mana that were allowing to finish a fight with AotH up all the time and benefit from the extra AP (and I had the classic 0/20/41 build). Now I have a shaman and a retri pala in raid and chain-chugging Fel Mana has been replaced by chain-chugging Haste potions, which are even more expensive. I'm not even using mana oils anymore and I use [Adamantite Sharpening Stone] which is still working for us (thank God for this bug!).

And this kind of effort is done by every other serious raiding SV hunter who wants to achieve top results ... so in that respect, comments like "mana cost of KC isn't worth the damage" are really misplaced. I don't want to sound harsh since we are all here to learn but you need to be more open-minded.

My advice would be to give it a shot during one of the raids and apply all the advices with no mana usage consideration in mind (assuming shaman + retri pala), so you will get a feel of using everything possible. It might make you reconsider your playstyle.

 

Veeloxx

Ravager isn't necessarily top dps either. If you have 2 points in Go for the Throat and your crit is around 35% unbuffed (or more), then the wind serpent with lightning breath can actually give better dps because there isn't a CD on lightning breath like there is for Gore.

 

Serf

Just because I say something doesn't feel worth it to me doesn't mean that I won't try it out. I may be stubborn about my feelings regarding something, BUT I'm not close-minded enough to never change! As has been pointed out earlier, I am very new to the whole endgame raiding scene, basically going from easy-going beta, where people can even just not show and it can be excused, to the much more hardcore alpha. I've already changed a few things that were more a problem of personal preference (I'm looking to switch out my owl for a ravager right now, picking up Gore 9 and then a Nethermine Ravager, and bracer-stats is already replaced).

I never once thought about doing scholo runs for those dark runes, though- they had entirely passed out of mind. I'm going to have to farm some of those up, because I find myself never using HS due to it being either I am at 100%, or am insta-dead, or there's no point to using it because it's a wipe anyways. xD It's too bad that they changed the adamantite sharpening stones last patch though to no longer affect ranged weapon damage.

And as I've said before, I'm very argumentative. I always take the devil's advocate position in any situation, which as some of you might have found, can be frustrating, and I apologize. It's the part of me that wants to see the responses to such things, to see if I can squeak out an iota more understanding of the thought processes behind the reasoning, until I'm satisfied with the answer, which Intermission and Rivkah have been more than helpful in bantering back and forth with me about. Knowing "X is best" doesn't help me as much as why it's best, in what ways, and exactly the details of it. I'm weird that way.

Edit: Well Vee, that depeds, honestly; i still have problems, for example, even when manually casting it, of the WS moving to range and then casting LB. Also they as a whole just don't sem to survive as well, and a dead pet gives no DPS.

 

Rivkah

Serf, I don't remember the exact thread I got the attack power debuff data from but it was in one of the EJ forum threads. I think it was actually a warlock thread discussing CoR. I had heard about there being a cap before that but when I worked on my guide I spent a lot of time looking through various sources for more detailed information and I found a post that explained it in detail. Owls can still be valuable in a variety of circumstances, but it's good to know what exactly you're getting out of it. The primary reason I used mine on Kalecgos is that we had 3 tanks, pali, warrior (with no imp DS) and druid and the one dps warrior, and the availability of DS and thunderclap was pretty inconsistent between the portals to both realms, so every little bit of debuff counted (plus that fight is really not a dps race, the key was keeping up with the healing).

Personally I found that I gained dps when I switched to castsequence (this is before I had the gear to support the heavy steady rotation), probably because it was easier for me to focus on keeping the arcanes and multis manually weaved consistently when I wasn't having to worry about timing my steadies as well, plus on any fight with a lot of movement or stuff to keep track of, it cut down on my distractions. Everyone has different results though, for some folks manually timing is superior. It's good to try both methods and see what's best for you. I highly recommend against macroing in arcanes and multis though, leaving those to manual control gives you a lot more flexibility.

In terms of kill command, I understand your reasoning, and to be honest I used to apply the same reasoning myself. I didn't use kill command for a long time because mana was tight and I didn't see the sense in including it when kill command did so little damage. But when I switched to my heavy steady rotation I started using it and I found it didn't really make that noticable a mana problem for me. Looking at my Rage kill last night, kill command was 4% of my damage. So it's basically 4% damage I was giving up. I would suggest gradually trying to work in the higher dps options into your playstyle and get a feel for what you can fit without creating too large a strain manawise. It may be that on some fights you can use it effectively and on others you can't spare the mana, or it may depend on your raid makeup, but you should do what you can to figure it out.

It sounds like you are in the progression team now, did I read you wrong? How far along are you guys? Good luck with the new spec, let us know how it works out.

The thing about the shorter rapid fire is there are a lot of times where than extra minute can make a difference in whether you use 2 or 1 rapid fire in a fight. Najentus for instance is about a 4-5 minute fight. Usually you can't safely use rapid fire right away due to threat concerns, I typically time my first rapid fire right after the first bubble, at which point I've safely feigned twice and have a good threat space to work with. Ideally I can just squeeze in a second rapid fire at the end of the fight. Although recently we've been killing Naj faster so I've been trying to find a way to use it a bit earlier, but threat is always my nemesis I'm familiar with the timing problem though, I have it with drums + rapid fire, even though I have no activated trinkets. With readiness though I expect it'd be especially nice since you can probably do rapid fire earlier and use readiness to get a spare FD, spare MD and spare rapid fire with a lot less threat concern, and still probably get in that 3 min cooldown before the fight ends.

I wasn't saying btw that you should go out of your way to drop the hit gear, trust me it'll come on its own in T6 content, just saying that gives you flexibility with your gemming.

Oh, and in the case of dark runes you could also farm the demonic runes from the demons in Felwood if you prefer that to Scholo, I'm not sure how the drop rate compares, I tend to prefer going to Felwood.

The windserpent bug btw can be worked around by turning off autocast and including lightning breath in a macro. It's a lil annoying but Slinky manages just fine On the positive side, there are a few fights where the ranged attacks on a pet are nice, I put Slinky on stay in phase 2 Illidan and he just happily casts lightning bolts from a safe spot the entire phase.

 

Gearknight

Gore and LB have the same CD. It's a 1.5-second pet GCD. LB is better at dumping focus quickly because it dumps twice as much per GCD as gore does. If you shoot more than once every 1.5s, your pet WILL waste focus during a string of 4 or more crits, but a windserpent will waste less.

If you find yourself in a group like this again, demand GoA! That's 3 dps (2 dps and a tank) who loooooove agility, and only 2 healers benefitting from WoA. Out-vote them!

 

Serf

Of course depending on certain fights I might bring my owl instead of a ravager, but currently we're at 5/5 hyjal and 5/however many is left in BT. I guess you could call it progression, but right as of now I think we're just stuck at crafting all the shadow resist crap for Shahraz. Otherwise, it's just farm content for them, new stuff for me.

I have never nor will ever use arcane shot or multi-shot in a macro. It's only autoshot and steady i have ever used, and that's exactly why I used a castsequence- though i switched steady and auto in comparison to the usual castsequence, because the usual way sometimes steady would still end up (how?) clipping auto. I'm going to try going back to a steady manual and timing it, see if I can get a better effectiveness out of it. That's mainly why I used a castsequence though.

Would the DPS of Kill Command beat out the additional damage of being in Aspect of the Hawk? because I did notice that I can get a lot of mana back, and if it would, then I can remain in viper, get my additional mana, and still do more damage via KC. Not as effective as KC and hawk, but better than currently.

I guess I'm lucky, but with the three hunters (me, Daorc, Runamuk) I can toss in my MD after theirs and the tank's already around like 10K+ aggro, I can lay into them no problem without worrying. Now with Readiness a second FD and MD after that will be very nice to blow. I`ll report my findings about changes here; one thing I`ve noticed is that either my luck with it is good, or MT activates at a higher than 6% chance currently- I can go a whole fight MT`d up, with it constantly refreshing.

And I know you weren`t criticizing me for having a lot of hit gear- Still have tons of upgrades to go through that are lacking in hit currently. No biggie. ^^ But as for the Dark Runes, far easier to get off the bosses in Scholo, for me, because I can bring along some lowbie guildies and get them loot at the same time, with the added bonus they aren't soulbound, and have a pretty high drop rate- not only off the bosses, but the one off the necros and dark summoners is not half bad either. I'll try out the Felwood guys though... Might be faster solo-farming those than trying to go through Scholo.

As for the windserpent bug- that's what I'm saying, though. I've used it in manual cast, used it in a cast macro, no autocast; Still wants to run away. Dunno why.

Update: Okay... Wow. yeah. I need to get rid of some of this hit rating! xD I'm now at 162 hit rating thanks to ALL THREE hunters in the raid PASSING on the halberd of Desolation so I could get it! @_@ SO I'm going to be dropping Surefooted for now to buff my traps, until I can start dropping some of this hit I have.

 

myonions

Just an FYI - Multishot is the nuts in MH for the trash for a Survival Hunter. A multishot that crits 3 targets at once = 3 x EW - not to mention more DPS for you. Also if you have 3/3 TotH and all 3 crit, you actually gain mana from firing it

Don't be afraid of mana pots, and if you have enough pally's in the raid maybe push for a Blessing of Wisdom.

Group makeup is also very important. The best party DPS (I have found so far) is a Feral Druid, a Shammy Dropping Agi, and the other 2 spots are usually DPS Warrior and BM hunter or maybe a rogue so they get added benefit. Oh and 2 of us with Drums

Having a Retardin (retribution paladin) in the raid is also a boost to DPS. They have something similar to EW - a raidwide debuff on the target that gives +3% extra Crit chance on the Target - cannot remember the talents name now.

After some testing the last few raids - with a little haste 25-50 Manito's and manually weaving in Arcanes and Multis (unless hasted enough for a 1:1) works best for me. So, anyone with similar gear/talent spec may wish to try that to see if it works for them.

 

Serf

There's two retadin buffs- imp Sanctity Aura for extra damage, and the imp seal of crusader I believe it is.

I know my shots just fine- It's just when you get into exact specifics of macros that I get edgy.

 

Dralmoo

So I've been raiding as survival for a few days now and I feel like it's starting to "click" a little bit, but I'm sure there's still room for improvement, so any feedback would be appreciated. The only thing I would do differently for sure is chug more haste potions in Sunwell, but that was our first Felmyst kill after 2 days of many attempts and I ran out. I currently have 0 mana problems with 3/3 thrill and a ret pally, should I move those points to RWS? Or maybe try 20/41 instead?

Felmyst
Gorefiend

 

myonions

I would try to keep at least 1/3 in thrill if possible mate. It's so effective having 3/3 it's easy to discount the amount of mana it gives you. You will miss it if you remove all 3 for sure.

I was raiding with a barrage spec just as you are now but once I switched to Readiness I got roughly an extra 100 dps.

It just takes a little while to get used to the order in which you do things to take full advantage of it.

I do a MD, quick shots, then FD, a bit more pew, Readiness then repeat rotation going followed by drums and if i'm lucky a Bloodlust.

Give it a try and see how you get on.

 

raphgar

I recently started binding my 2:1 steady shot macro w/ KC to my mouse-wheel up rather than clicking it. Whenever my haste is increased I simply use Quartz to determine when to stop wheeling or when to throw in an arcane shot. In my first gorefiend kill, literally about 30 minutes after rebinding my key, I put out nearly 2550 dps. This is with 2 BM hunters in my group as well as a resto shaman and feral druid. The shaman was subbed out and we got 2 bloodlusts, however one of the BM hunters was DC'd about half the fight. Drum rotation was used through the whole fight and Judgment of Wisdom was up as well.

Anyways, just a friendly recommendation to all fellow survival hunters to give it a try.

Gorefiend WWS

NOTE: Feel free to armory me for my gear but for the fight listed above note that I used the Ashtounge Talisman in place of the Madness of the Betrayer since I ended up getting the Madness later that night. Used pet: Ravager.

 

Kutak

I agree with you as far as the scroll wheel goes, I actually bind it to both scroll up and scroll down so my finger never gets tired.

May I ask, why are you equipping madness right now? I doubt it beats ashtongue when the hit rating is entirely wasted.

 

myonions

Nice work man. can you link the macro you used?

I bind the Manito's macro to the number 1 and spam the hell out of that clicking Arcane or Multi Manually.

I was under the impression though that you can only spam so fast and then it make no difference. Maybe you proved that wrong - or maybe you just had some sexy haste.

Anyway nice job.

EDIT: And lol at the pet name. I have a Cat named Vag but that is another story...

 

raphgar

To be honest that's a really good question. I'm a little ahead of myself since my Shivering Felspine has failed to drop. I'll play around with my trinkets a bit. I am still thinking about even using the Ashtongue Trinket + Madness Trinket together without the ZA trinket. Using that combination can really be fight dependent though.

Here's the macro I used:

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

 

Whitefyst

First, 3/3 EW is not mandatory. It is preferred though, especially at lower crit levels. I did a post on the debate between 2/3 EW and 3/3 EW a while back.

At lower instance levels where the hunter has lower crit percent and the raid DPS benefit from EW is a large percent of the raid's DPS, 3/3 EW over 2/3 EW can make a huge difference in the raid's overall DPS.

However, nearing end game when the both the hunter's crit percent is higher and all the DPS in the raid put out much larger DPS numbers, the benefit of 3/3 EW versus 2/3 EW is not as large.

Here is a table of "ideal" (no breaks in rotation) EW uptime using a 1:1.4 rotation with crit percent for both 3/3 and 2/3 EW:

Crit %.....2/3......3/3......Diff
=====================
25........72.06...86.93...14.87
30........78.99...91.71...12.72
35........84.39...95.25...10.86
40........88.57...97.31....8.74
45........91.73...98.54....6.81
50........94.12...99.26....5.14
55........95.88...99.65....3.77
60........97.17...99.85....2.68

Two trends to be taken from this table:
1) The benefit of EW from crit is asymtotic. Hence, as crit gets higher and you are approaching 100% EW uptime, the changes in EW uptime get smaller with changes in crit.
2) Due to the asymtotic effect of EW uptime with crit, as crit rate becomes higher, the difference in EW uptime from 2/3 and 3/3 EW becomes smaller.

Let's now compare an early raiding instance hunter with an endgame hunter for illustrative purposes (the exact numbers are not important here but the trends).

Assuming that the early hunter has about 900 agility fully raid buffed and 30% crit and that the average DPS of raid members in 700 DPS with 14 DPSers, then:
- average EW AP from 3/3 is 206.35 providing about 414 DPS to the raid
- the raid does 9.8K DPS on its own, hence, EW boosts the raid DPS by 4.2%
- average EW AP from 2/3 is 177.73 providing about 355 DPS to the raid for a 3.6% boost
- here the difference between 2/3 and 3/3 EW is only about 60 raid DPS or about 0.6% of the raid's DPS
- the 0.6% percent between 2/3 and 3/3 may not seem much, but it is even greater when not able to perform under ideal conditions with rotation being interrupted by moving, damage, etc

Assuming that the near endgame hunter has about 1200 agility fully raid buffed and 50% crit and that the average DPS of raid members in 1500 DPS with 14 DPSers, then:
- average EW AP from 3/3 is 297.78 providing about 596 DPS to the raid
- the raid does 21K DPS on its own, hence, EW boosts the raid DPS by 2.9%
- average EW AP from 2/3 is 282.36 providing about 565 DPS to the raid for a 2.7% boost
- here the difference between 2/3 and 3/3 EW is only about 30 raid DPS or about 0.2% of the raid's DPS
- the affect of the unideal rotations are less on the EW for the near endgame hunter who has much higher crit percent than for the early hunter

So for the early hunter, the difference between 2/3 EW and 3/3 EW tends to be more absolute raid DPS and percentage of raid DPS than it is for a near end game hunter. Furthermore, it is difficult for an early hunter at his relative low DPS to find a place for the one talent point going from 3/3 EW to 2/3 EW to make up for the loss in raid DPS (60 in this example); however, it is much more easier with a near end game hunter to utilize the point from 3/3 EW to 2/3 EW to increase his personal DPS enough to make up for the loss in raid DPS. Futhermore, near endgame, the difference in raid DPS from 3/3 to 2/3 EW is relatively small compared to the overall raid DPS that the loss is meaningless to raid and allows the hunter to spend the point on something more personally useful.

I was a huge advocate of 3/3 EW until a couple months ago when I realized that I had gotten to such a high crit % that difference between 2/3 and 3/3 EW was so small that it was no longer providing significant benefit to the raid while at the same time that high crit percent with a 3rd point in TotH would greatly help my mana situation, since I rarely received any mana support in raids. Getting that 3rd point in TotH greatly increased my max DPS uptime and decreased my reliance on mana pots and Aspect of the Viper (even with using two mana oils and major mageblood elixirs) with allowing the use of more haste pots and that with how high my DPS was that the improved max DPS uptime provided a better benefit to the raid (and my moral) than the extra EW in most situations.

Now, I have no good rule for when to switch from 3/3 to 2/3 EW since it depends on a case by case basis with the spec, gear, and rotation of the hunter and the current capability and needs of the raid and the typical buffs the hunter receives during the raids.

Second, as I have postulated many times in posts in this thread, I am an advocate of not only Readiness but also MT. Now the benefits of MT changes depending on your rotation and weapon speed, but the more shots per second you perform, the greater your MT uptime and average crit percent from it is. Personally, assuming execution of my ideal rotation, MT provides 3.7% crit on average for my character. This is even higher when factoring in the increased SPS and MT uptime from haste effects. Previous posts provide more data, but that much crit not only directly increases my DPS but also increases my DPS from greater EW uptime (improves raid DPS as well), from my pet DPS from more focus from GftT, and from increased max DPS uptime from more mana from TotH. Analyses I have performed have shown that for many situations, a 0/20/41 build can outperform any other build plus provide the utility of Readiness. Now, I am not saying that there are not situations in which other specs can be better. Plenty of those situations exist; however, I am saying that 0/20/41 is a viable spec in a lot of situations and because of the value of MT.

Third, as has been also stated in this thread on numerous occasions, although stacking agility to maximize EW AP is generally the wise decision to increase overall raid DPS, it is not always so. There are plenty of instances where choosing the item with less agility can increase overall raid DPS, so stacking agility should not be done blindly. For instance, a while back I replaced my [Bracers of the Pathfinder] with [Bindings of Lightning Reflexes], although I lost 14 agility in that exchange. The reason I did this is that the haste allowed me with the badge crossbow to do a 1:1.4 rotation unhasted for max DPS instead of the 1:1.5. Switching the 2 items, I get 15 more DPS but -3.69 EW AP for a net of about +8 DPS unhasted. This difference is even greater under haste effects. And the benefits of the lesser agility item can occur even when it doesn't have haste.

I am definitely not arguing that generally the highest SV DPS reports are from hunters using a 2:1/3:2/1:1. However, you will also see in those reports that the trend is hunters with a 3.0 speed weapon, DST, IAoTH builds supported with a lot of haste effects, and mana support. Not that all of them have all of the items I listed but that they tend to have a large number of those factors on their side that biases towards using that rotation more often. They tend to have (or close to) the more ideal situations.

For SV hunters that do not have that ideal situation, particularly the lack haste effects provided by others or a DST, then their 1:1 up time tends to be lower making other rotations more viable when not using the 1:1. In my analyses, I have tried to make it clear under what conditions I performed them and under what conditions I felt my recommendations performed better and under what conditions I felt optional recommendations may perform better.

In the case that your referenced, my recommendation was designed specifically for the person I was replying to and their gear and talents. My recommendation was not meant to be taken out of context or as gospel for the general situations, and I have always tried to make that clear.

And the analyses I did a while back (which hold for the assumptions I listed) was performed over haste ranges from 0 to 1000 with indicating what rotation was best at what haste rating. My recommendations in some cases provided different answers depending on how often you were under haste effects since that can bias the recommendation one way or another.

My analyses had to assume that you had sufficient mana to perform your rotations. It is almost impossible to account for everybody's vastly varying mana situations. However, from analyses I have performed, it is quite clear to me the huge DPS lost unhasted between the 1:1.4 and the 2:1 or 3:2. Even having to resort to AoV with 1:1.4 to keep DPS uptime it outperforms the 2:1 or 3:2 by a large amount. Also using a mana pot and a 1:1.4 rotation performed better DPS average out over a 2 min period than the unhasted 2:1/3:2 rotation with 12s of haste potion. The only times I see the 2:1 or 3:2 doing better is if you are having severe mana problems where you have significantly reduced max DPS uptime or when you are operating under the majority of the conditions I listed above that has provided the best SV hunter DPS where you are rarely operating in unhasted conditions.

The other major factor where I can see the 2:1/3:2/1:1 doing better that the 1:1.5/4/1:1 rotation, as I have stated previously, is where people are having a hard time correctly implementing the 1:1.5 and 1:1.4 rotations and switching to the 1:1 rotation under appropriate haste effects. The 1:1.5 and 1:1.4 rotations are difficult to implement exactly (I am definitely not perfect at it although I think I do it rather well) and mistakes can cost you a lot of DPS. Plus, if you do not switch to the 1:1 at the right times, you will lose additional DPS from the ideal. On ther other hand, the 2:1/3:2/2:1 rotation is much easier and almost error proof to implement over the whole range of haste. Thus, folks tend to get near ideal results from it more often. However, when folks state that they see in game that the 2:1/3:2 is providing better results for them than the 1:1.5/4, that does not mean that their new rotation is better than the 1:1.5/4 only that it is better then how they were implementing it and not necessarily that they are currently doing the maximum DPS that they could be doing.

Yes, I tried to make it clear in my analyses that I used Cheeky's and were purely theoretical if you were able to ideally perform each situation. It would be impossible to perform a haste analysis in game with steps of 25 haste rating to determine what rotations are most ideal at which haste ratings and when to switch rotations for a given situation.

I also pointed out that I have observed many of the trends I see in my results in game, and my DPS has improved from utilizing the results of my analyses.

The other point to make sure to understand is the context of results. People should not take the results of my analyses out of context and try to apply them to general situations, that just doesn't work or hold true. Just like it doesn't work to look at what the SV hunters that have been getting the max DPS do and expect what they are doing to be best for you when your situation may be very different from theirs. The key is to observe what is working best for different players in different situations and determine which situation most matches the typical conditions for your player in your raids or the conditions that you could possibly obtain and to model your approach for the observations that work best in those situations.

A lot of people have adopted the approach that has provided the best SV DPS numbers without analyzing whether that approach is indeed best for their situation. For those whose situations more closely mimic those that have gotten the higher DPS, then adopting that approach has generally been beneficial for them. For those who have adopted that approach whose situations are not similar to that ideal situation, they can be actually hurting their performance over what they could be doing.

And as I said in my reply to Namarus, the 2:1/3:2/1:1 rotation is definitely easy to implememt near ideally with great macros that make it even easier while the 1:1.5/4 rotations are much more difficult to implement ideally with no ideal macros. Thus, the 1:1.5/4 are much more suscpetible to providing less than ideal results due to unideal implementation.

 

Veeloxx

I suggest getting rid of at least 1 of your 4 agi 4 hit gems and replacing it with an 8 or 10 agi gem. for some reason you have 3 of the orange gems even though you only need 2 for your meta activation, and you'd be getting better agility (even though you'd be losing socket bonuses) by gemming with straight agi

 

Serf

Yeah, I may just. But first I'm going to do some hit loss maths first, to see exactly how much I can safely lose to upgrade some very important pieces. Why trade out the gem when I'm just going to need to get it replaced to the original one after?