• Glaurong

Take this idea to the extreme:

If you have any slack in your rotation at all and your steady shot does at least as much damage as your auto, won't you gain dps by firing a steady shot if both multi/arcane are on cooldown? A true 2:1 rotation.

Auto, Special, Special, Auto - 4 shots every 3.5 seconds (2 global cools and 0.5s auto firing time). It seems this yields the highest possible shot per second numbers.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Hunterlin

Your rotation shows just 3 shots in 3.5 seconds
(rotation : auto - special - special )

 

Zogeth

Thats a 1:1.5 rotation, not a 2:1 rotation, or am i missing something?

 

◊ Lactose

It depends how much you delay your next Auto Shot, compared to how much you gain in terms of damage.

Even if your Steady Shot does more damage than your Auto Shot, and if you have some dead time where you're just waiting, adding a Steady Shot there might still reduce your DPS.
With [Steady Shot damage] being higher than [Auto Shot damage], yes, you will increase your damage. With [Steady Shot cast time] being higher than [Auto Shot cast time & dead time], the time needed to deal this damage is also increased.
I.e. you might deal 200 damage instead of 150, but you might require 2.5 seconds to do so instead of 1.5, resulting in a lowered DPS.
In some cases, delaying your next Auto Shot would be optimal for highest DPS, in other cases not.

In addition, your shot rotation might suffer in the long term even with a short term gain - burst vs sustained.

Then there's also the issue with the mana intensity of such a setup, although it, in some cases, is a non-issue. Again, sustainability.

So, no, you won't automatically gain DPS by slotting in another special, even if it does more damage and you have some dead time in your rotation.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Jintra

I specced
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
and I'm very successfull with it.

Keeping my old MM-Rotation with Multi rocks the E-peen AND the Specc pushed our Rogues far enough to shine as the spear of our dps. Followed by me on place 2 or 3 or, depending on encounter, by Warlocks and Mages.
The last time even I got exited about SV-Dps. Placed second at Lurker without pet (don't ask me why i didn't use it...was sleepy this time ^_^). SW_Stats pronounced 750 dps, WWS 992.

At the time, BM has the most promising talents to shine as DD, MM will loose due to lack of synergies and scaling.
Netherless, SV will overcome BM due to better scaling with equip and buffs. Not mentioning Raidsupport.

att, I'm at 2032 AP and 35% crit with AotH up. 692 agility.
There's much space and I'm looking forward to all the changings blizzard will bring down on us.

About rotations. How about this rotation? ^_^

Steady-auto-multi-arcane-auto-steady-auto-steady-arcane-auto-....

4 Auto, 6 specials. Another version of 1:1,5 but max-Specials.
only wotrking with 5/5 imp. arcane.

10 Shots in 10 seconds without delaying autoshots with AS of ~2,5. Beat it

 

• Glaurong

Brain fart I guess!

Edit: Although, with SS and a 1s steady shot cast (and minimal latency) you get 3 shots in 3 seconds ...

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Intenso

I am currently bm, the dmg output is great, the playstyle is boring. I would like to spec survival and this is the current gear i have in my hands for use:

Head
[Steelspine Faceguard]
[Beast Lord Helm]
[Helm of Desolation]
[Stalker's Helmet of Second Sight]

Neck
[Saberclaw Talisman]
[Choker of Vile Intent]

Shoulders
[Demon Stalker Shoulderguards]
[Beastmaw Pauldrons]
[Beast Lord Mantle]
[Pauldrons of Desolation]

Back
[Blood Knight War Cloak]
[Farstrider Wildercloak]

Chest
[Shard Encrusted Breastplate]
[Scaled Breastplate of Carnage]
[Beast Lord Cuirass]

Wrist
[Stalker's War Bands]

Waist
[Girdle of the Prowler]

Leggings
[Rip-Flayer Leggings]
[Midnight Legguards]
[Beast Lord Leggings]
[Emerald-Scale Greaves]
[Scaled Greaves of Patience]

Hands
[Demon Stalker Gauntlets]
[Handguards of the Steady]
[Beast Lord Handguards]
[Gauntlets of Desolation]

Boots
[Fiend Slayer Boots]
[Ferocious Swift-Kickers]
[Rapscallion Boots]
[Greaves of Desolation]

Rings:
[Garona's Signet Ring]
[Ring of Arathi Warlords]
[Violet Signet of the Master Assassin]
[Lightwarden's Band]

Trinkets
[Hourglass of the Unraveller]
[Bloodlust Brooch]

Weapons
[Sonic Spear]
[Axe of the Gronn Lords]
[Emerald Ripper]
[Guile of Khoraazi]
[Borak's Reminder]
[Crystalforged War Axe]
2x[Stellaris]

Bow
[Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix]

What would you use from these and with what enchants/gems?

Since this is a bit time consuming to answer, i would like to thank you in advance.

 

Jander

To evaluate gear I usually use Cheeky's spreadsheet to get AEP values for the stats I care about. Plug those values into lootzor and finally verify the results in the spreadsheet again.

In a raid environment for a SV hunter, Agility trumps both crit rating and attack power. I've found that plugging in 3.1 for Agility 1.9 for crit rating and 1 for attack power worked for me at my current level of gear. You may want to assign values for hit rating, sta etc. to suit your preferences, but I know I am hit capped with my current gear and just take whatever incidental stamina and int I get on the best dps gear.

lootzor.com - World of Warcraft search and rate items - profile your wow character

 

Zedd

doesnt 100% belong here, awnsered in a pm though

 

Intenso

Thanks a lot both of you and sorry for putting it here. Didn't know where to post it.

 

Kaber

I took the dive and went survival last night for Mag since we had an incredibly melee heavy group at the time. My personal DPS went down at least 200, and I didn't notice a real increase in everyone else's DPS. We had no enhance shammy, so it was tough to tell how much I was helping the rogues since this was our first ever raid without windfury.

My initial observation is this: in order for people to get anything out of Expose weakness they need to be getting the most out of their class they can be in the first place. Unfortunately, a lot of our people aren't doing that, and unless we have most of our "A team" on, we don't do very well because so many of our DPSers dont seem to care. . I am going to keep going with survival for about a week to see how things progress, but so far I am dissatisfied with it. EW seems to lend itself to a raid where people are maximizing themselves, but in a raid where they aren't it didn't seem to make any difference.With full buffs I had something like 830 agility.

Here's our WWS for last night (I was SV, top rogue was Combat maces):
Wow Web Stats

And the WWS from a week ago (BM, top rogue Hemo):
Wow Web Stats

My personal DPS last week was up about 55 more than usual as BM because our rogue took a Hemo build, giving me +50 damage per shot (1 shot every second, plus the pet getting 50 per swing), while the rogue's personal DPS was down more than 100 from he usually gets that fight as combat.

 

Groggan

You only did 38 multi shots and 27 arcane shots, that's why your personal DPS dropped so drastically (it'll drop, but not necessarily that drastically). Work on your 1:1.5 rotation between now and your next Mag raid and see how your DPS goes up.

 

Kaber

edit: improving my rotations is off the topic of this thread. I burn berserk+rapid fire and let it auto-shoot while i regen mana during the haste, hence the greater number of auto's to specials.

All that aside, I still see a loss of over 200 DPS, and little gain for the rest of our raid. That was more the point I was trying to show in posting those WWS.

 

Groggan

Hmm, fair 'nough
I would note that the raid-wide gain isn't one you are likely to feel. The individual dps gain for an individual character from a 250AP EW is only going to be around 75 dps most likely (and that would be the theorycrafted dps gain). As a result, it isn't very easy to "feel" how much it is helping your raid.

 

Rakan

Is this the correct thread to speak about personal evaluations and how to get better as a SV hunter or is simply an evaluation of SV Raiding?

Sorry, been reading here at EJ only for about a month now, so I am unsure how to interact properly with the people here, i.e. where to post as a SV hunter and how to get better.

Rakan - WWS

sorry, this will prolly help.

 

Kaber

There is a WWS thread to post on for personal improvement, this is where we discuss the mechanics of survival and how it performs (this got slightly derailed when I posted my WWS to try and show the difference in raid DPS with survival when personal improvement was brought up). Any WWS that gets posted here is for the purpose of analyzing survival itself and the contribution it does or does not bring to a raid, not the person in question.


Back onto the topic of the WWS: I noticed our BM hunter had the same DPS from raid 1 and raid 2, while the MM dropped over 200 DPS for no good reason. With expose weakness I would assume our BM would see an increase in DPS. Our rogue did decent DPS this time (I think he was the only rogue in with a resto shaman, and he convinced the shammy to drop WF), but that should be more of a function of going from Hemo back to combat. The other rogues seem to be sitting in about the same place. As far as I can tell, people really did not gain all that much from expose weakness in practice, though in theory they should have all seen at least a 70 DPS improvement.

The fight took 10% longer with me as survival as well. Survival is very difficult for me to figure out in terms of value. I can see the potential gains, but the potential keeps somehow getting lost in practice.

 

miruman

Surv definitely takes a lot more refining and finesse than BM and the initial personal DPS drop is a bit of a system shock, but I have definitely seen WWS logs posted that prove it viable.

What macro are you using for your shot cycle? BM 1:1 + KC macros are super spammable and efficient, but I am yet to find any long cycle 1:1.5 shot cycle macros that really seem to work as intended.

 

Rakan

1. Thanks for the info.

2. I couldn't agree more that it is very difficult to figure out the actual value of EW. I would think it would come down to personal play style, which as you noted for your MM hunter, was down 200 dps for no good reason. More specifically what I mean by this, is that the contribution from EW is only roughly 70 dps, while nothing to sneeze at, can be easily overlooked/dismissed/missed in the natural ebb and flow of a persons play style. I could be mistaken, but I don't really think anybody can keep up the exact same dps every time, even on a Gruul or Void Reaver fight, because of the random nature of the cave ins/orbs.

 

Kaber

I am actually pulling KC out of my surv/mm rotation because i think the DPS loss from the auto shot timer is greater than the value of KC itself. With over 30% crit, I think you might be able to fit 1 KC in to the 10s cycle without breaking it (toss it in somewhere towards the end before a steady shot), but should you come to KC when it isnt up in the cycle you're a little screwed.

My rotation is setup for a 2.35-2.45 shot speed:

/castsequence reset=5/combat Multi-Shot(Rank 1), Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot

In fact I recommend the above macro for any shot speed slower than 2.4s to avoid any heavy shot clipping. But you really need good latency to use macros like this, otherwise timing it yourself and casting the abilities as they come up is going to be better for DPS.

 

Groggan

For SV hunters (and MM) I would highly advise against using a macro. They are nice for farming, but in a fight where you need to optimize DPS you need to be manually triggering your steady shots to minimize auto-shot delay. This unfortunately makes KC usage very difficult in practice (I think the best solution is probably two steady shot hot-keys, one of them being a KC-steady macro). The downside of this is you have to notice that KC is ready and use the appropriate key (or can you craft a KC-steady macro that uses KC before the steady if KC is up, otherwise just uses the steady?).

 

Malthes