I believe it used to be base + 0.24*AP, but I don't know if it's changed since 2.0. I haven't been able to make myself level my rogue past 62, so haven't got anything to check that against.
On that note, though, it was my understanding that Rip had the same base+0.24*AP formula at lvl60. I have played my druid a great deal, and with ~2300ap a mangled rip (+30% dmg) does ~3k damage over 12seconds. At ( 1092 + X*AP ) * 1.3 * 1.1, X ends up being around 0.44. Unless I'm missing something, that's a large change. Hence my concern that the Rupture formula has changed on me when I wasn't looking.
Is there a coefficient on AP based on the number of CP you have? Otherwise rupture would eventually scale to the point where you would only want to use 1cp ruptures..
ex:
(1000 + 0.24*AP)*MangleBuff*SerratedBladesBuff
vs
(1000 + (0.2*CP)*0.24*AP)*MangleBuff*SerratedBladesBuff
Combo points invested definitely affect damage per tic. Tested on the Unliving Residents outside Kara about 15 seconds ago. My rupture ticks for 96-97 with one combo point invested and 171-172 with five invested. I have 1542 AP at the moment.
I'll go ahead and see if it stays consistent while I'm waiting outside.
Is there a coefficient on AP based on the number of CP you have? Otherwise rupture would eventually scale to the point where you would only want to use 1cp ruptures..
ex:
(1000 + 0.24*AP)*MangleBuff*SerratedBladesBuff
vs
(1000 + (0.2*CP)*0.24*AP)*MangleBuff*SerratedBladesBuff
I'm not sure what the exact coefficient is. But in my bit of expirementing...
I found that as you go from 1cp to 5cp you get much more damage per tick.
From 1 -> 2, small increase
From 2 -> 3, small increase
From 3 -> 4, large increase
From 4 -> 5, medium increase
Not quite exact numbers, but the idea is if your going to be running a rupture that goes its full length, you should always use 5cp and if you don't NEVER go less than 4cp.
Looks to me like the base damage of Rip is not what we've been postulating. Based on that data set, we see that increasing AP by 592 increases the damage of 5pt Rip by ~162. This means each AP is increasing the damage of a 5pt rupture by roughly 162/592 = .274 damage; but that's after the 10% bonus, so it's increasing the base damage by .249 per AP. Now, that looks a whole lot like it's supposed to be .25, so lets posit for the moment that the damage of a 5 point Rip is supposed to be X + .25 AP. Then 1.1 * (X + .25 * 2303) = 2433... solving for X yields ~1636.
Now, curiously enough, TT Rip is 1092, and 1.5 times 1092 is 1638 - very close to our number. So it looks to me like the base Rip damage is 50% higher than listed, and the actual Rip damage output is given by 1636 + .25*AP.
Lets check this for 1711 AP: 1638 + 1711/4 = 2066 - throw in the 10% bonus, and we have 2272 damage, which would indeed tick for 378 and 379. So it's at least plausible.
Unfortunately, the lower combo point numbers don't work out so elegantly, so this still isn't a full picture of what's going on; but for 5 combo points, 1.5*1092 + .25*AP seems accurate.
One thing that many people seem to be missing is the fact that Rip lasts 12 seconds (6 ticks) no matter how many combo points, Rupture ticks longer with more combo points (4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 ticks). Obviously Rip ticks will increase substantially with more combo points when compared to Rupture which relies more on the increased number of ticks.
Rupture(Rank 7) scales with 24/21/18/10/4% (or 3/3/3/2/1% per tick) of your AP at 5/4/3/2/1 CPs.
Example calculation, with 3/3 Serrated Blades, 1500 AP, 4 CP Rupture (tooltip damage - 798):
(798 + 21% x 1500) x 130% = 1446.9 (7 x 206.7 per tick)
Rip(Rank 7) scales with 24/24/18/12/6% (or 4/4/3/2/1% per tick) of your AP at 5/4/3/2/1 CPs. The tooltip stated base damage values are wrong (at least with Mangle and 5/5 Naturalist talented); they are pretty exactly 130% x 110% higher than stated.
Example with 5/5 Naturalist (110%), Mangle active (130%), 2000 AP, 5 CP Rip (tooltip damage - 1092):
(1092 x 130% x 110% + 24% x 2000) x 130% x 110% = 2919.4 (6 x 486.6 per tick)
Note that a mangle buffed Rip adds nearly as much DPS as SnD and Rupture combined at comparable gear; it scales only slightly worse than SnD, but starts a lot higher (as pretty much all druid yellow abilities).
I've tested Rip(Rank 7) first, and initially assumed the tooltop stated base damage values to be correct, which would have implied a new scaling (up to level 60's Rip, the "official" 24/24/18/12/6% was always easily verified). The actual, unchanged, scaling can easily be determined by running tests at 2 different APs; extrapolating for 0 AP yielded values between 142-143% of those stated, hence the 130% x 110% theory (and the idea that this base damage modifier only holds for Mangle and Naturalist specced druids; i haven't checked that, however).
For Rupture, those tests were simply repeated - the tooltip stated base damage values were correct (tested with 3/3 Serrated Blades - so if a druid-like hidden "double multiplier" was existing here too it would have been revealed).
I have not gotten my bear friend to stand still while I pound on her yet (my melee version of dr boom), however for a long time as a backstab rogue my cycle was backstab-rupture-repeat. I had based this off of that formula, so it could be wrong, but I noticed an anectdotal increase in dps when I went to that from five point ruptures. Though that could also be an odd artifact of the fact that backstab-rupture with relentless assult takes, on average, eight seconds to regen the energy from, which happens to be the same amount of ticks the rupture runs for, so I was able to keep it running constantly.
I will be experimenting, because theorycrafting with excel it seems to me that the ap at which that happens wouldn't be that high in BC numbers, but this was the conclusion I had come to and had been working off of for a while now.
I have not gotten my bear friend to stand still while I pound on her yet (my melee version of dr boom), however for a long time as a backstab rogue my cycle was backstab-rupture-repeat. I had based this off of that formula, so it could be wrong, but I noticed an anectdotal increase in dps when I went to that from five point ruptures. Though that could also be an odd artifact of the fact that backstab-rupture with relentless assult takes, on average, eight seconds to regen the energy from, which happens to be the same amount of ticks the rupture runs for, so I was able to keep it running constantly.
I will be experimenting, because theorycrafting with excel it seems to me that the ap at which that happens wouldn't be that high in BC numbers, but this was the conclusion I had come to and had been working off of for a while now.
Nachrichter, is it possible that you had a 5% zone buff applied while testing? All your data sets are consistently 5% above what my derived formulas would imply, while e.g. Saeryn's Rupture values fit almost perfectly (and there's no zone buffs near Karazhan).
Last edited by Herb : 05/30/07 at 1:53 PM.
Reason: spelling
I tested this extensively at varying levels of AP when they first added AP scaling to rupture. 1 pt rupture gets 1% AP per tick. 2 pt gets 2% per tick. 3, 4, and 5 pt get 3% per tick. I don't remember the base numbers for the tooltip off the top of my head, so I just put in "Tooltip Number". The 4,5,6,7,8 at the end of each formula is the number of ticks.
Nachrichter, is it possible that you had a 5% zone buff applied while testing? All your data sets are consistently 5% above what my derived formulas would imply, while e.g. Saeryn's Rupture values fit almost perfectly (and there's no zone buffs near Karazhan).
It's conceivable, though I'd like to think I wouldn't have missed a zone buff. I was killing the ogres above Shatt. I don't actually know which zone that area is located in.
I tested this extensively at varying levels of AP when they first added AP scaling to rupture. 1 pt rupture gets 1% AP per tick. 2 pt gets 2% per tick. 3, 4, and 5 pt get 3% per tick. I don't remember the base numbers for the tooltip off the top of my head, so I just put in "Tooltip Number". The 4,5,6,7,8 at the end of each formula is the number of ticks.
@ 1CP:
Tooltip Number + (AP * .01) * 4
@ 2CP:
Tooltip Number + (AP * .02) * 5
@ 3CP:
Tooltip Number + (AP * .03) * 6
@ 4CP:
Tooltip Number + (AP * .03) * 7
@ 5CP:
Tooltip Number + (AP * .03) * 8
Did some quick tests of this tonight, and it seems right on - at least for 3, 4, and 5 combo points. Didn't bother to test 2 and 1, because, really, who uses those in PvE anyway?
It's conceivable, though I'd like to think I wouldn't have missed a zone buff. I was killing the ogres above Shatt. I don't actually know which zone that area is located in.
05/26/07, 10:46 PM
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