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Old 05/28/07, 1:29 AM   #1
Flr
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mazrigos (EU)
Enhancement shaman or some other dps class?

Hi, I would like to get some calculations about enhancement shamans group buffs and damage versus some other dps class. Which one is better for over all raid dps? bcs atm I'm in a situation that my guilds GM is forcing me to spec resto by telling me that my buffs to group doesn't outweight the damage "fix" I got in 2.1. So please can you help me do some math.


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Old 05/28/07, 1:40 AM   #2
Malan
Mike Tyson
 
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Improved battleshout from the Fury tree is the only buff available to a melee group that is greater than a talented Strength of Earth totem, and when you add Unleashed rage to that, there is no buff or elixir/flask in the game anymore that adds as much AP to a melee group as an enhancement shaman.

For future reference though, asking anyone here to just spout out some magical calculations for you to go back to prove something with isn't going to get you very far. Do what you can on your own, post showing it (and in an appropriate existing thread if possible) and ask for specific help regarding what you don't understand. Broad sweeping questions like yours above do not go over well.

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Old 05/28/07, 1:51 AM   #3
pewsey
is in need of adult supervision
 
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Human Paladin
 
Dragonblight
My GM and Raid Leader will have to pry my shaman from my cold dead fingers.

If they did nothing more than drop totems and /dance, they are adding enough value to the dps warrior, rogue, rogue, rogue group that they're in to justify a place.

I'll try and get some actual numbers for you on our next tank and spank, but I have the mages and warlocks crying salty tears of QQ about my increased DPS. Hmmm, salty warlock tears.

Of course, if you're short of healing, then spec resto for a while, or find a guild that will appreciate your buffs.

(PS: Our guild gets on very well, we do compete very hard on the DPS charts and there is real min/max competition going on between the rogues/casters and DPS warrior for top dog.)

Pewsey has heard about tact and discretion, but tends to regard them much as children view vegetables.
There are only two kinds of MMOs: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody plays. (inspired by Bjarne Stroustrup)

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Old 05/28/07, 2:03 AM   #4
Flr
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mazrigos (EU)
How about comparing rogues damage with normal shaman totems and whitout unleashed rage and with imp. enhancing totems, unleashed rage and imp. weapon totems.

Strength of Earth Totem: 86 str untalented 98 str talented.
Windfury Totem: +445 ap to extra attack untalented 578 ap talented.


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Old 05/28/07, 2:48 AM   #5
Mearis
Mr. Sandman
 
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Dwarf Priest
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Originally Posted by Flr View Post
How about comparing rogues damage with normal shaman totems and whitout unleashed rage and with imp. enhancing totems, unleashed rage and imp. weapon totems.

Strength of Earth Totem: 86 str untalented 98 str talented.
Windfury Totem: +445 ap to extra attack untalented 578 ap talented.
Do what you can on your own, post showing it (and in an appropriate existing thread if possible) and ask for specific help regarding what you don't understand.
Are you ignoring everything that people are telling you?

More often than not, when hybrids are asked to spec holy/resto it is because you are short on healers, not because a hybrids tends to be dead weight on a raid. Tipically, enh shaman DPS for my guild is not anything spectacular, I have never seen a shaman come close to Sebudai, but the added synergy makes it worth it.

Figure that the tipical melee group is 2 rogues, 2 warrior, 1 shaman or 3 rogues, 1 warrior. Check how much AP is added by your totems, there are plenty of useful spreadsheets on this board, and verify the contributions that are due specifically to unleashed rage, and enhanced totems, since you can add a basic windfury totem+strength of earth totem as a restoration shaman.

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Old 05/28/07, 8:05 AM   #6
Pater
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Khadgar
I'm sorry you have a hard-head for a raid leader. If he doesn't already understand that no other class/spec can give 10% AP boost to 4 other people, while also putting out solid dps itself, I don't think there's anything you can do to convince him.

Try running a test. Parse War/3xRogue/You and then invite any class to substitute for you and see if the group's DPS can come close.

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Old 05/28/07, 8:31 AM   #7
Mearis
Mr. Sandman
 
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Dwarf Priest
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Originally Posted by Pater View Post
I'm sorry you have a hard-head for a raid leader. If he doesn't already understand that no other class/spec can give 10% AP boost to 4 other people, while also putting out solid dps itself, I don't think there's anything you can do to convince him.

Try running a test. Parse War/3xRogue/You and then invite any class to substitute for you and see if the group's DPS can come close.
That's not really the argument. The argument is if War/3 rogues/enh shaman + say, a resto druid healing, is > than War/3 rogues/resto shaman + say, an affliction warlock dotting. You are trading a resto shaman for a resto druid, and an enh shaman for an affliction warlock.

Shamans are obviously amazing for melees groups, enh shamans it is a bit harder to clearly establish.

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Old 05/28/07, 8:41 AM   #8
Flr
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mazrigos (EU)
Originally Posted by Mearis View Post
Figure that the tipical melee group is 2 rogues, 2 warrior, 1 shaman or 3 rogues, 1 warrior. Check how much AP is added by your totems, there are plenty of useful spreadsheets on this board, and verify the contributions that are due specifically to unleashed rage, and enhanced totems, since you can add a basic windfury totem+strength of earth totem as a restoration shaman.
Atm im going through different class dps spreadsheets and trying to figure that out. And im sorry for making this kind of topic with no numbers or anything to give.


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Old 05/28/07, 10:17 AM   #9
Malan
Mike Tyson
 
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Flr View Post
Atm im going through different class dps spreadsheets and trying to figure that out. And im sorry for making this kind of topic with no numbers or anything to give.
You can figure this all out on your own and all its going to cost you is some time and money.

Get a melee group together, a warrior and some rogues, maybe a feral druid, from your raid and take them all down to the blasted lands. Have them go nuts on the invincible mobs there and record their DPS using a damage meter of some sort. Then go spec enhance and record them again. Show those numbers to your raid.

The other aspect of your problem is kind of the social issue of it - why the heck are your warriors/rogues not screaming in protest over losing UR and the talented totems?

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Old 05/28/07, 10:55 AM   #10
Zerakor
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Kazzak (EU)
The synergy coming from a enh shaman warrior (druid/rogue) rogue rogue is unmatched, just tell your GM this and you should be fine.
You shouldn't even need extensive math to make him understand that.

On a second note, did you update your offhand to match the recent changes?

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Old 05/28/07, 11:26 AM   #11
Flr
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Mazrigos (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
The other aspect of your problem is kind of the social issue of it - why the heck are your warriors/rogues not screaming in protest over losing UR and the talented totems?
Yeah kinda, but in my guild warlocks, spriests and mages are doing sick dmg ofc some encounters are differen't but this is exactly the situation that Mearis was talking about:

Originally Posted by Mearis View Post
That's not really the argument. The argument is if War/3 rogues/enh shaman + say, a resto druid healing, is > than War/3 rogues/resto shaman + say, an affliction warlock dotting. You are trading a resto shaman for a resto druid, and an enh shaman for an affliction warlock.

Originally Posted by Zerakor View Post
On a second note, did you update your offhand to match the recent changes?
Still struggling with runic hammer bcs al'ar didn't drop Netherbane but im getting enough arena points so I can buy on Gladiator's Cleaver wednesday.


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Old 05/28/07, 12:33 PM   #12
Nite_Moogle
I prefer the term treasure hunting
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
One of the most convincing arguments is to show how much AP is gained from Unleashed Rage for the group. With the consumable changes, it's almost certain that UR will provide more AP than any consumables the group has, and it will augment the power of any they do use.

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Old 05/28/07, 3:25 PM   #13
Graul
King Hippo
 
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Orc Warrior
 
Fenris
Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle View Post
One of the most convincing arguments is to show how much AP is gained from Unleashed Rage for the group. With the consumable changes, it's almost certain that UR will provide more AP than any consumables the group has, and it will augment the power of any they do use.
I don't see how the nerf to consumables makes UR better or worse. It does the same thing it did before. It was always good, and in my opinion better when you could buff AP higher from consumables, and it's still good now. You are just gaining "more" AP in comparison to prepatch, because you cannot self buff as high, but it's still 10% of your total AP, which it always was.

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Old 05/28/07, 6:23 PM   #14
Igniter
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
<AHH>
Ner'zhul
More often than not, when hybrids are asked to spec holy/resto it is because you are short on healers, not because a hybrids tends to be dead weight on a raid. Tipically, enh shaman DPS for my guild is not anything spectacular, I have never seen a shaman come close to Sebudai, but the added synergy makes it worth it.
This is the case for me, except I've been one of the core healers with 100% attendance since MC, so the benifits of me spec'ing enh like I want to vs. a solid healer aren't there. Whats even worse, my guild knows how good enh is to.

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Old 05/28/07, 6:50 PM   #15
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
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Originally Posted by Graul View Post
I don't see how the nerf to consumables makes UR better or worse. It does the same thing it did before.
Because now its the only source of an increase you can give the group. If your melee aren't quite putting out enough DPS you can't tell them to go farm a couple more elixirs to stack, but you *can* put an enhance shaman in their group and give them a 10% bonus AP. Its "better" post patch not because it changed, but because consumables did. Nights that the shaman doesn't show up for the raid cannot be compensated for by just throwing on some more consumables.

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