Hi, I would like to get some calculations about enhancement shamans group buffs and damage versus some other dps class. Which one is better for over all raid dps? bcs atm I'm in a situation that my guilds GM is forcing me to spec resto by telling me that my buffs to group doesn't outweight the damage "fix" I got in 2.1. So please can you help me do some math.

Improved battleshout from the Fury tree is the only buff available to a melee group that is greater than a talented Strength of Earth totem, and when you add Unleashed rage to that, there is no buff or elixir/flask in the game anymore that adds as much AP to a melee group as an enhancement shaman.

For future reference though, asking anyone here to just spout out some magical calculations for you to go back to prove something with isn't going to get you very far. Do what you can on your own, post showing it (and in an appropriate existing thread if possible) and ask for specific help regarding what you don't understand. Broad sweeping questions like yours above do not go over well.

My GM and Raid Leader will have to pry my shaman from my cold dead fingers.

If they did nothing more than drop totems and /dance, they are adding enough value to the dps warrior, rogue, rogue, rogue group that they're in to justify a place.

I'll try and get some actual numbers for you on our next tank and spank, but I have the mages and warlocks crying salty tears of QQ about my increased DPS. Hmmm, salty warlock tears.

Of course, if you're short of healing, then spec resto for a while, or find a guild that will appreciate your buffs.

(PS: Our guild gets on very well, we do compete very hard on the DPS charts and there is real min/max competition going on between the rogues/casters and DPS warrior for top dog.)

How about comparing rogues damage with normal shaman totems and whitout unleashed rage and with imp. enhancing totems, unleashed rage and imp. weapon totems.

Strength of Earth Totem: 86 str untalented 98 str talented.
Windfury Totem: +445 ap to extra attack untalented 578 ap talented.

Are you ignoring everything that people are telling you?

More often than not, when hybrids are asked to spec holy/resto it is because you are short on healers, not because a hybrids tends to be dead weight on a raid. Tipically, enh shaman DPS for my guild is not anything spectacular, I have never seen a shaman come close to Sebudai, but the added synergy makes it worth it.

Figure that the tipical melee group is 2 rogues, 2 warrior, 1 shaman or 3 rogues, 1 warrior. Check how much AP is added by your totems, there are plenty of useful spreadsheets on this board, and verify the contributions that are due specifically to unleashed rage, and enhanced totems, since you can add a basic windfury totem+strength of earth totem as a restoration shaman.

I'm sorry you have a hard-head for a raid leader. If he doesn't already understand that no other class/spec can give 10% AP boost to 4 other people, while also putting out solid dps itself, I don't think there's anything you can do to convince him.

Try running a test. Parse War/3xRogue/You and then invite any class to substitute for you and see if the group's DPS can come close.

Atm im going through different class dps spreadsheets and trying to figure that out. And im sorry for making this kind of topic with no numbers or anything to give.

You can figure this all out on your own and all its going to cost you is some time and money.

Get a melee group together, a warrior and some rogues, maybe a feral druid, from your raid and take them all down to the blasted lands. Have them go nuts on the invincible mobs there and record their DPS using a damage meter of some sort. Then go spec enhance and record them again. Show those numbers to your raid.

The other aspect of your problem is kind of the social issue of it - why the heck are your warriors/rogues not screaming in protest over losing UR and the talented totems?

The synergy coming from a enh shaman warrior (druid/rogue) rogue rogue is unmatched, just tell your GM this and you should be fine.
You shouldn't even need extensive math to make him understand that.

On a second note, did you update your offhand to match the recent changes?

Yeah kinda, but in my guild warlocks, spriests and mages are doing sick dmg ofc some encounters are differen't but this is exactly the situation that Mearis was talking about:


Still struggling with runic hammer bcs al'ar didn't drop Netherbane but im getting enough arena points so I can buy on Gladiator's Cleaver wednesday.

One of the most convincing arguments is to show how much AP is gained from Unleashed Rage for the group. With the consumable changes, it's almost certain that UR will provide more AP than any consumables the group has, and it will augment the power of any they do use.

This is the case for me, except I've been one of the core healers with 100% attendance since MC, so the benifits of me spec'ing enh like I want to vs. a solid healer aren't there. Whats even worse, my guild knows how good enh is to.

Because now its the only source of an increase you can give the group. If your melee aren't quite putting out enough DPS you can't tell them to go farm a couple more elixirs to stack, but you *can* put an enhance shaman in their group and give them a 10% bonus AP. Its "better" post patch not because it changed, but because consumables did. Nights that the shaman doesn't show up for the raid cannot be compensated for by just throwing on some more consumables.

This is a great way of looking at the question, because it gets to the heart of why enhancement shamans are great in a raid despite not being optimal on their own. You can't compare these classes in isolation, because part of what determines their capability is where they fit in the jigsaw of the 25 man group.

You are really comparing "enhancement shaman in melee group" to "resto shaman in melee group"; in the latter case you may only lose 10% ap on the four other people in the melee group, but you're also wasting 1/5 of the dps synergy that group is capable of. Simultaneously, the resto shaman trapped in the melee group is missing out on things like wrath of air, shadow priest mana batteryness, and he's also likely completely wasting mana tide totem, unless you're careful with swaps.

Well we always have an Enhancement Shaman, so I still do not see how the consumable change makes it any better or worse than before. You could gain an additional 50 or so AP with UR prepatch fully buffed, less now. You just notice it more now when the Shaman is not in the group or dead, but as I said, we always have one. UR was always better for the group than consumables anyway, with the exception of a Flask of Relentless Assault unless your AP was ridiculously low even with SoE and BoS.

I think the point Malan was trying to make is that before you could get better buffs than UR through stacking elixirs and flasks. Flasks of Relentless Assault specifically made UR rather obsolete, even though they worked well together. That's no longer an option, so it increases the value of having an enh shaman in melee groups.

If you think about it in terms of enrage fights, you basically need to maintain a certain DPS for the whole fight. Before the consumable nerf, you could put a 5th rogue/melee in a group and have everyone stack elixirs and flasks to make up the difference. If you had an enhancement shaman it was just icing on the cake. Now you need UR and talented totems to achieve maximum dps.

Also, for our melee groups UR was giving an extra 150+ AP. It's 10% of AP, so I'm not sure where you were getting the 50 AP value from. It was slightly better than a fel strength elixir but way worse than a flask. Now it's greater than flasks, and it still stacks with them. It's a great time to be an enhancement shaman!

They can't. This was one of the major topics for the 'What improvements you would like to see for shaman in 2.1' thread. Totems being on the global cooldown sometimes cause healers to be late on heals. And as resto healing is always a higher priority than totem buffs, with the exception of the occasional manatide drop.

As enhancement I always have about 2 or 3 chances to redrop totems every SS cycle, and it's really nice to have that flexibility.

Flask of Relentless Assault 360 AP
Fel Strength Elixir 90 AP
Elixir of Major Strength 70 AP

That's 520 AP, or 572 for a Warrior with Imp Berserk Stance. 57 AP from UR.
Now you get 12, 9 and 7 respectively as a Warrior, less AP from Str as a Rogue. Fully buffed prepatch (the above buffs, with Battle Shout, Food, BoM and SoE) I gained 137 AP from buffs and another 170 from my unbuffed AP for a total of 307, then there is also the random Hourglass proc as well as the Bloodlust Brooch activation. Now I get 105 from buffs and 180 from my unbuffed for 285, so my initial value of UR prepatch was overvalued because I wasn't considering AP from gear, just buffs.

Still, from my point of view, skewed as it may be, it was always a great ability, pre and post patch. I suppose your milage is going to vary based on which class you are and how much AP you actually get per str or AP point before the 10% bonus.

In a melee group with a Feral Druid and a Warrior, our Enhancement Shamans routinely place in the top 5-7 on any melee friendly fight, sometimes higher. Add in their buff contribution and they have to be doing at the very least Rogue damage. Windfury is probably the second biggest boost after UR, if not equal to or surpassing it depending on what weapon you are using, especially for non dagger Combat Rogues and Warriors.

Enhancement shaman get a lot of mileage out of battle shout and LOTP. Resto shaman get nothing from those buffs.

Enhancement shaman improve my DPS by 5-10% compared to a non-enhancement shaman, but for me the real dealbreaker is that they GET as well as GIVE synergy and I'd rather put my resto shaman in with a shadow priest.

Seeing damage meters it's pretty clear that enhancement shaman are well worth their melee DPS spot. They simply add too much damage to warriors and rogues (and a decent amount to cats) to ignore.

@Graul

5-7 seems high to me, (fight dependant) both rogues and dps warrior are always above me, 4 warlocks, so the highest i can achieve is 8th, again this depends on the fight and whether the mages can actually do damage. i also havent mentioned Hunters who since the patch are considerably better placed, they also seem to be top 5 material now.

Pre patch top 5 was almost a certainty, do you mean since 2.1 and the WF fix or before that?

One of our Shamans placed 4th on our first Mag kill, which was after the patch. I suppose that is not a very good fight to use as a meter though, because he wasn't on cube duty, and was 200k+ below me. He placed 5th on our last Kazzak, and 4th on the trash clearing from Hydross to Tidewalker. Tonight will be a better guage barring no deaths. Last week was kind of fubar for us with the server resets and login issues.

Argh, sorry, wrong Enhancement Shaman thread. Apologies, delete as necessary.