shed

And I cant wait until we hit lvl 80 and all our hit/crit gets gimped to the point where we cant generate enough rage to do decent DPS.

 

Mardraum

Why, do you log out in your execute phase weapons? and don't call me shirley.

 

cainor

Could you please explain that a little bit more in detail? When do i have to hit to proc out the intended wf?

 

Thikkor

I believe he means to BT right after a windfury proc (which is completely random). If I get this right, he's trying to get the attack power bonus from improved windfury totem to apply to the BT if you time it correctly, dealing quite a bit of extra damage.

Shed: Haha! Well, as long as they dont bring 360 cleaves again.

 

Calgar

Quick question, does anyone know at what point Solarian Sapphire can be replaced? Assuming my standard dps group is rogue/rogue/ret/enhancement/Arms warrior (me). Short of digging through spread sheets and figuring out how much dps the 87.5 AP is worth and comparing it to the DPS i would gain from a proper second trinket (Like MotB, DST or something similar) has anyone worked this out already? Or am i doomed to be the battle shout bot until the end of time itself?

 

DarthGreg

[Solarian's Sapphire] is unfortunately not replaceable by any trinket in-game from a standpoint of raid damage (as long as you're in the melee group).

 

manglemangle

How can this be? After an initial flurry procs, if your swing times are slower you have more time during that given flurry to use instant attacks that can crit and refresh. It seems over the course of a fight this added time would increase flurry uptime by a few percentages. Am I way off base here?

 

• landsoul

This is correct. The flurry uptime model is a biproduct calculation of instants as well as white attacks. However, I think he might be thinking of the simplified version of the 1 - (1-c)^{3,4} which runs off white attacks only. In this case it does not matter what the speeds are of the weapons, unless you are trying to used synced speeds which can change the hits per flurry number more towards four and away from three.

The real calculation looks more like: 1 - ((1-c)^{3,4} * (1-c)^X)) where X is the total special attacks per average flurry duration. X becomes larger as the weapons become slower, naturally increasing the flurry uptime percent.

 

Shha

In fact its semi-replacable.

1) Count how many players really benefit from it in your group. For example a cat druid gets maybe half the benefit of it then a rogue. A hunter gets really low benefit etc. A tanking druid - well that depends if there are threat problems or not on the encounter. In general vs DsT (my dilemma), it seems that group needs 3.5 "points" for the trinket to be better - Counting Warriors/Rogues/Ret/Enh as 1 point and feral tanks/hunters as 0 (see a note above), and feral dps as 0.5. YOU count as a warrior of course. That means with most setups yea Solarian is best. However

2) Remember that you can switch trinkets. With our brutallus kills being well below 5 mins now, switching trinkets becomes much better option. Shout with Solarian then switch it off. This means you wont get the benefit of it, but your party will - for almost 50% of the time. With our group being : Feral Tank, Enh .War(me),Rogue .Rogue/Ret it means that the switch basically gives 3x0.5 = 1.5 "points". while keeping SS on gives 4. 2.5 Difference with this scheme is not enough to keep SS on. So I do switch it for the fight.

3) A lot of fights with ~1 min dps time like felmyst and to an extent Kalecgos, do favor DsT due to timing and hidden cooldowns.

4) on fights like M'uru, SS is unmatched.

5) Reverse Twins is even more then brutallus prefered to use switching - entire "hard" phase where your dps actually matters is covered by initial BS.

 

Katrael

Thinking about it, I think Solarian's will be less replaceable in Wrath than it is now. Figuring that bshout will be raid wide, that means that it will apply to ever tank/hunter pet/melee DPS in the raid. Even figuring that there will be much better trinkets, providing 87AP to that many other raiders seems like it would outweigh another trinket on all but very short encounters.

 

• Mjollnir

It will be fully replaceable. Blizzard will not let a sole trinket govern an entire class/spec, especially if said trinket is from old content. Additionally, 87AP at 80 will be rather inconsequential.

 

Shha

Well it will be more powerful with this scaling then its now, but Blizzard is known to nerf such stuff (like T2 bonuses for healers etc). So I'm pretty sure they will rended SS useless in WOTLK. Whether they will place other items affecting shouts is unknown - but they will probably be weaker if shouts are made global.

 

dr_AllCOM3

It is something between 3 and 4 in reality. Much more complex, since a swing can be hasted midswing. You don't loose a full swing of maybe your mainhand that way, you just have like 0.5s of unhasted swingtime sometimes.
So in the end you take the weapon with the better stats, unless they have the same. Then you take the slow one (PvP weapons), just because of that little whirlwind bonus.

 

Shha

Yea speed is largely irrelevant now. If there was a good MH with fast speed i would use it too. Actually fast Mh boost is even a bit more then oh (the vague "more smooth rage generation"). Heroic strikes with fast weapons are more effective (cheaper), which actually makes up for the 10-15 dps from lower WW.

 

cainor

Well, since Windfury is random, it would ruin the rotation if you wait for it to proc to hit in the Bloodthirst applied with the bonus wouldnt it?

 

• Mjollnir

Yes, and no. It proccing is random, but timing a BT just after a heroic isn't. You're setting yourself up for the bonus AP *if* WF procs. It's not much, but in a world of nickels and dimes, it's a boost.
Every 5 MH swings will proc 1 WF. At high gear levels all (or nearly) will be heroic strikes, so the only off-chance of not proccing WF would be through a dodge. According to the law of averages, a 2.0 spd weapon will swing 3x inside of a single BT cd, meaning you will proc 3/5 of a WF. Time the BT just after and gain yourself a substantial boost to your BT value (furthered with 4pc t6).

 

Amorpheus

Even if you can say that it's "only" 87AP, adding it to significantly more people will cancel out scaling. Remember that WOTLK will have somewhat more melee oriented raids due to Death Knights.

"You are better than I am," Inigo admitted.
"So it seems. But if that is true, then why are you smiling?"
"Because," Inigo answered, "I know something you don't know."
"And what is that?" asked the man in black.
"I'm not left-handed."

 

Ren

Looking at what they've done with pre-BC items, Blizzard clearly doesn't want trinkets from old content to have any sort of relevancy. I have a feeling that the sapphire will get nerfed into the ground at some point during Wrath.

 

Hiney

I started doing the same thing. I had originally read the "55 rage or more" deal, and took that as law, but after just doing bt raids I found it to be silly. So many times I can simply spam strike with bt/ww on cooldown, not really pay extremely careful attention to my rage, and still have no issues. This is generally because even if I have only 10 or so rage a second or two before bt/ww come off of cooldown, it only takes that amount of time to generate that rage. With Windfury and incoming damage generating rage is extremely simple for me, at least. I do tend to get threat capped a lot, but it's usually only on Teron (unless our pally is tanking, which is a rarity) and RoS from spamming more heroic strikes, but overall it's a dps increase straight up. We haven't hit up SWP yet, having finally polished off Illidan a couple weeks back, and due to other guild issues I haven't been able to test and see how it'll affect me in there, but I imagine it's going to be hardly different.

 

• Mjollnir

This is pure speculation. Just because another [melee] class is introduced, means nothing in the way of the number of raid slots available, the breakdown of those slots, and how raid leaders organize their raids.
Again, 87AP at 80 will either be insignificant [raid wide], the item will get nerfed, or door number 3, with whatever it may hold. Regardless, Blizzard will not let a 2nd tier BC trinket define an entire class/spec.

 

shed

I bet we'll see a green quest reward that will provide almost the same buff.

 

Morsexy

And here is hoping that it provides something useful like +crit or +hit instead of stamina.

 

DarthGreg

I'm more or less obsessive when it comes to min/maxing, so when I saw the Fury Imp. Slam variant build being discussed I had to jump on it. My gear level is a bit low, but when the RNG smiles on me I've seen what it can do. I like being different than other Fury Warriors, but I'm not convinced of the build's general practicality. It seems to be limited in application by movement-intensive fights, haste effects, and the fact that it is a strict DPS decrease during Execute phase.

The more time I spend running around and concentrating on the fight rather than my personal DPS cycle, the fewer Slams I can fit in and the lower my DPS goes relative to cookie-cutter Fury. Do those of you who have had success with this build use it only for specific fights, like Brutallus or Gorefiend, or have you found generalized success with it? If so, can you offer any tips?

Furthermore, do you alter your gear and/or consumables to favor other effects over haste? I use a DST (don't have a replacement for it), usually pack [Haste Potion]s, get Bloodlusts and Drums, and the combined effect of these often gets my swing-time down to 1.5s and below, making Slamming pretty silly. If these haste effects are prevalent enough, doesn't the point of bringing Imp. Slam diminish significantly?

Any advice is appreciated.

 

• landsoul

The variant is feasable, but it is a huge pain in the butt for a slim margin. I tested it on servant mobs and I had a very small gain. I would highly doubt though I'd see this gain vs a boss due to glancing blows since I am having to use some HS rage for my slam macro. Maybe if I had more rage gen.... I havent tried it on Brut yet, for the reason we only killed him for the first time last week. I think I'm going to try it eventually though since I got some huge upgrades.

 

Jevade

Hey i figured id ask my question here since it is a more active thread:

Landsoul(or anyone else),

What exactly is added when you select the 2 bonus from warglaives in raid options? The full 450 haste and the AP bonus to demons?? The haste proc is up like wut 15% of the time ---is that taking into effect when displaying the set bonus?? OR is The DPS gain shown including the full haste effect and the AP bonus refering to ONLY the 10 second proc duration?

Also does anyone know if you can swap the glaives out once the proc is triggered and and keep the buff??? PLZ?
thanks kindly,
Jev