Lanuran

This is the question i have been facing for quite some time.

For a Raiding Resto Spec

To spec 30-0-31
or
To spec some form of 41 resto


Pros of 30-0-31
- ~50MP/5 at least raid buffed
- out of raid ability to grind mats/quests quickly(of small note since this is ment to be purely a raiding build)


Pros of 41 Resto
- Earthshield
- ~150 dmg/healing raid buffed
- imp chain heal



Thats pretty much how it goes. Increase your MP/5 by about 30%, or have earthshield, imp chain heal, and have your +healing increase by 10%(not even)

the way i see it is that MP/5 is my most valuable stat. That is my key to not running OOM while other healers are still casting. In my eyes 1mp/5 > 3 healing. The only question to me is if chain heal(albeit only 20% increase) along with E-shield is the deal breaker and worth it for a resto shaman.

I agree that earthshield is a very effective tool but in general the amount of "sting" it takes off a tank for throwing it up for 1k mana doesn't really justify how it practically always just translates into Overheal due to healers precasting large enough heals.

Thoughts?

the ideal spec i see for 30/0/31 while being able to grind very well out of raids is
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hxcuA00qmZZE00tVcot

possible more raid focus'd hybrid spec, 25-0-36
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GxcuA00VZZEb0zAjot0o

The possibilities are pretty much endless even though many of the hybrid builds are "ugly" since they skip certain talents

 

mcderf

As a raid healer, i've taken the stance that I need to be 41+ in resto to do my job well. Under extremely limited conditions, I will never dps on a raid (unless things are slow and we are just grinding trash - with limited needs from any party member at this point other than backstabbing lvl 1 snakes to up DM listings lol).

When considering extreme conditions, imp LB does nothing for me when the MT is taking 5K dmg, or the melee group is taking AOE dmg - Situations that immediately improve with the said additional points in the resto tree. Ultimately raiding success is significantly improved if you can keep everyone alive for long enough. If you can't you're going to wipe regardless.

That said, i've reduced the importance of mp/5 because even as a secondary healer, i rarely spend enough time out of the 5SR to constitute any major buildup of mana. If I can get +90 mp per tic, i am happy as with Mana tide i can get a quick burst of mana if needed.

EDIT: earthshield is amazing regardless - decient gear gives you +600 healing per tic. Even on trash pulls this means that you just gained +6000 heal points "for free" if you cast it before combat and use mage water. On boss fights, every hp counts in my book.

As a raid healer I have accepted my fate of being unable to avoid gulping mana pots on long/difficult fights. Additional mp/5 just says you MAY do it less often - assuming you actually have time to spend out of the 5SR. In conjunction with 2.1 super mana pot mats are much more affordable these days.

Regarding +dmg, I've created a double gatherer alt to do some low lvl farming for my gold needs. Not an answer for everyone, but its pretty easy to lvl up to 40 and just sell everything you can farm/grind. I can also grind on my main with a guild member. We are a raiding guild and like to do instances!

This is how I view being a resto shammy. If you do less raiding, perhaps a more hybrid talent allocation is an option. Hope this helps!

 

Hamilburg

I get the impression that you misunderstand how MP5 and the 5SR interact... or if you do have it right, your point is not coming across clearly to me here.

 

subscience

The ES heal triggers immediately after taking damage, so unless the damage done is less than the healing triggered, it will nearly never overheal. Also, remember that you can downrank ES with no +heal penalty.

I have mediocre gear (only 1 SSC piece thus far) and I can break 160 MP/5 unbuffed and break 250 MP/5 easily in raids, without Shadow Priests. If mana really is a concern, I can chain Mana Potions.

Finally, Improved Chain Heal and Nature's Gaurdian are amazing talents. CH is a staple spell in nearly all raids and R1 CH + ICH = mind-blowing efficiency. NG is great in the fact that nearly no mobs (aside from raid bosses) will outright 1-shot me, but definitely will bring me below 30%. The heal from NG is more or less negligible at that level, but it's threat reducing component has saved my life more times than I can imagine (it saved me countless times on Hydross when the adds got loose-- doubly so for any Heroic instances).

I never nuke in raids and the points in Elemental leading up to Unrelenting Storm are wasted for me. However, I love 19/0/42 for Arenas.

 

mcderf

Not sure... my thoughts are that mp5 is your base and inside the 5SR your total mp5 gets reduced by a %. In practice i average around +20 mp/t in the 5SR and +90 mp/t outside. To note, my logic is based around the fact that +20mp does nothing for me as I spend more time than not in the 5SR. Why try to max out my +mp5 if it is, more times than not, being reduced by a significant amount.

 

Trippy

I read this three times and I'm still not sure what it means.

MP/5 means that if you have 90 mp/5, you will gain 90 mana every 5 seconds, regardless of the 5SR. However, if you are outside the 5SR, you will gain additional ticks from your Spirit along with the MP/5.

 

Lanuran

i do have to say that i have been raiding with the above 30-0-31 spec for quite a bit.
I didn't find it much, if not at all, harder to to heal than full resto. In addition, i found it more of a relief that i had the addition MP/5 while chain chugging Mana pots and demonic runing that i could go overboard a little more on healing without going oom. This isn't to say that i had a surplus of mana at any time, it only allowed me to spend it quicker than i would normally without fear of going oom because of it. Allowing me to overextend my healing further than a full resto build would allow.

It may only be my situation but since my guild(on hydross currently, downed him pre-patch by keeping him in NR phase and is now having trouble doing the fight as is) is having trouble overall keeping people up through fights(either stupid DPS errors like triple chaining frost tomb by mages/warlocks or tanks not getting the heals they needed while switching) i find myself overextending to pick up the slack.


I do have to say that the idea of down ranking earthshields never occured to me thanks for the tip.

 

scrub

I use 0/5/56 for raiding. This spec also alows me to heal extremely well in arenas as i'm practically uniteruptable.

I toyed with the idea of a hybrid spec but decided it would basicaly leave me gimped at damage and gimped at healing. I just respec to enhancement to grind for gold, I can easily make 50g to spec from daily quests I don't see it as that big a waste.

To me improved chain heal is a must have, as the spell heals for a weak amount without it. Ancestral healing is also great, it stacks with the priest version and I can spam a low rank heal for procs when the tank main tank is being stabaly kept up.

Earthshield is great in arena, I can out heal a rogue nuking me with it on and in PvE it can provide a break that allows me to get a big heal off or get a heal on another group member.

 

Lanuran

well, the dilema wasn't about PVP. i understand earthshield rocks there. It was mainly for usefulness in raids, and i do note your point of "imp chain heal". it IS possible to get 1/2 in imp chain heal while getting 50MP/5 from Elemental. Is 1 point in imp chain heal and earthshield really that much a difference in raiding? i don't know

 

Crazytrucker

Currently I am spec'd 0/5/56. I believe that although you will get the main 50mp/5 in elemental, your loosing out on upgrading your most efficent heal. This seems like healer suicide. Chain heal is the most effective on HPM and because of its uniqueness it will smart heal. Out of the 6 fights in ssc I use chain heal as my main heal on 5/6 (Only attempted Vashj but I think it can count?). Only fight I don't is on Tidewalker because I was on water tombs. Chain heal is amazing, I can't say that enough.

Edit: The one other thing I have to say is as you get better gear fights just get so much easier including new encounters. I'm usually in the rogue/caster groups 99% of the time and for all fights in SSC (cept leo when i have to kill my shade and dump half my mana) and mana is usually not to big of an issue. I do focus towards heavy mp5 set, but I think that your spec now could prove very viable. But as I said again once MP5 stops slowing you down the best talent to increase your healing Imp Chain Heal is a good option.

 

desertswarm

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GAcuV00VZZE00tVjot0o

Like this one? It is an interesting idea but you cant get the +heal bonus and the +mp5 bonus with Imp CH.

I think ES, the +heal bonus, imp CH are far more valuable than 50mp5 and the raiding wasted talents to get to 50mp5.

 

Crawk

Many good arguments have been already hashed out in the thread. The one I'd toss in there is that even discounting its usefulness on the tank, being able to cast it on myself and guarantee no spell pushbacks in the face of splash damage or something taking a swing at me is something I can't give up either.

But really, regarding the meat of the argument (mp5 versus Earth Shield): what is the most common case of your wipe? Are you wiping because you went OOM? I would say that in most cases, unless something else went horribly wrong and you're stretching the fight... you probably didn't. ES and stronger chain heals help smooth things out raidwide more than me having a slightly bigger blue bar.

For fights where mana is taxed, you can structure your raid and decisions around it (more mp5 consumables, put em with a Shadow Priest, be super-religious about keeping Mana Spring down, chain-pot, etc). You can adjust for mana-intensity, but you can't drink a pot and get Earth Shield.

 

• Erongg

Did this change recently? It has never stacked in the past. It does stack with Imp LoH though.

Also, Chain Heal is insanely good so you need to buff it any way you can. Screw mp5 - you will have about 100 mp5 from gear, then get 100 mp5 (or 140 for alchemists) with mana pots and 25 mp5 with a flask, plus oil, fish, Mana Spring and Mana Tide. However, there's no way to match the much bigger Chain Heal output that the two talents at the end of the Resto tree give you. It all comes down to the fact that Chain Heal is insanely good.

Finite Simple Group of Order Two

 

◊ Praetorian

8/0/53 and I've never seriously considered changing. I can't think of a better raid healing spec, and I'm top 3 in effective healing on basically any fight in the game, usually without a shadow priest, and #1 pretty much guaranteed if I do have a shadow priest.

The boost to heal volume and HPM from Imp Chain Heal is incredible. You bring resto shamans as healers largely for chain heal -- it's our defining spell.

Is some form of elem/resto hybrid viable? Sure. But all the good stuff in resto is 35+ points deep. You may as well be a 40/0/21 who gears for nuking or healing depending on the fight if you're going to go that far.

 

Jeht

I believe improved Chain Heal and Earth Shield are two must have talents for any raiding or heroic running shaman. Chain Heals worth probably doesn't need to be explained, because I think pretty much everyone agrees it is the boss of healing AOE damage. Earth Shield, man I can't even imagine trying to raid shit without it. Keeping it on the tank is just the tip of the ice berg. Unavoidable AOE hitting the whole raid? Toss it on yourself to you can Chain Heal more. AOE pull? Toss it on a mage. Boss with a DMG aura or cleave? Toss it on a melee DPS. I rarely refresh it during fights if all I'm doing is healing the MT, but I definitely keep it up on any fight where healing is going to be interrupted for any period of time (Maiden and Gruul immediately come to mind.) When I do Maulgar I toss it on the priest tank and it's practically all the healing he needs. When I do Mag, I toss it on 4th add tank to help conserve mana during the first 3 pulls.

Hot damn EARTH SHIELD! Best 41 point talent in the game.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

Yeah, boosting chain heal seems key to me. I try to make good use of my hots to heal the raid but the yellow lasers almost always beat me.

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

 

tedv

You've always been able to have both Inspiration and Ancestral Fortitude buffs on you, but they never gave a total of +50% armor. It was still just 25% for both. I don't believe this behavior has changed at all.

That said, even if it doesn't stack with Inspiration, it's still one more opportunity to give the tank 25% more armor. And Chain Heal + Ancestral Fortitude is amazing, since you're giving armor to three people who've proved they were likely to get hit. You could do a lot worse for 3 talent points.

 

◊ Praetorian

Gone are the days of fights where it's just one dude taking damage. And usually the people taking damage are going to be relatively clumped up, so chain heal shines.

On Gruul, use it on melee for cave-in and Shatter damage.
On Magtheridon, it's handy for shadow bolt volley damage, but not that useful after that.
On Hydross, use it at the start of each phase to bounce among all the add tanks and MT. Also on Water Tomb.
On Morogrim, top off people after Earthquake.
On Lurker, use on DPS after a Geyser/Whirl, or to top off people on a platform dealing with an Ambusher.
On Karathress, use on people taking Spitfire/Water Bolt damage.
On Leotheras, not that useful but still good for Whirlwinded melee.
On Vashj, good for topping melee off after someone got Static Charge near her, and for Forked Lightning healing.
On Al'ar, bounce it all over after Flame Buffets occur on transitions.
Void Reaver couldn't have been better made for Chain Heal.
On Solarian, use it after her AoE and on the Agent stack.

It speaks for itself, really.

 

• Binkenstein

In terms of raiding, if you have 5 points in Ancestral Knowledge then you're wasting points imo.
I have three myself, but that's only because I don't think Nature's Guardian is of any use to me.

Also, I don't think there's really any space for hybrid builds in raid environments these days. Either spec full elemental, or full resto.

Also, note that Purification affects your heals after +heal, and that Healing Way comes in after this as well. With the recent fix to HW, I'm now getting ~5.2k heals with a full stack & ~1700 heal.

 

Nite_Moogle

Chain Heal is the reason I switched back to a Shaman after playing a Paladin. I simply could not stand only having single target heals. Either Gurg's spec or 0/11/50 are outstanding specs at any level of gear.

 

• Binkenstein

Actually, now that I do some calculations, Totemic Focus does seem to be a waste of points.
25% reduction = saving 0.68 mp5 per totem on average.

Time to give that talent the boot.

The question is: elemental warding vs nature's guardian. Decisions decisions.
(currently @ http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=GZZEf0tAestcd )

 

Ghando

I like Elemental Warding but I find it precludes having EVERYTHING I want in the Resto tree. I'm 0/5/56 right now, and while I also love Improved Ghost Wolf (and the points in Healing Focus, and to a lesser extent Tidal Mastery are negotiable) I also like Focused Mind. It's mostly a PvP talent but there are a number of trash mobs (and Gruul!) who have silences. There are also a number of Heroic mobs with interrupts, and my groups/tanks have been saved a number of times by Focused Mind coming up huge. Elemental Warding is more reliable, I just chalk it up to playstyle. As for Nature's Guardian, I thought it sucked (from the tooltip) until I did some testing, and now I really like it. It procs off DOT ticks, if you're DOTed at low health you're practically guaranteed a proc. It takes Purification, scales with gear...it's just a good talent, though at 5 points that deep in the tree I can see why some have reservations.

As for hybrid builds, I think 30/0/31 is an overrated travesty. You have to make so many compromises in both trees that you end up short-changing yourself at any role you pick. I raided as a 36/0/25 spec for a long time after BC came out, and depending on how you spend your time in-game it can work out really well. With a hybrid spec you REALLY have to make sure all your talent points are paying big dividends, and 30/0/31 just forces you to spend points where you don't want to (Improved Restorative Totems or whatever it's called) and skip things you DO really want (Storm Reach, Elemental Precision, can't have 5/5 of both Unrelenting Storm and Lightning Mastery unless you are insane and don't spec Elemental Fury). Ultimately, you're trading a TON of healing viability (Purification, Imp. Chain Heal, the list goes on) for some mediocre DPS and Unrelenting Storm. Maybe that's okay with you, but it just wasn't enough for me once we were into SSC.

 

Smoker

0/0/61, or 0/5/56, or 8/0/53 is the only pure healing speccs, I am myself 61 restoration, simply because I prefer cheaper heals/totem more then 5% more mana(aka 500 more mana)

I mean, why specc 0/11/50? not like you will use a 2hander in pve, I suggest gathering elemental gear if you want to farm as elemental!

 

◊ Rob

Hi Lanuran!

Content:
Are you getting put with a shadow priest? If so, is mana really a constant issue? Flasked? If not, why aren't you getting grouped with a shadow priest?

 

◊ Praetorian

Because shamans are needed in melee groups first and foremost.

If you have an enhancement shaman, great! If not, then welcome to OOMville. I used 18 Super Mana potions in one evening of raiding yesterday, for example. I'd love to give myself a shadow priest, but I can't justify it when it'd mean leaving a melee group totemless.