Faldirk

No, that was fixed in 2.1 I believe. Currently the Owl is bugged and does not usually provide 900 mana. My typical return on it is 10 ticks for 750. This is slated to be fixed in 2.2.

Even in its bugged state I value it over the Pendant of the Violet Eye or most other trinkets. Edit: To better answer the question. I know you're not asking me specifically, but I wouldn't level up JC for the Owl as a trinket, but it is a nice side benefit.

 

Fola

Is it generally agreed upon though that the Alchemist stone is head and shoulders above the best in slot item in game for Shaman Resto atm?

 

Reservoirdog

If by best slot item you mean best item available outside of raiding I would tend to agree. But likewise with the owl, there are plenty of worthy trinkets for resto shamans which makes changing your trade skills solely for the purpose of getting the stone is unpractical. Also figure that if you plan on progressing in raids that there are upgrades available so it is not a permanent item. Even if some would disagree and say it is THE BEST trinket, its still not that much better than raid trinkets to scrap a max lvl trades skill just for the sake of getting, imo.

 

Fola

I guess I am reaching the conclusion the more I look at it that Alchemy is worth leveling that profession:

HEP (Healing equiv. points)
Pendant of the Violet Eye = 252 (simplified as Gurg pointed out it does have situational benefit over and above)
Alchemist Stone = 343

The only trinket that approaches it in performance for shaman healing is the one off of Illidan (Memento of Tyrande). Its basically a 36% upgrade for the trinket slot versus anything available via casual raiding (TK, EYE, Kara atm).

I guess no to Jewelcrafting leveling as even the Eye of Gruul is not a big downgrade to the Talasite Owl and the Aran trinket is an upgrade

HEP of other trinkets mentioned above for reference
Talasite Owl = 233
Eye of Gruul = 194
Memento of Tyrande = 333

It can be pointed out I suppose that weighting of stat values to calculate HEP could be slightly different I doubt the 36% upgrade gap will change rather significantly. Heck I already have two different enchanting characters, the hunter for the ring enchants first then the shadow priest for the ring enchants (post 1150 shadow, additional spell damage was getting hard to come by).

 

Reservoirdog

I was just wondering where you can find a good reference site for HEP values? I'd really like to look into this value more. Thanks in advance

 

Fola

The Flash Tauren scares me I hope I am not derailing this thread by moving to a discussion about the Shamstats spreadsheet and HEP. I am an EJ fan since we were competing for progression in Naxx days when I was in Paradox, I don't want the banhammer. That being said it is the Shamstats spreadsheet I use for the shaman class, not quite as extensive as the Hunter Spreadsheet (shout out to the work Cheeky did – awesome stuff).

Without further qualifications and minor sucking up here is the link:

Binkenstein Profile, Binkenstein Details - FileFront.com

It’s the Shamstats one (credit to Binkenstein on these forums)

 

• CureFC

Trying to get my guild to back and do Gruul nowadays is harder than pulling teeth so I haven't been able to test this myself, but Eye of Gruul is supposedly much better for us than it is generally made out to be. The napkin math I've seen indicates roughly 30+ mp5 from the proc in chain heal spam situations, in addition to the base 44 healing - the key being a chance for a proc off any jump of chain heal with no internal cooldown. Can anyone that uses/has used an Eye of Gruul comment on its effectiveness in CH spam situations?

I normally roll with an Alchemist Stone and an Essence of the Martyr. The regen from the stone is outstanding and is probably worth levelling alchemy for, imo (of course we've never had Karathress drop a shaman trinket, which might have made me feel differently). The extra stam and int on the stone aren't in and of themselves reasons to grab it, but they are a nice side benefit. I'm with a shadow priest about 95% of the time so I've geared/gemmed/enchanted towards more +heal, hence the Essence. It's a nice boost to my total healing, and I'm able to coordinate the use for larger Earth Shields or occasionally Healing Streams. For fights where I don't have the spriest I use Pendant of the Violet Eye, which I would probably replace with Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker or Eye of Gruul if I could get either to drop (although I'd have to do some testing on the Eye).

I went PMC tailoring to jumpstart raiding, then engi for the goggles, and then alch for the stone though, so I may not be the most objective source for opinions on changing tradeskills. I will say that alch is one of the easiest and cheapest to level up if you go that route, and you only need 350 for the stone.

 

Brayford

I'm certain it has no internal cooldown. It feels like it can proc off of any hit of a chain heal, but I can't confirm that with 110% certainty. I've been using both Eye of Gruul and a Talasite Owl as my trinkets for a few weeks now and they've held up very well for my use. I've swapped to an Essence of the Martyr and Oshungun Relic only to pop out max effectiveness for an Earth Shield, but I'll quickly swap back to my Eye/Owl.

 

Vistol

Speaking of Shaman healing trinkets a lot people have been telling me i should be using 2x Lower city prayer Book (LCPB) vs. 1x LCPB and 1x Auslese's Light Channeler (ALC).

(Yes I know I’m back a bit on progression, but I’m working on it)

The way I see it:

LCPB X2 =140 +heal, and one LCPB use every minute.

LCPB + ALC = 129 +heal, one LCPB cool down, and one ALC cool down every 2 minutes.

ALC cool down = 215 mana every 120 seconds or 1.75 mana/sec (rounding down a little) or a bit better than 8mp5 (again rounding down)

so differencing the set ups it becomes 11+healing vs 8mp5 a clear win for the ALC, even if the ALC is used once every 3 min it still comes out to about 6mp5 and I'm still better off.

Please tell me is my math right and idiots keep talking to me, or is my math wrong and I’m the idiot?

 

Fola

I don't think anyone can honestly say with authority that +11 healing is anywhere near as good as 6-8mp/5. That ratio is not supported by Blizzard (through item level budgeting formulas) or through any theorycrafting kicking around these forums.

If you fit the situation of one Shaman that posted a while back where he had something like 208 mp/5 unbuffed well then maybe that would be a different situation.

I would go with the ACL+LCB combo based on the numbers you provided.

 

Moshne

I used to use the Relic for this as well, until I actually did some math. I now use the Xiri's Gift +dmg trinket for maxing Earth shield.

[Xi'ri's Gift] is click 280 +heal
[Oshu'gun Relic] is 53 passive, 213 click = 266 +heal

While it amounts to almost nothing, it allowed me to stop carrying the Oshugun, as I keep my elemental gear with me all the time anyhow.

 

Brayford

Thanks for pointing that out. I had been keeping around a [Vengeance of the Illidari] for my elemental gear and hadn't though to update to a Xi'ri. I'll probably try to pick up a [Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker] for my second double duty trinket.

 

Bor

I've been thinking about Trinkets and Meta Gems recently, mainly to justify to myself getting a Fathom-Brooch.

I've currently got Pendant of the Violet Eye, Eye of Gruul & Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker. As we all know, the Fathom-Brooch has an internal cooldown. Heres my best/mid/worst case maths for each trinket. I've had to make assumptions on the chain heal jumping or cooldowns, I've used all three and this seems to be the observed behaviour but I've not parsed any logs. e.g. I've seen Eye of Gruul proccing twice in two casts, but given cast time and time lost to movement I wouldn't like to say there is definately no cooldown, similarly I can't believe chain heal doesn't increase Eye of Gruul proc rate, as it seems a very regular occurence.

Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker: 15% chance to restore 335 mana, 45 second internal cooldown, can proc off any chain heal jump.
Worst Case: Healing Wave 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.5 seconds.
335 Mana Regenerated / ( 45 second cooldown + ( 100 % chance / 15 % chance * 3 seconds total cast time ) ) = 5.15 mana per second = 25.77 mp5

Mid Case: Chain Heal 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.25 seconds. Targets hit per cast 2.
335 Mana Regenerated / ( 45 second cooldown + ( 100 % chance / 27.75 % chance * 2.75 seconds total cast time ) ) = 6.1 mana per second = 30.5 mp5

Best Case: Chain Heal 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0 seconds. Targets hit per cast 3.
335 / (45 + ( 100 / 38.59 * 2.5 ) = 6.51 = 32.54 mp5

Eye of Gruul: 2% chance to save up to 450 mana, no cooldown, can proc off any chain heal jump.
Worst Case: Healing Wave 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.5 seconds. 50% mana saved.
225 Mana Regenerated / ( 100 % chance / 2 % chance * 3 seconds total cast time ) ) = 1.5 mana per second = 7.5 mp5

Mid Case: Chain Heal 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.25 seconds. Targets hit per cast 2. 75% mana saved.
337.5 / ( 100 / 3.96 * 2.75 ) = 4.86 = 24.3 mp5

Best Case: Chain Heal 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0 seconds. Targets hit per cast 3. 100% mana saved.
450 / ( 100 / 5.88 * 2.5) = 10.59 = 52.93 mp5

Pendant of the Violet Eye: Stacking bonus of 21mp5 per cast for 20 seconds. 2 minute cooldown. Can't proc off extra chain heal jumps.
Worst Case: Healing Wave 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.5 seconds.
Casts at 3.5 seconds, 6.5 seconds, 9.5 seconds, 12.5 seconds, 15.5 seconds, 18.5 seconds.
Mana regen at 5 seconds (1) = 21, 10 seconds (3) = 63, 15 seconds (4) = 84, 20 seconds (6) = 126. Total = 294 mana / 120 seconds = 2.45 = 12.25 mp5.

Mid Case: Lesser Healing Wave/Totems/Earth Shield/Water Shield 1.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.25 seconds.
Casts at 2 seconds, 3.75 seconds, 5.5 seconds, 7.25 seconds, 9 seconds, 10.75 seconds, 12.5 seconds, 14.25 seconds, 16 seconds, 17.75 seconds, 19 seconds.
Mana regen at 5 (2), at 10 (5), at 15 (8), at 20 (11) = (26) = 546 mana / 120 seconds = 4.55 = 22.75 mp5

Best Case: Lesser Healing Wave/Totems/Earth Shield/Water Shield 1.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.
Casts at 1.5, 3, 4.5, 6, 7.5, 9, 10.5, 12, 13.5, 15, 16.5, 18, 19.5.
Regen at 5 (3), 10 (6), 15 (10), 20 (13) = (32) = 672 / 120 = 5.6 = 28 mp5

A lot of it depends on what you do a resto shaman in whatever raid dungeon you have progressed to and whether you keep up a constant rate of casting as I've not been able to take into account any fights where you stand still and do no healing. I'm sure I must have made a wrong assumption, as these trinkets look awfully good in mid/best cases.


Insightful Earthstorm Diamond: I've been thinking about this gem as basically working the same as an Eye of Gruul but restoring 300 mana not 450, which is basically 2/3rds as good, possibly more if you use a lot of 260 mana per cast Rank 1 Chain Heal. I've not had a T4/T5 helm to test my assumption though. Worst/mid/best should be 5mp5 / 16mp5 / 35mp5. If you put in the value as 30mp5 on a meta gem'd helm it looks a lot better compared to normal helms than if you value the meta slot at something like 20 heal points.

 

• Binkenstein

Hmmm.

Now that I look at it, I think Fathom-Brooch is ~37mp5.

Mana/Internal Cooldown = Mana/Sec
335/45 = 7.44

Mana/Sec * 5 = mp5
7.44 * 5 = 37.2 mp5

There shouldn't be any worst/best case scenario as I find that internal cooldown trinkets tend to proc fairly quickly after their internal cooldown is up.
Pendant works out to be ~27mp5 with 2.5 HW.

The formula from my spread sheet is the following:
=TRUNC(((0.5*(18.5/'Resto HEP'!E13)^2)+(0.5*(18.5/'Resto HEP'!E13))+(20*(18.5/'Resto HEP'!E13))*4.2)/24)
where the cell reference E13 is for the cast speed of Healing Wave. if you use LHW instead, it goes up to 46 mp5

 

Murderbot

From empirical testing using ProcWatch, the Fathom-Brooch typically nets around 27 over the course of an entire raid, with measurements only taken during combat. Sometimes it gets as high as 30, but I've never seen more than that.

The Insightful Earthstorm Diamond has very unpredictable performance. The last time I measured it, over the course of a 3-hour raid I got 0.28 procs per minute of combat, making the meta gem worth about 7 mp5.

http://wow.tachyonsix.com.nyud.net:8...82531SpLuP.png

 

• Binkenstein

Good point. I was never able to get my proc watching addons to work.

 

Chemoshvt

Some hard numbers on Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker - Items - World of Warcraft

35 is probably a little overgenerous but here are WWS's.

Morogrim (26 MP5)
Tanani - WWS

Vashj (28 MP5)
Tanani - WWS

Void Reaver (31 MP5)
Tanani - WWS


It's definitely an excellent trinket considering the piston is only 16 MP5 with a crappy proc effect.

 

thorin5

I'm dumb, please delete this post

 

Naboolou

Figured I would resurrect this thread instead of starting a new one.

I've been spending alot of time working on my resto shaman's gear and I have a couple questions.
First off, this is my alt so I really don't raid unless the guild is short on healers. I raid on my rogue main.

Here's a link to my armory: (just got Shard Virtuous last night, thats why no enchant :P )
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rn&n=Shockster

After reading through the 10 pages of this thread, I noticed alot of talk about the 8/0/53 spec. I know Grug is a big proponent of this spec but my question is whether or not this spec is viable for pvp and arena? Even though I'm probably not going to be seeing Hyjal/BT bosses with this char (guild is currently in ssc/tk), I was thinking Elemental Warding probably wouldn't be a bad idea for bg's and arena. Especially since I seem to have the most trouble dealing with caster nuking. Maybe that dmg reduction would make a difference...maybe not; i really dont know.

Any other advice on the 8/0/53 spec that I could use toward a more pvp/arena oriented build?

Thanks

 

Coriolis

With the 8/0/53 build simply take the 3 points in aggro reducing talent and put them in the one that reduces the time you get locked out by interrupts and voila you have pretty much the optimal pure healing pvp build. I actually raid like that anyways, the only time healers pull aggro in my experience is when something isn't being tanked and in that case I'd rather I pull it with my high hp and armor (and ankh) then a priest.

That is of course for being pretty much focused as a pure healer and being able to raid in the same spec, arguably reduced cooldown on shocks and the like may well be better overall if you have the time for it (perma-lockout your favorite pally with CoT- although of course by doing so you're cutting your own healing in about half).

 

Glandur

I don't have an ALC myself, but from what I can see (wowhead, Thott), the cooldown is actually 3 minutes, not 2 minutes.

New calculation: 215 mana every 180 seconds = 1.19 mana/sec = 5.97 ~ 6 Mp5

It's still a very good trinket for it's level, though. And I completely agree with the sentiment that a LCPB and an ALC is better than two LCPB's.

 

Electrocute

Any resto shaman spreadsheets up and running btw,been loking for one for ages (maybe not looked so very good) but need help finding one.

 

TheSilverHand

1. What are you looking for in such a spreadsheet?
2. Binkerani has one in his signature...

EDIT: To be specific, Binkerani has a spreadsheet to compare different pieces of gear.

 

Electrocute

Just find it useful to have tbh

Thanks for helping me out anyway ;o)

 

• Binkenstein

To be specific, I have three.

Item comparisons, a talent compare (which probably needs to be tweaked/updated), and a third for elemental spell rotations, although that last one is probably irrelevant in this thread