Coriolis

Hmm ok. In that case you could maybe use a /castsequence macro instead, although you'd need to hit your key twice to get disease cleansing or just spam it. Still better then having two keys though. So:

/castsequence Remove Poison, Remove Disease

(For the record I don't remember if those were the right names for the spells). I'll have to try that.

 

Sioned

Sorry I want to go back to revisit the topic of the Eye of Gruul trinket.

So I was looking at the WWS stats page of a guild that has downed Illidan, searching for ways to improve myself as always, and I came across their main resto shammy. This resto shammy is using an Alchemist's Stone and the Eye of Gruul.

Eye of Gruul? What? I remember taking a look at that trinket, even after the change in 2.1, and quickly dismissing it since I already had a Fathom-Brooch and Talasite Owl. What in the world would make this resto shammy, who has access to end game gear, use that trinket? This got me interested.

So: "Each healing spell has a 2% chance to make your next heal cast within 15 sec cost 450 less mana."

So the tooltip has been shown to be wrong. It's not a 2% per cast of a heal spell, but a 2% per effect of heal. So for CH, it'll be 2% each time CH hits or 6% if all three bounces hit.

Earlier Bor posted some calculations for the trinket. For my personal gear I've used rough estimates for my Fathom-Brooch and Talasite Owl.

Fathom-Brooch = ~27-29 mp5
Talasite Owl = ~29 mp5 (after the fix in 2.2)

Bor's calculations for Eye of Gruul:
Worst Case: Healing Wave 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.5 seconds. 50% mana saved.
225 Mana Regenerated / ( 100 % chance / 2 % chance * 3 seconds total cast time ) ) = 1.5 mana per second = 7.5 mp5

Mid Case: Chain Heal 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0.25 seconds. Targets hit per cast 2. 75% mana saved.
337.5 / ( 100 / 3.96 * 2.75 ) = 4.86 = 24.3 mp5

Best Case: Chain Heal 2.5 second cast. Cast lag 0 seconds. Targets hit per cast 3. 100% mana saved.
450 / ( 100 / 5.88 * 2.5) = 10.59 = 52.93 mp5

This calculation does not include staying out of the FSR. Remember folks, if we use Rank 4 of CH or lower, or any healing spell that cost 450 mana or less, it'll extend our time out of the FSR which leads to more mana regen.

I'm not a math wiz, so I was hoping someone here can redo Bor's calculations with the FSR calculated in. I'm basically trying to justify using the Talasite Owl or the Eye of Gruul in CH heavy fights. 50+ mp5 from a trinket just is too good to pass up.

 

Rugrud

I'm using the following macro to ES my focus:
/cast [target=focus, exist, nodead, nomodifier=shift] earthshock (rank 1)
/cast [modifier=shift] earthshock (rank 1)

It allow me to "force" the ES on my actual target rather than the focus if I press shift. Usefull in PVP when you have the mage in focus but want to ES the priest you are targeting...

 

Spazmo

I believe the spell still needs to wait for the server to respond as to whether the target has the debuff on them. So it's not a client-side thing, which means the client doesn't automatically skip the spell which won't work.

 

czokalapik

Few macros i use on my shaman:
to be honest those are only ones i use. i have ES binded to my mouse so i can recast it on Grid, same with NS - mouse click (button 4) and then spell i want on Grid, without any macro.
only macros i use all the time are those 3 above.

And about Sioned's mp5 calculations: Fathom-Brooch gives 35-40mp5 due to proc almost every 40sec (inner cooldown).
Maybe i was lucky, but taking mana gained after few raids it's almost same amount that i've recived from mana spring.

 

Thud00

Its suprising that we dont see more people choosing to maintain the 3TS bonus given that much of the time we are chain healing. There are several fights where you are pretty much assured of getting 3 jumps, gorefiend, bloodboil etc.

Now the CH multiplier is 1.75 without and 2.075 with the 3 TS bonus. Thus you get bigger jumps. Using custom code I measured overhealing in both BT and MH. Its typical to get 50% overheal on the primary target due to FoL spammers, lifebloom ticks etc. However the jumps average only 20% overheal. Therefore we can work out the effective healing not just the total healing.

Without 3TS we get 0.5 + 0.75 *0.8 = x1.1 the full heal on the primary target.
With 3TS we get 0.5 + 1.075 * 0.8 = x1.36 the full heal on the primary target.

So suppose you have 1900 +heal when wearing 3TS. You CH5 on the primary heals for

((833+950)/2 + 87 + 1900 * 5/7) * 1.1 * 1.2 = 3083

(base + maiden trinket + heal * casttime) * purification * improved ch

So we could expect an effective total heal across the 3 jumps of 1.36 * 3083 = 4193.

Now to work out what we need to get that much effective heal without the 3TS.

4193 / 1.1 = 3812. We need to get a heal of 3812 on the primary.

So ((833+950)/2 + 87 + H * 5/7) * 1.1 * 1.2 = 3812

-> H = 2673

2673 - 1900 = 773,

So we can see that the 3TS set bonus is worth 773 +heal in these 3 bounce situations. Thats a huge amount. There is no gear available where the incremental difference in stats can make up for that.

I find in practice the bonus is still worth it even on trash clears where you are getting no jumps or 1 jumps from many of your casts.

 

Nya

I find it weird that you include overhealing as part of your math. If your jumps are overhealing for 20%, then your gain from the 30% bonus from the 3pc T2 would instead become a 4% bonuses, with 26% wasted.

Also, if assigned to raid healing, shouldn't the first target of your chain heal not be your MT (who is the target of FoL and Lifebloom spam)?

 

Thud00

The point about 3TS is that you will get a smaller heal on the primary target due to having to wear gear with less stats but you are going to get bigger jumps. Now you cant realy ignore overheal in a raid situation. The slow cast time on CH gives ample chance for others to land heals, you will get a lot more overheal on the primary target than on the jumps. The jumps are instant. Having measured the overheal on each jump of CH over the instances I am confident that the figures are about right. At 50% overheal on the primary and 20% on the jumps you would see an overheal figure of 37% for CH on meters such as recount. This skewing of the heal in favor of the jumps is a big factor in the calculation.

If however you assumed no overheal at all we can still do the math. So with 1900 +heal in 3TS.

((833+950)/2 + 87 + 1900 * 5/7) * 1.1 * 1.2 = 3083

Total healed across 3 jumps = 3083 * 2.075 = 6397.

Now to calculate what we would need without 3TS. 6397 / 1.75 = 3656.

So ((833+950)/2 + 87 + H * 5/7) * 1.1 * 1.2 = 3656

-> H = 2508

2508 - 1900 = 608

So with no overhealing taken into account at all the 3TS bonus is still worth 608 +heal. Still a huge number.

Not sure I understand this. The 20% overheal on the jumps is an average figure. If the party is 1 hp down you will still get a jump with almost all overheal, if they are 5k down you will get the same jump wiht no overheal.

When raid healing the MT is rarely the primary target. He has lots of heals incomming at all times and Hots on him. His hp situation at the time CH lands will be radicaly different from what it is at the time you start the cast. Sometimes you do target him simply becasue he has lost hp and there is noone else injured. Most of the time you are, by definition raid healing, that means topping up everyone else but the MT. You wont be the only raid healer. There are other shamans chain healing, often picking the same target or thier jumps healing your target. Druids and priests throw Hots around liberaly since they have time to do so while keeping the MT stacked. Paladins too like to throw the odd FoL on injured raid players.

 

kallio

You are my hero, didn't think of that when i was trying to work out a way to swicht Librams for each spell

 

Crawk

Be warned that the downside to using a macro to swap totems is that you can incur a weapon-swap cooldown even if you don't actually get a spellcast if you happen to be out of range. The spellcast won't go off but the swap will.

I tend to just kept the relevant ones on my hotbar and swap when needed - for most fights based on assignment/role I just know what I'm going to be casting 90% of the time, and if I do have to switch roles mid-fight then I just use the hotbar.

 

Teewee

If you use the bracers, belt, and boots, and use TS instead of whats available now, you'll be sacrificing 37 stamina, 25 int, 31 mp5, and 180 +heal. I'm assuming Girdle of Fallen Stars, Howling Wind Bracers, and Stillwater Boots with epic gems.

While 773 +heal is nice, even if it is for one spell and under certain conditions, thats a lot of stats to sacrifice just for a better chain heal. In all fights where I'm spamming chain heal, I am generally tight on mana and that extra mp5 would help a whole lot. Also it's kinda rare to just use chain heal, on many fights I'll need to toss a LHW or two on a caster or a tank just to make sure they get the heal. Also there are times when my chain heal doesn't jump at all, either because other people are topped off before my cast finishes, or the person I'm casting on moves away from the group for some reason. If anything like that happens the bounces, along with the set bonus, are all wasted.

 

Thud00

Its fight specific. The fights it is worth it for are gorefiend, bloodboil and RoS. Try it and see. The other fights I too wear my normal gear for either because you use other heals or you are simply not spamming with 3 jumps.

 

Jezele

Another refinement that I like to use is to /equip my healing mace and shield, and then use /equip macros for my DPS weapon/shield for whenever I use my lightning bolt. Every little bit helps.

 

Trollfather

In my opinion Healing Spring Totem is an absolutely amazing and underrated ability. I'm a moderately geared resto Shaman (about +1300 healing) and stacked with Totem of Wrath my healing spring ticks for around 150 every 2 seconds.

I was in a 5 man with another Sham the other day (Elemental) and we dropped HS at the same time. Ended up being about 220 hp every 2 seconds.

So in terms of mana cost to HP it's pretty stunning. 74 mp to cast (I think) and for me alone (no trinkets) it has the potential to heal the party for 45,000 HP over 2 minutes. Given not everyone will be damaged during that time (hopefully) so you'll rarely achieve that amount but 74 mp for a potential of 45k of healing is stunning. Get a couple of these puppies down and it becomes a solid HOT basically for free.

TF

 

Rugrud

You have to consider the opportunity cost of dropping healing spring. Which is namely, not dropping mana spring.

So that's a net loss of ~40 MP5 (60 after the patch) for every one in the party. If you are in a melee group, that can be ok (if you can sustain not having mana spring yourself), or if there are two shamans in the group. Otherwise, 150 "potential" HP vs 20 "certain" MP for every one isn't really so appealing anymore...

 

Daidalos

You mean wrath of air I assume? Yes Healing stream heals for a decent amount. Its the most efficient heal in the game however if you calculate in the mp5 lost due to mana spring not being down is isn't quite as good. Mana spring is 37.5 mp5 for each person in the group so its something you weight the pros and cons about. For high dmg mana intensive fights I still prefer mana spring. For low dmg esp gradual aoe dmg type fights healing stream is nice. I usually find the mana more usefull but I drop healing stream on archimonde, RoS and maybe a few other fights.

 

Daidalos

Does anyone know how Crystal Spire of Karabor works on multi-hit heals? I was wondering if on chain heal or circle of healing etc how the additional 200 healing works. Does it only proc on the first target hit or can it give the additional 200 on the 2nd or 3rd jump? I guess for circle of healing it could apply to all them making it really amazing.

Also does it count as part of the heal or is it seperate? I was wondering if the first target of the chain heal is below 50% heal do ppl downstream receive 50%, 25% of that or is it like a seperate heal. I was thinking it was a seperate heal and would only hit the first person but I'm curious to know for sure.

 

Naratu

Not sure if this is still the case, as I do not yet have one to test it, but pre-2.2 this is how it worked.

Your heal would heal the target. If the target was STILL under 50% hp, it would give them a seperate heal as listed on the mace proc. It could proc off of all 3 hits of Chain Heal(not sure about CoH/PoH). So if your third CH beam healed someone for 800 and they were still under 50% hp, you'd get an added 200ish heal to appear as a seperate heal on the same person. I'm also pretty sure that it could proc on all 3 targets of your CH if they were all still under 50% after the CH landed. It's real good for small heals, but pretty useless for 2.5 heals.

 

Kirion

42.

 

Gonz

What everyone's take on the new focused mind change for a pve player that does arena semi competitively? I think that it could be real good against mages, rogues, etc... but I don't want to lose something else that is more important. Currently I see my choices as getting rid of Elemental Warding (leaning towards no on this choice), or getting rid of healing grace. I do pull aggro on a lot of trash pulls but usually it is because someone requires a big pull before they have acquired enough threat. Any input on the new 30 percent focused mind would be great!

 

Coriolis

If you pvp, I'd just drop the -aggro talent. In my experience any competent tank (especially one with an ES on him), can hold healing aggro by looking at the mob funny.

 

Tagamogi

Agreed with that. I've been trying to figure out the best situations for casting healing stream vs mana spring, and I'm still undecided. I usually use healing stream for all trash fights since nobody should be running low enough on mana during trash for the extra mp/5 from mana spring to matter. For boss fights, it gets more complicated - how many casters are in my group? Do the casters use mana fast enough that more mana is going to help their healing/dps output?

For fun, I ran through the actual healing done by my healing stream totem during a particular Morogrim fight. (For those who care, here's the WWS Source, link expires Oct 12, sorry.) Morogrim strikes me as a great fight for casting healing stream - everyone in the party is going to take regular earthquake damage and they can be be easily patched up by healing stream without causing murloc aggro for any player.

Over the course of the entire Morogrim fight, I spent 380 mana total to redrop healing stream for my group while the totem healed us for 108,302 health. That means it healed approximiately 285 health for every mana point I spent - that's an incredibly efficient as far as my personal healing is concerned. For comparison, my direct heals during that fight healed about 7.5 hit points per mana.

If I had cast mana spring 4 times that fight instead of healing stream, I would have gotten 4 x 60 x 15 = 3600 mana from it (5520 mana after the 2.3 mana spring buff). At 7.5 hp/mana, that's worth 27,000 healing (or 41,400 healing after 2.3) *if* I had actually run out of mana and been unable to cast without that extra mana.

If I'd been in a party with 4 other healers and we'd all run out of mana and we'd all had about 7.5 hp/m for our direct heals, a mana spring totem would have allowed us to heal a total of 27,000 * 5 = 135,000 more healing which would be more healing than my healing stream totem did. After the patch, the difference becomes even more pronounced with 207,000 hp from direct heals aided by mana spring vs 108,000 hp from healing stream.

These numbers would make it appear that even in a heavy aoe fight mana spring is more beneficial than healing stream, but I'm unsure whether mana spring is actually worth it if all party members are able to maintain adequate mana via other means. Going back to my Morogrim fight example, my party consisted of:
- warrior tanking Morogrim, not a mana user
- warlock who lifetapped 19 times and got more actual mana benefit from healing stream than he would have gotten from mana spring
- paladin tanking murlocs that never came close to running out of mana
- paladin - flasked and drank 2 mana potions during the fight
- me - flasked and drank 3 mana potions during the fight

As far as I know, neither the mana-potion drinking paladin nor I actually ran out of mana and were unable to heal, so if I had cast mana spring instead of healing stream during that fight, it's well possible that both of us would have done exactly the same amount of healing while saving 1-2 mana potions each.

So, after all this, I'm still undecided what to cast. I usually do some very fuzzy calculation of likely incoming damage to the party vs likely mana usage and then go with whatever seems better for the situation.

 

• Binkenstein

Healing Stream can be very very useful in fights like VR if you're with a melee group. The only problem is you tend to run out of mana faster without MS

iirc I used it on one fight and it healed ~50k

 

◊ Gwaihir

What do you guys think about the 12 int + chance to restore mana on cast meta gem?

I was looking back over a few of our WWS from full clear nights, and lately I noticed just how abysmal it's proc rate has been for me. As an example, in a full clear of SSC, I got 17 procs, compared to 89 for one of the paladins. Is this thing just too subject to the RNG, or is the paladin chain FoL healing style just that much more suited to the mechanics of the gem (2% proc rate with no internal CD? I think).

I guess any debate on the thing is almost moot, since the 26 heal/-2% threat gem is so anti-Royal Nightseye/Shadowsong Amethyst, which leaves the only other real meta gem to use as the half cast time gem, or the 18 stam/stun resist.

 

• Binkenstein

The cast one = fairly useless.
Heal/-threat = can't stack mp5 = fairly useless at the moment (may change with 2.3)
Stam/stun resist = if you and your tanks do your job, you shouldn't get hit/stunned